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Elizabethan/ Jacobean dining suite photos.

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Elizabethan/ Jacobean dining suite photos.

Postby Mike G » 11 Jan 2016, 20:30

Just dreaming about the days when my building project is over, and we actually have a dining room again. I would like to make an oak dining suite in Tudor/ Stuart style, but with less heavy carving, and much less turning, than I find in many images on t'internetthingy. Does anyone have any images that might help me?
Last edited by Mike G on 11 Jan 2016, 21:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Elizabthean/ Jacobean dining suite photos.

Postby Andyp » 11 Jan 2016, 21:10

What elements of the period are you keen on?

One table that has always stuck in my mind since I saw it about 30 years oak is the table in the dining hall at Beaulieu Palace (of motor museum fame)

I remember it being of elm but oak I am sure would do.

Here is the best image I could find online
Image

As you can see simple construction. 3 Large planks run the length of the top which sits on. On thick heavy solid legs and stretchers. Not entirely sure if this falls under Tudor/Stuart and I do not like the chairs. I am sure they were not there when I was.
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Re: Elizabthean/ Jacobean dining suite photos.

Postby Mike G » 11 Jan 2016, 21:17

I wouldn't want to drop one of those boards on my toe!

Love the table.......but the table is the easy bit, really. I'm more bothered about the chairs.
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Re: Elizabethan/ Jacobean dining suite photos.

Postby Robert » 11 Jan 2016, 23:29

No help but I was at beaulieu earlier last year

A picture I took...
Image

maybe a sideboard to go with it ?

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Re: Elizabethan/ Jacobean dining suite photos.

Postby Pinch » 12 Jan 2016, 10:18

Mike, I know a pretty good maker if you need one. ;)

That would be right up my street - I could make you a right corker of a suite 8-)
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Re: Elizabthean/ Jacobean dining suite photos.

Postby Wizard9999 » 12 Jan 2016, 10:23

Andyp wrote:Not entirely sure if this falls under Tudor/Stuart and I do not like the chairs. I am sure they were not there when I was.


I was there last summer and I can recall there being a story about that table and chairs, they certainly didn't come as a set. Now if only my old brain could dig out what it was... :?

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Re: Elizabethan/ Jacobean dining suite photos.

Postby 9fingers » 12 Jan 2016, 14:32

If you visit London Mike, then there is this

http://www.geffrye-museum.org.uk/collec ... 7&index=14

in the Geffrye museum. Also there are some on the V&A website. Might give you some seating ideas from the period?

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Re: Elizabethan/ Jacobean dining suite photos.

Postby Mike G » 12 Jan 2016, 17:55

Pinch wrote:Mike, I know a pretty good maker if you need one. ;)

That would be right up my street - I could make you a right corker of a suite 8-)


:lol: I know a pretty good one too............me. The "pretty good" one you know is a damn sight better than "pretty good". I wouldn't mind seeing your sketches for such a suite.
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Re: Elizabethan/ Jacobean dining suite photos.

Postby Mike G » 12 Jan 2016, 17:57

9fingers wrote:If you visit London Mike, then there is this

http://www.geffrye-museum.org.uk/collec ... 7&index=14

in the Geffrye museum. Also there are some on the V&A website. Might give you some seating ideas from the period?

Bob


The Geffrye Museum has just gone close to the top of my "must see" list. Thanks Bob.
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Re: Elizabethan/ Jacobean dining suite photos.

Postby kirkpoore1 » 12 Jan 2016, 19:03

Mike:

I think you'll find that most surviving 16th/17th century chairs are big and heavy because that's what would last 500 years. As an alternative, look for paintings from the period. I frequently go to the Web Gallery of Art, which has a searchable database of images:

http://www.wga.hu/

Now back to the Geffrye chair:
Image

I think if you left the armrests off for the side chairs, and went with either an open frame back or multiple panels with only the topped one carved you could lighten and simplify the design sufficiently. This has a flat seat, which may not be as comfortable as a contoured seat.

I really don't like those chairs at Beaulieu.

Peter Follansbee might have 17th century chair designs too, though he goes all out on the carving and you probably won't want to do that: https://pfollansbee.wordpress.com/

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Re: Elizabethan/ Jacobean dining suite photos.

Postby Mike G » 12 Jan 2016, 20:26

Thanks for that Kirk. These are more what I have in mind:

Image

However, there is too much turning, and I might want to add a dentil-type decorative motif to the top of the back. I'd probably want to make the carvers taller rather than wider in comparison with the ordinary chairs, and either have a rush seat or a cushion tied on.
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Re: Elizabethan/ Jacobean dining suite photos.

