It is currently 28 Mar 2024, 22:56

Built in Cupboard advice needed

This forum is for any general questions, queries or plain old chinwaggery on Woody stuff in general.

Built in Cupboard advice needed

Postby meccarroll » 12 Oct 2016, 12:06

Hi all I have some built in bedroom cupboards to make, nothing fancy or expensive just intend using mdf (sprayed or maybe hand painted).

Basic design of cupboards:

Image

Image


I used a router and simple cutter and came up with this as a first design idea for the doors (the inset design will be repeated on the larger doors twice to give the impression of two panels):

Image

Image

Image

It was pretty simple to do, just ran the fence along the edge of the mdf and stopped the cutter at a pencil line. Moved the fence over and cut the inner panel at a slightly raised depth, about 30 minutes in all. I've used this method before and worked well.

By the way these are for my other half so not paid work :(

I ran the design by the boss and she said the design is ok but not sure about the centre panel being raise :eusa-snooty:



Another option I have is to make the doors framed with an mdf flat panel inset using the Omas cutter set below:

Image

Image

Image

Before I jump in and buy the sheet material I have a couple of questions:

Advice needed:

1. Has anyone used an Omas or similar cutter set to make doors out of mdf, and if so any pitfalls (will one set of cutters make these cupboards) etc?

2. The largest doors are H 1655 x W 485mm. I have not made cupboard doors this size before out of mdf and am wondering if 18 or 25mm thick should be used.

Are there any threads on here where mdf framed doors have been made?


Cheers in advance.

Mark
meccarroll
Sapling
 
Posts: 423
Joined: 12 May 2016, 10:45
Name:

Re: Built in Cupboard advice needed

Postby RogerS » 12 Oct 2016, 13:25

I'd be worried about the furriness of MDF maintaining a coherent and stable glue line over time. The lighter the door the better I'd have thought.

But...I've not much experience of using MDF and try and avoid it as much as possible.

You could try PM's Mailee as I know that he used to use it a lot and was amazingly productive with it.
If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door.
User avatar
RogerS
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 13291
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Nearly finished. OK OK...call me Pinocchio.
Name:

Re: Built in Cupboard advice needed

Postby Robert » 12 Oct 2016, 13:47

Very basic but I made some doors using MDF here -

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2004

It's not the first time I've used this construction with MDF. I've found it is near impossible with ordinary MDF for the rails. You can get away with it for the panels. 2 reasons..the difficult bit is I use PVA glue and if you get moisture near ordinary MDF it swells. That means things that went together nicely as a dry fit can't even be forced together with clamps once the edges are wet with glue. With Moisture MDF it doesn't swell with glue on it so with glue only on the MR stuff you can fit a std MDF panel.
And the other reason is MRMDF is so much less furry than the normal stuff so there is less work sealing and sanding the edges.

Oh and the large doors are 1800+ x around 400mm. I fitted 1 extra hinge to each just to make sure they stay straight and they have. 18mm used. Don't think you need more thickness just more hinges.
Robert
Old Oak
 
Posts: 2490
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 19:31
Location: Woodford Green
Name: Robert

Re: Built in Cupboard advice needed

Postby meccarroll » 12 Oct 2016, 14:53

Robert wrote:Very basic but I made some doors using MDF here -

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2004

It's not the first time I've used this construction with MDF. I've found it is near impossible with ordinary MDF for the rails. You can get away with it for the panels. 2 reasons..the difficult bit is I use PVA glue and if you get moisture near ordinary MDF it swells. That means things that went together nicely as a dry fit can't even be forced together with clamps once the edges are wet with glue. With Moisture MDF it doesn't swell with glue on it so with glue only on the MR stuff you can fit a std MDF panel.
And the other reason is MRMDF is so much less furry than the normal stuff so there is less work sealing and sanding the edges.

Oh and the large doors are 1800+ x around 400mm. I fitted 1 extra hinge to each just to make sure they stay straight and they have. 18mm used. Don't think you need more thickness just more hinges.


RogerS
Thank you RogerS for the reply.

Robert
Brilliant, just what I needed to hear. I did take a look at your thread some time ago Robert, but could not remember much about it and I was not sure where to find it, so cheers for the link. I was thinking of buying a sheet of ordinary mdf and making a test door to see how things turned out but I can now see that would have likely failed at glue up stage. Thank you very much.

Mark
meccarroll
Sapling
 
Posts: 423
Joined: 12 May 2016, 10:45
Name:

Re: Built in Cupboard advice needed

Postby Malc2098 » 12 Oct 2016, 17:54

Hi Mark,

I covered a new boiler this year and had to make doors to match the Travis P ones.

http://www.thewoodhaven2.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=1970#p25545

I did a trial run on ordinary MDF and MRMDF comes out much less furry!

I used aerosol spray from the big orange diy store and aerosol primer from the big orange auto store. Came out better than I thought my abilities would achieve.

How about adding a bit more interest to the design with an arch in the pattern?

Malcolm
Malcolm
User avatar
Malc2098
Sequoia
 
Posts: 7209
Joined: 03 Jul 2016, 11:10
Location: Tiverton
Name: Malcolm

Re: Built in Cupboard advice needed

Postby meccarroll » 12 Oct 2016, 19:35

Malc2098 wrote:Hi Mark,

I covered a new boiler this year and had to make doors to match the Travis P ones.

http://www.thewoodhaven2.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=1970#p25545

I did a trial run on ordinary MDF and MRMDF comes out much less furry!

I used aerosol spray from the big orange diy store and aerosol primer from the big orange auto store. Came out better than I thought my abilities would achieve.

