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Thankyou Steve Maskery

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Thankyou Steve Maskery

Postby Andyp » 22 May 2019, 10:20

I do not know if Steve ever frequents these parts but I thought I would show my appreciation anyway.

I first read Steve talk about this device many many years ago. He did not invent it of course but he did bring in to my attention and I have never forgotten how easy it is to make and how accurate too.
I have never felt the need for one before but just recently it was the ideal tool. Took me 30 mins to make.

I am sure you lot know what it is ;)
IMG_0631.JPG
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IMG_0630.JPG
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I need to shorten the bolt but it works just fine as is
I do not think therefore I do not am.

cheers
Andy
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Re: Thankyou Steve Maskery

Postby TrimTheKing » 22 May 2019, 10:51

I can't remember what it's called, but it's for squaring up a frame. Steve used one for sorting an issue with his workshop doors.
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Re: Thankyou Steve Maskery

Postby Steve Maskery » 22 May 2019, 11:26

Hey, Andy! Great to see. I call it the Square of Thales.

I also did a YT jobbie of it recently:
[youtube]0j2g0FtvkBE[/youtube]

Enjoy
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Re: Thankyou Steve Maskery

Postby Andyp » 22 May 2019, 11:47

Great Vid Steve.
Pleased to see you up and running in the new workshop
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Re: Thankyou Steve Maskery

Postby Woodbloke » 22 May 2019, 13:26

Having seen Steve's video, I made one last week and it's spot on accurate - Rob
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Re: Thankyou Steve Maskery

Postby Woodster » 22 May 2019, 18:55

Nice one Steve :text-goodpost:
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Re: Thankyou Steve Maskery

Postby Malc2098 » 22 May 2019, 19:41

Woodster wrote:Nice one Steve :text-goodpost:


:text-+1:
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Re: Thankyou Steve Maskery

Postby fiveeyes » 24 May 2019, 00:43

That Mr Maskery is quite the teacher.
Hey Steve,they work in the colonies too!
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Re: Thankyou Steve Maskery

Postby StevieB » 24 May 2019, 08:52

Given this works due to the arms being the exact length for 90 degrees, presumably one arm (the one that goes into a corner) being twice the length of the other two arms would give 45 degrees and 2/3rds would give 60 degrees?
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Re: Thankyou Steve Maskery

Postby Woodbloke » 24 May 2019, 09:37

StevieB wrote:Given this works due to the arms being the exact length for 90 degrees, presumably one arm (the one that goes into a corner) being twice the length of the other two arms would give 45 degrees and 2/3rds would give 60 degrees?

Watch Steve's video and all the sums is explained - Rob
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Re: Thankyou Steve Maskery

Postby Cabinetman » 21 Dec 2020, 17:54

I thought I’d knock up a cheap and cheerful one this afternoon, easy to get all the arms the same length by screwing it together and then making the long bits same length as the short bit when it’s turned round each time, got that bit right. But it wasn’t right, turned the small arm to stick out one way and it wasn’t quite 90° turned it the other way and it was slightly more than 90°
I drilled the hole in the centre of the width of the rail by eye, normally my eye is pretty spot-on. But I must’ve been such a small amount out and it’s thrown the whole thing straight in the bin!
So there is a lesson for anybody else wanting to do it, absolute accuracy on centring the hole gentlemen and possibly ladies. Ian
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Re: Thankyou Steve Maskery

Postby Steve Maskery » 21 Dec 2020, 17:59

Ah yes, accuracy is paramount. The stock must be straight and the pivot point accurate. I think any errors would be magnified the smaller it is.
But don't be disheartened, once you get one you are happy with you'll wonder how you ever managed without one (or several).
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Re: Thankyou Steve Maskery

Postby novocaine » 21 Dec 2020, 18:19

as the center is based on the tips, surely a trim up to bring the tip to the right point and sliver removed from the offending side with a good plane is all that is warranted to bring it in to alignment?
Carbon fibre is just corduroy for cars.
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Re: Thankyou Steve Maskery

