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Dave's Shed project (progress)

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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby Mike G » 28 Aug 2016, 20:02

Option 3. Seriously.

Get yourself some scraps of lead to use as packers. It might be easier to cut your joists in half, too, so that the central cut-out is only 2 saw cuts, rather than a whole lot of housing-out. Cut your joists all the same, and pack with the lead. Minor adjustments are my tapping the top of the joist with a hammer, which squishes the lead a little.

If you don't want to do this, then place temporary packers under each outer end of each joist, say 2x2, and then using a scrap of 2x2 you can quickly mark up the cut-out for your central support. Rough out the bulk of the waste with a jigsaw, and finish with a chisel (it will help if you mark both sides of the joists).

Definitely don't forgo the central PCC lintel.
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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby ScotlandtheDave » 28 Aug 2016, 21:03

Mike G wrote:Option 3. Seriously.
Get yourself some scraps of lead to use as packers.


Thanks both for your suggestions, the lead trick is a great idea Mike.

I had considered cutting the joist but didn't want to introduce an uneven joint in the floor and the packers I have are plastic, so as hard to get right as cutting it dead.

I should have thought of using scrap as I jacked up the joist on 4*2 for my fatty test and could use another piece to transfer the marks. Sometimes the simple solutions are the hardest to see!


I have a route forward again, many thanks :)
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Re: Dave's Shed project (Flooring)

Postby ScotlandtheDave » 30 Aug 2016, 20:59

Following the lead (pun intended) offered above, i set about the floor joists. I purchased a cheap jigsaw from Screwfix and a pack of good Bosch blades and left my Darwin award-winning depth stop alone :)

Levelling them all across two axes and 5m will be fun, but here's last nights progress (DPC folded out of the way, not missing :) )

Image

I dont know about you guys, but i've really noticed the nights are drawing in now. Its unworkable after about 8pm and by 2030 its properly dark. We're sliding into autumn :(

I'll have to move my 11mm OSB for a record 4th time this weekend to finish the floor, so leaving that for a full day. I've also started my insect mesh so some pics in daylight to delight you all soon!

Cheers
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Re: Dave's Shed project (Flooring)

Postby Andyp » 31 Aug 2016, 07:15

ScotlandtheDave wrote:
I dont know about you guys, but i've really noticed the nights are drawing in now. Its unworkable after about 8pm and by 2030 its properly dark. We're sliding into autumn :(

Cheers


Yep, I was sweeping leaves off the lawn yesterday. :(
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cheers
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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby Dan0741 » 03 Sep 2016, 22:25

Great progress Dave.

The insulation looks perfect, its quite satisfying isn't it!

I purchased some cheap work-lights from toolstation for inside work before the full elec installation. They were great and made the evenings more workable. Only cost me 30 odd quid. :D
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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby Crispylettuce » 03 Sep 2016, 22:58

.. Almost there!
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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby ScotlandtheDave » 06 Sep 2016, 21:10

Well, never in the field of amateur joinery has someone obsessed with accuracy been humbled by something so little:
Image

After spending almost all of Saturday trying to figure out why nothing on the floor would match up using string lines, i bit the bullet and purchased the Bosch levelling laser line. When i first fired it up things were looking good:

Image

However, my smugness was short-lived :(

10mm low at front right corner (and not plumb)
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20 :o mm low at the back right corner:
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not looking too bad at back left corner
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finally, a corner thats almost ok!
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I realised that trying to find the "level" with all the joists still in was proving difficult, so i cleaned out the space and built myself a wee makeshift tripod to ensure the height stayed consistent over 360 degrees.
Image

two rounds with the laser at 2 different heights confirmed my fears. I still dont know how its possible that the levels can be so far off, but i can only put it down to:

1. The groundworks are not level
2. The PCC's have widely varying manufacturing tolerances (i'm pretty certain of this) but really - 20mm over 2.5m?
3. My cutting was off (I dont think this can be the case, because the level is off at the sole plate so its obviously before my cuts started)

Its very frustrating to say the least. The building looks like it bends outwards from the middle, but there is not a discernible gap anywhere and all my door openings are within 1-2mm square, so its not sagging as far as i can see. I just dont know.