Postby DaveL » 12 Jan 2016, 21:02

Mike, you do remember that you are always welcome to pop over and use my lathe, when you make the chair spindles, only condition is you leave the shavings for my wood burner.
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Re: Elizabethan/ Jacobean dining suite photos.

Postby Mike G » 12 Jan 2016, 21:34

Talking of which, I have need for 4 or 5 little turned oak pegs, Dave. I'll give you a ring when I've drawn them.
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Re: Elizabethan/ Jacobean dining suite photos.

Postby Rod » 13 Jan 2016, 00:22

Image

Image

Image

Image

Or Jaycee's take on it:

Image

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Re: Elizabethan/ Jacobean dining suite photos.

Postby kirkpoore1 » 13 Jan 2016, 04:38

Mike G wrote:Thanks for that Kirk. These are more what I have in mind:

Image

However, there is too much turning, and I might want to add a dentil-type decorative motif to the top of the back. I'd probably want to make the carvers taller rather than wider in comparison with the ordinary chairs, and either have a rush seat or a cushion tied on.


Those are much nicer. I think if you dumped most of the turning, and went with a simple beading along the the straight members, you could make them simpler and yet avoid wide flat surfaces which look too plain.

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Re: Elizabethan/ Jacobean dining suite photos.

Postby Mike G » 13 Jan 2016, 09:54

kirkpoore1 wrote:......Those are much nicer. I think if you dumped most of the turning, and went with a simple beading along the the straight members, you could make them simpler and yet avoid wide flat surfaces which look too plain.


I was thinking of some bold chamfers with some nice chamfer stops in place of most of the turnings, and maybe something like this at the top:

Image

I want them to look busy, but not too heavy. Maybe I'd pierce the rear panel to lighten the look up a bit.

A lot of the chairs from that period seem to be very upright, with straight backs, so I might depart from that a bit with a more relaxed geometry.
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Re: Elizabethan/ Jacobean dining suite photos.

Postby Mike G » 13 Jan 2016, 09:55

Rod wrote:......
Or Jaycee's take on it:.......


Jaycee?

What is that book, Rod?
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Elizabethan/ Jacobean dining suite photos.

Postby Rod » 13 Jan 2016, 10:13

Jaycee - English furniture Co (Brighton) but no longer. Stuff available S/H

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/252245039487

Charles Hayward - Period Furniture Designs
Charles Hayward - English Period Furniture

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Re: Elizabethan/ Jacobean dining suite photos.

Postby Rod » 13 Jan 2016, 11:01

Here's another of our chairs - not Jaycee.

Image

Seeing the eBay receipt, forgot how expensive this stuff was back in the 70/80's - though we did buy it in the Sales.
Not to everybody's taste these days but we still like it

Image

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Re: Elizabethan/ Jacobean dining suite photos.

Postby Mike G » 13 Jan 2016, 11:09

Expensive? But Rod.........you could make all that stuff yourself.
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Re: Elizabethan/ Jacobean dining suite photos.

Postby Rod » 13 Jan 2016, 11:29

Not then Mike - no workshop only a Workmate, a Stanley No 4 and a few other DIY tools plus two young daughters!
For some reason we kept the cars in the garage in those days?

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Re: Elizabethan/ Jacobean dining suite photos.

Postby TrimTheKing » 13 Jan 2016, 14:02

Rod

70's/80's eBay receipt...? Really?

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Re: Elizabethan/ Jacobean dining suite photos.

Postby Rod » 13 Jan 2016, 14:25

Ok I should have said the original purchase receipt shown on eBay.

Chairs discounted to £315 each, carvers £400 ish and that was probably 30yrs ago?

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Re: Elizabethan/ Jacobean dining suite photos.

Postby TrimTheKing » 13 Jan 2016, 14:35

Rod wrote:Ok I should have said the original purchase receipt shown on eBay.

Chairs discounted to £315 each, carvers £400 ish and that was probably 30yrs ago?

Rod


Ahhhhhh that makes sense. You really threw me then! :D

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Re: Elizabethan/ Jacobean dining suite photos.

Postby kirkpoore1 » 13 Jan 2016, 17:24

Mike G wrote:A lot of the chairs from that period seem to be very upright, with straight backs, so I might depart from that a bit with a more relaxed geometry.


I think that a tilted back one of the major improvements in comfort made during the evolution of chairs. You may want to try sitting in various chairs and then measure the angle to get some guidance. I've had good luck with a 14 degree angle, but that's on relatively low backed chairs. I think it likely that the angle for you would be less.

In your illustration, were you talking about the post tops, above the rail? Personally, I've found that those angled cuts look pretty clunky on square or rectangular cross section posts. But that's just my opinion. Maybe a full size mockup would help in this area.

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