Postby Cabinetman » 21 Dec 2020, 18:25

Hi Steve, you’re absolutely right it must’ve been less than half a millimetre out but that transferred to at least 2 mm at the tips, I shall start again, I don’t let little things like that stop me, I also thought it would work nicely with a Chicago bolt instead of a screw, just couldn’t quite find one the right size. Ian
Hi Novocain, well that’s what I thought as well I fiddled with it for 20 minutes trying to get it right but the errors were compounding themselves so I’m just going to start again.
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Re: Thankyou Steve Maskery

Postby Trevanion » 21 Dec 2020, 18:47

That's why you make it from Aluminium!

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Re: Thankyou Steve Maskery

Postby Mike G » 21 Dec 2020, 19:43

Steve Maskery wrote:...... The stock must be straight.......


I beg to demur. So long as the points and the pivot are all in exactly the right place, the stuff in between can be any old shape (so long as they stay out of the way of whatever is being measured).
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Re: Thankyou Steve Maskery

Postby RogerS » 21 Dec 2020, 23:41

Cabinetman wrote:I thought I’d knock up a cheap and cheerful one this afternoon, easy to get all the arms the same length by screwing it together and then making the long bits same length as the short bit when it’s turned round each time, got that bit right. But it wasn’t right, turned the small arm to stick out one way and it wasn’t quite 90° turned it the other way and it was slightly more than 90°
I drilled the hole in the centre of the width of the rail by eye, normally my eye is pretty spot-on. But I must’ve been such a small amount out and it’s thrown the whole thing straight in the bin!
So there is a lesson for anybody else wanting to do it, absolute accuracy on centring the hole gentlemen and possibly ladies. Ian


:eusa-doh: Ian, you are The Man ! I couldn't work put why my one wasn't working properly. I got so fixated making the ends equal, totally forgot about the centring. :oops:
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Re: Thankyou Steve Maskery

Postby Cabinetman » 22 Dec 2020, 01:37

Mike G wrote:
Steve Maskery wrote:...... The stock must be straight.......


I beg to demur. So long as the points and the pivot are all in exactly the right place, the stuff in between can be any old shape (so long as they stay out of the way of whatever is being measured).


You are right of course Mike, but it also depends on the triangulation of the three points meeting exactly at the pivot point, mine was a little off and it sent the whole thing skewwiff. Another way to look at it is, on the long arm if you were to draw a line between the two points the pivot point should be on that line mine wasn’t it was half a millimetre off to one side, so when the small arm (which can point in either direction ) is extended it’s half a millimetre short on one side and half a millimetre too long on the other, I suspect that my central bar wasn’t quite straight either which exacerbated the problem. So it’s all a case of it being exactly right, but a wonderful bit of kit when all is correct I’m sure. Ian
Roger I feel for you, you and I were working at the same time and scratching our heads and obviously getting nowhere very fast ha ha
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Re: Thankyou Steve Maskery

Postby Mike G » 22 Dec 2020, 08:46

I've said it before, but it's worth repeating......the best way to make one of these is to make the short arm first, fix it in place on the long arm, and use the point on the short arm to mark the ends of the long arm. No measuring.
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Thankyou Steve Maskery

Postby TrimTheKing » 22 Dec 2020, 12:50

Mike G wrote:I've said it before, but it's worth repeating......the best way to make one of these is to make the short arm first, fix it in place on the long arm, and use the point on the short arm to mark the ends of the long arm. No measuring.


That’s what he’s already said he did Mike, but the issue isn’t with the pivot point along the length, but the centring of the pivot across the width of the long piece that he got wrong.

To remedy this I guess he could have just taken a bit more material off the ‘fat’ side until it was centred...
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Re: Thankyou Steve Maskery

Postby Andyp » 22 Dec 2020, 13:30

Either:-
I don't understand the problem (highly likely)
or my square is not as accurate as I thought ( quite possibly )

IIRC this was the method I used

Take a stick. cut a little more than one third of it off. Make a hole in the long piece roughly in the middle. Make a hole roughly in the end of the short piece. Attach the two pieces together with a nut and bolt. The short piece because it was more than one third of the original stick will be longer, when swivelled, than each end of the long stick. Cut the points of the short piece and one end of the long at the same time. Now swivel the short piece to the other end of the long piece and use that as a pattern to cut the other point of the long piece. Et voila.