Anyway, i had a few drinks on Saturday night :obscene-drinkingcheers: and Sunday was a write off because i just didn't have the mental capacity to think clearly, so on Monday night i decided i only really had two options - make the floor fit the building regardless of level, or make the floor level regardless of the building. I've chosen the latter.

What this means is that the floor will slope "up" towards the left of the building (in reality the building actually slopes down to meet it). Therefore i had to drop the level to such an extent that i wouldn't leave the top of the floor exposed above the door threshold at the left side. The upshot of this is the right hand door threshold will be at least 10mm higher than the floor level, leaving a slight step into that space.

Its hardly the end of the world because I can plane the threshold down a bit if it really annoys me and at the rear of the building the floor level ultimately doesn't matter. it will also be very difficult to spot once the walls are clad, but it still really bugs me :)

The other knock-on that i'm expecting is the walls being off-plumb will make the interior cladding fun, especially if i have to cut off-square.

In hindsight my decision not to lay a concrete base and either lay a brick plinth or some other arrangement is probably now my biggest regret so far. The solution as it is has cost as much, if not more, than a concrete floor and the benefits are clearly not there. I also wish i had paid a lot more attention to setting the levels / plumb when installing the framing, but the saga with the roof joists explains that one.

Anyway, its not like i'll be building another shed soon (hopefully) so i'd best make the best job i can of this one. To that end I've set my levels inside the building and am now busy getting the joists truly level across both axes, so i can clad the interior and then lay the floor.

I'm off for a dram.
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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby Dan0741 » 06 Sep 2016, 22:50

Dave - I had times like this. My principal regret is the roof slating. Don't sweat it. I know its frustrating when you have put all the effort into accuracy, but im not sure it will actually make all that much difference to your use of the building. Put this bit behind you and move on, in no time you won't even notice matey. ;)

Learning the tolerance to live happily with an aspect of my build that I know is wrong but is too expensive/disproportionate to put right has been a good lesson to me! :twisted:

Really good progress recently - well done.
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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby ScotlandtheDave » 07 Sep 2016, 01:39

Dan0741 wrote:I know its frustrating...but im not sure it will actually make all that much difference to your use of the building. Put this bit behind you and move on

Really good progress recently - well done.


Hi Dan, thanks for your support. You are dead right, nobody will notice the floor and the reality is it's not that big a deal, I'm just a bit baffled by it at the mo, it certainly has me scratching my head at how it's possible!

Luckily it will only cost me an extra joists worth of wood as I correct for errors. Better that than find out when trying to lay the floor though. As a consolation I checked our house walls for plumb and they were off too, so even the pros don't always get it right!

Onwards and upwards :)
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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby Andyp » 07 Sep 2016, 06:43

I wonder how many off us have perfectly level floors. I have never bothered to measure mine.
Making sure the assembly working surfaces are true is propably more important. IIRC Paul's, (Pinch's) workshop is so uneven he built a perfectly level platform for final assembly, visible in the stair alterations thread.
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cheers
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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby Mike G » 07 Sep 2016, 07:43

I survey buildings all the time, and finding a room which is rectilinear is extremely rare. The diagonal measurements I take are the most important ones of the lot. Ask a kitchen fitter how many walls he has ever seen which are true. The thing is, a bricklayer can easily get a very true wall, but then some guy comes along and smears a liquid over the whole thing, with no reference points and no way of knowing the thickness he is applying.

Don't worry about the walls. They are of no consequence. The reason I apply the cladding internally immediately is to pull everything into square, which automatically makes all the walls vertical.
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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby Pinch » 07 Sep 2016, 08:35

Dave, my workshop floor is 300mm out over 9M. :lol:
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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby ScotlandtheDave » 08 Sep 2016, 07:15

Mike G wrote:Don't worry about the walls. They are of no consequence. The reason I apply the cladding internally immediately is to pull everything into square, which automatically makes all the walls vertical.


Yes, in hindsight this would have solved a few problems before they cropped up!

Pinch wrote:Dave, my workshop floor is 300mm out over 9M. :lol:

That definitely makes me feel a bit better
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Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby ScotlandtheDave » 15 Sep 2016, 21:51

I'll post a progress update in a wee while as I've moved on a bit with the build. For now though, a bit of advice on another boo-boo I've made.

I was fixing my battens tonight for the cladding and managed to put two screws through the DPC whilst screwing the batten down at the very bottom of the sole plate. I completely forgot that the DPC was even there and screwed it straight through. I am in two minds about whether to remove the screws and try and patch the DPC and the vapour membrane or just leave it as it is. Unfortunately this occurred at the back of the shed so even though I'll be adding some guttering there is a possibility that this area could see more water than the rest of the building. So the question really is whether I should remove the screws and try and make good or just leave it and hope for the best. I am erring towards sorting it although I don't want to make things worse.
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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby Tusses » 16 Sep 2016, 17:37

I don't know what the correct fix is, but could you take the screws out, fill the hole with silicone or similar, and screw back down ? Kind of like how a felt roof seals itself when you nail it on
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Re: Dave's Shed project (Flooring, wrapping, internal claddi

Postby ScotlandtheDave » 18 Sep 2016, 22:00

I've made a bit of progress here, so time to share with you all.

Following the watershed moment with the floor levels, i got on with fixing the floor to itself and to the building.

First things first, the established ritual of getting kit out to start. I'm always flabbergasted at how long this takes, both setting up and clearing down. Not to mention the endless ritual of misplaced tools!
Image

I had a floor level to work to now, so it was a case of fitting dwangs and getting the levels right. I had to scrap two joists at the left side because the cuts were too far off and would have required too much packing to make right, so i started at the left side with an edge piece. In a remarkable piece of foresight i figured I’d have the secure the dwangs before fitting it :)
Image

I had loads of screws to use, so set about cutting the dwangs to length and fixing with screws. It took a bit of time to get the widths correct, but a couple of clamps and my ever trusty laser measurer and progress was good:
Image

After a few hours i had the floor braced and i felt pretty good about it - it was rock solid and levels were good. I used most of the remainder of the screws to secure the joists to the sole plate and it’s absolutely rock solid, which is great. The best bit is i was able to "test" the levels using 2x11mm OSB offcuts to check FFL (Thanks Mike ;)) and they are bang on - just below the door threshold.

I've just priced 22mm T+G ply vs chipboard the price difference is quite staggering - 3x the price for ply. However, I've plumped for ply because I’m only wanting to do this once!

Anyway, back to the build. With a head of steam up now and my OSB at risk from the elements whilst stored outside, i decided to move it for the last time into its final resting place. it was relatively straightforward - a case of cutting to height then cutting to width. Progress was again pretty swift:
Image

My supplier could only supply 1200mm OSB, but I’d spaced joists for 1220mm. This wasn't a huge issue, i used their OSB for the bulk of the stuff that’s not full width and bought 3x 1220mm sheets from Wickes. The sheets are noticeably different colour in the pic. In a piece of good fortune, the non-plumb walls weren't as bad as i feared. However, in another bizarre case of misreading my work, i thought only two of my OSB sheets were 1220mm (i.e. full width). It turns out 4 of them were :o

So, this necessitated a bit of accurate cutting and patching. The gap:
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the cut:
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the result:
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sadly, my trusty little workbench has taken a bit of a beating, bearing the brunt of a circular saw more than once:
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So, with the inside clad on three sides things were looking a lot more shed-like:
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and i turned my attention to getting the outside weather proof. First order of business was ditching the hideous blue tarpaulins:
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An earlier eBay purchase:
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cladding the right side, quite a slow effort, but quite satisfying to get it level and taut:
Image

I don’t have pics of the rear because of access, but suffice to say it’s no more interesting than this - now with the battens attached:
Image

idiot - my earlier post refers:
Image

Anyway, I’ll fix that in due course, but this weekend’s task was to finish the wrapping and inside cladding. A pic of the wrapping basically done (I’ve since cut out the window)
Image

And a pic of the cladding at the front. Forgive the overexposure, it’s to show the joints around the window area:
Image

overall quite pleasing as the cladding fits pretty well and looks ok and the building is now watertight and a damn site better looking minus tarpaulins!

Next steps are to order and fit the flooring, get the remaining battens installed on the front and start thinking about doors!