Now I can see if the hole is not exactly in the middle (across the width) of the long piece than the square will only be accurate on one side of the long piece but that would be easy to work with surely.

If I have this right I will be amazed but I ready to climb back in my hole if not.
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cheers
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Re: Thankyou Steve Maskery

Postby spb » 22 Dec 2020, 13:38

Andyp wrote:Take a stick. cut a little more than one third of it off. Make a hole in the long piece roughly in the middle. Make a hole roughly in the end of the short piece. Attach the two pieces together with a nut and bolt. The short piece because it was more than one third of the original stick will be longer, when swivelled, than each end of the long stick. Cut the points of the short piece and one end of the long at the same time. Now swivel the short piece to the other end of the long piece and use that as a pattern to cut the other point of the long piece. Et voila.


The only change I'd make would be to cut the first end as you describe, but then use the point of the short piece to draw an arc across the other end of the long piece. Then take a straightedge from the point you just cut on the long piece, through the centre of the pivot, and mark the intersection with the arc you drew. Cut your last point exactly there.

Alternatively, mark a straight line along the length of the long piece before cutting anything, and be sure to drill your pivot hole and cut both points along it. Either way, the important thing is that the centre of the pivot and the two points are all in a perfect straight line.

As an aside, if the pivot is offset from the line between the two points, you'll still have a device that will measure an exact angle; it just won't be 90 degrees.
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Re: Thankyou Steve Maskery

Postby Mike G » 22 Dec 2020, 14:23

TrimTheKing wrote:
Mike G wrote:I've said it before, but it's worth repeating......the best way to make one of these is to make the short arm first, fix it in place on the long arm, and use the point on the short arm to mark the ends of the long arm. No measuring.


That’s what he’s already said he did Mike,......


I was making a general point about building these things, not commenting on the inaccurate one, because Ian knew exactly what he'd done wrong and what the remedy was.
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Re: Thankyou Steve Maskery

Postby Cabinetman » 22 Dec 2020, 14:49

spb wrote:
Andyp wrote:Take a stick. cut a little more than one third of it off. Make a hole in the long piece roughly in the middle. Make a hole roughly in the end of the short piece. Attach the two pieces together with a nut and bolt. The short piece because it was more than one third of the original stick will be longer, when swivelled, than each end of the long stick. Cut the points of the short piece and one end of the long at the same time. Now swivel the short piece to the other end of the long piece and use that as a pattern to cut the other point of the long piece. Et voila.


The only change I'd make would be to cut the first end as you describe, but then use the point of the short piece to draw an arc across the other end of the long piece. Then take a straightedge from the point you just cut on the long piece, through the centre of the pivot, and mark the intersection with the arc you drew. Cut your last point exactly there.

Alternatively, mark a straight line along the length of the long piece before cutting anything, and be sure to drill your pivot hole and cut both points along it. Either way, the important thing is that the centre of the pivot and the two points are all in a perfect straight line.

As an aside, if the pivot is offset from the line between the two points, you'll still have a device that will measure an exact angle; it just won't be 90 degrees.

Absolutely right SPB, exact angle haha I think your 2nd to last paragraph is the easiest way to get it right with the straight line and all points being on it. Ian
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Re: Thankyou Steve Maskery

Postby Andyp » 22 Dec 2020, 17:05

Ok having checked my square it is only accurate on one side of the long piece. I checked it on a door frame with my other two metal squares and a bit of 3,4,5 trig.

For anyone else who has to see a graphic of the problem in order to fully understand here is a hastily drawn iPad sketch which in itself may not be to scale but does demonstrate the problem clearly, I think.

F9E8316B-79A2-4146-881B-DA289AA6B2BA.png
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