Cheers
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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby Malc2098 » 18 Sep 2016, 22:37

Looking good!

Taking notes for my impending build!
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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby Jimmy Mack » 19 Sep 2016, 20:11

Nice Dave... Slick looking Membrane (mine was beige *weeps*).

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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby Mike G » 20 Sep 2016, 07:38

I'd be interested in a look at the detail of the cladding meeting the ground, if you've got anything that shows that. Oh, and whilst you've not got a floor, chuck a few bags of rat poison down, just in case something digs its way in.
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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby ScotlandtheDave » 20 Sep 2016, 18:00

Mike G wrote:I'd be interested in a look at the detail of the cladding meeting the ground, if you've got anything that shows that.


Mike, its the one area of the build that i haven't given very much thought to (relatively speaking :)), despite the fact its a pretty crucial interface. I wasn't set on larch cladding, but seeing in the flesh i'd like to use it. My plan was to seal the cavity from insects with mesh top and bottom, create some kickers to push the cladding out and screw it on using stainless screws. I wouldn't have the cladding flush to the ground because its just pointless, i'd have it probably just covering the sole plate and leave the concrete to take the worst of the elements. I am totally resigned to the fact that given the lack of masonry there the lower cladding will take a pasting, hence using stainless screws so it can be removed in future. Not sure what additional protection i could offer it at the bottom, a coat of clear weatherproofing perhaps?

As always, your experience in this would be most welcome.
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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby Mike G » 20 Sep 2016, 20:32

I don't know what to suggest, Dave. The whole premise of my designs are to get the timber up and away from the ground. You have vertical battens so are going to have horizontal boarding. You might consider having Eternit boards, or similar, for the bottom couple of rows, maybe.
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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby ScotlandtheDave » 20 Sep 2016, 21:01

Yep, I always knew without brickwork it would have a shelf life, but I was nowhere near that mindset when i was starting out on this venture - look at my first ideas on this thread :) However, after my trials and tribulations with the current floor arrangement it might not have been such a big leap both in terms of cost and complexity.

However, you have got me thinking. Originally I thought two types of cladding would look horrific, but i was thinking about how awful it would look trying to make them match. With your good advice some time back in Jimmy's thread about making a join a feature instead of hiding it, i wonder if a deep contrast would work i.e. black or dark Grey against the larch. It could work and actually look quite nice too, if the idea in my head is do-able. I'm thinking a course to the door level, then the larch from there up. Let me find some examples / mock something up on sketchup an see how it would work.

I'm off to google Eternit :)
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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby Jimmy Mack » 02 Oct 2016, 13:11

How's it coming on Dave? Hope nothing 'catastrophic' has...
no wait...wrong thread!

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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby ScotlandtheDave » 02 Oct 2016, 13:15

Jimmy Mack wrote:How's it coming on Dave? Hope nothing 'catastrophic' has...
no wait...wrong thread!

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:) well played, jimmy!

I'll post a wee update later, absolutely glorious here today but I'm currently mulling over cladding issues! Need to tidy some garden bits and make the most of the sun as I doubt we'll see many more days like this :)Image
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Re: Dave's Shed project (progress)

Postby ScotlandtheDave » 02 Oct 2016, 21:21

Its dark now and Vit D levels are topped up. No time for kitten around as JM needs an update :)

no giant leaps forward, but some progress. I gave the interior a coat of cheap emulsion to lighten things up, needs another couple of coats. I enlisted a mate to help clad the ceiling, after SWMBO gave me a hand to put up one panel and i almost killed her with the weight :) first up was taking that section back down and insulating - I forgot. Luckily, my head prevented the sheet falling on my feet as my supports failed when removing..

Some strips of membrane were employed to hold the insulation up:

Image

Glass fibre insulation is painful to work with - literally. Cue the rest of the day with itchy face and sore eyes. Image

No further pics but suffice to say the ceiling is now insulated and clad. Its really starting to look like a space now. Next steps are to get a couple of jobs finished off - guttering is proving a necessity as the rain is pouring off the roof and i need to get the ply flooring down. From there, i really need to nail down some details round the cladding, specifically how i manage the external corners and interfaces round doors/window. I have given it some thought but this needs crystallized and documented for your c+c.
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