How about adding a bit more interest to the design with an arch in the pattern?

Malcolm


Hello Malcolm, as it happens I do remember reading your post and found it interesting. I think I am having too many senior moments nowadays as although remember reading it, I didn't recall it when I posted this.

One thing for sure is that most people on here have experienced problems when using standard MDF and seem to only recommend using moisture resistant mdf (mrmdf) and machining for framing.

On the advice given I have now purchased enough mdf (MR Type MDF) to build the cupboards in either fashion (framed or inscribed and in 18 or 25mm thickness) so I hope that I will now be covered for all eventualities. I have a few more jobs in the pipeline so know any surplus mdf will be used in the near future.

Thank you for the reassurance and link to your post, Malcolm, much appreciated.

Mark

PS: Instruction from the BOSS square tops :eusa-shifty:
meccarroll
Sapling
 
Posts: 423
Joined: 12 May 2016, 10:45
Name:

Re: Built in Cupboard advice needed

Postby Malc2098 » 12 Oct 2016, 20:09

I always find curves more interesting, so I hesitate to say, but that lady's got no taste! (says he running for cover!!!)

PS 18mm in front of the new boiler, and since April, no distortion.
Malcolm
User avatar
Malc2098
Sequoia
 
Posts: 7209
Joined: 03 Jul 2016, 11:10
Location: Tiverton
Name: Malcolm

Re: Built in Cupboard advice needed

Postby Robert » 12 Oct 2016, 22:17

One other point with MR MDF... Selco which is the only place locally that keeps it in stock refuse to cut it on their panel saw citing health concerns. I don't know how valid that is but I do treat the dust with respect. That said it doesn't float about as much as machining std mdf.
Robert
Old Oak
 
Posts: 2490
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 19:31
Location: Woodford Green
Name: Robert

Re: Built in Cupboard advice needed

Postby meccarroll » 13 Oct 2016, 03:55

Robert wrote:One other point with MR MDF... Selco which is the only place locally that keeps it in stock refuse to cut it on their panel saw citing health concerns. I don't know how valid that is but I do treat the dust with respect. That said it doesn't float about as much as machining std mdf.


I am very pleased with all the concerns raised regarding machining and gluing MDF and MR MDF. Although I have machined both standard and MR MDF before I have not yet tried to use it to frame doors so this is a first. When the material is delivered (Friday) I'll make a door up to see how it goes.

There is a High Density MDF made, which might be an alternative to MR MDF but I have not tried it myself.

With respect to MDF and health, I always use a FFP3 (Face Fitting Particle grade 3) dust mask when machining . FFP3 dust masks are the highest standard you can generally buy. In America there has been some concern about the Formaldehyde content and fine dust produced when machining but it's use is not banned in America as some joiners over hear think.

The filter on my dust extraction has been made for use with fine dust particles such as MDF and it is sited out of my main machining area so I am fairly well catered for when machining.

Thank you for raising the point Robert.

Mark
meccarroll
Sapling
 
Posts: 423
Joined: 12 May 2016, 10:45
Name:

Re: Built in Cupboard advice needed

Postby RogerS » 13 Oct 2016, 06:59

And I thought that I was the forum insomniac ! :o I see that I am not alone ;)
If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door.
User avatar
RogerS
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 13291
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Nearly finished. OK OK...call me Pinocchio.
Name:

Re: Built in Cupboard advice needed

Postby meccarroll » 17 Oct 2016, 07:25

Just an update, so you know I did follow up on the advice given.

Material arrived late Friday so I ordered both 18 and 25mm MDF but went with 18mm as Robert suggested. The cutter set I was going to use only goes down to 22mm thickness so I had to use a different set from the above but similar. The ones I am using are Omas 426-1 cabinet door set (The ones above are Omas 426-2 cabinet door set):

Image

This is the type of profile I used (on instruction from the boss):

Image

Robert said he used ordinary MDF for the his panels but it was only about £4 more for MRMDF so that's what I used for panels too. Below is a picture of a bottom rail with panel inserted:

Image

I managed to cut the MDF to size also profile the mould and machine the rails to length ready for fitting together on Sunday.

Hears a picture of three cupboard doors glued up (done on Sunday):

Image

Now they are together I think maybe 22mm would have been better because instead of using one continuous panel as Robert did, I split mine with an intermediate rail and there is a slight bit of whip in the doors. I'm sure once the hinges are on and they are hung they will be fine but If I make this style and size door again in MDF I'll try 22mm next time.

I'm glad I was advised to use MRMDF as it seems to have worked just fine.

Mark
meccarroll
Sapling
 
Posts: 423
Joined: 12 May 2016, 10:45
Name:

Re: Built in Cupboard advice needed

Postby Robert » 17 Oct 2016, 09:22

Looking good.

If you have painted ordinary MDF before you should find the moisture stuff less work. It still needs sealing and rubbing down before final coat but it is all easier.
Robert
Old Oak
 
Posts: 2490
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 19:31
Location: Woodford Green
Name: Robert

Re: Built in Cupboard advice needed

Postby Malc2098 » 17 Oct 2016, 10:45

Looking good.
Malcolm
User avatar
Malc2098
Sequoia
 
Posts: 7209
Joined: 03 Jul 2016, 11:10
Location: Tiverton
Name: Malcolm

Re: Built in Cupboard advice needed

Postby chippy1970 » 17 Oct 2016, 21:25

I wouldn't worry 18mm will be fine. Yeah 22mm is better but my own wardrobes are 18mm with 3x 6mm panels 2300 x 600 and felt floppy on the bench but solid once hinged.

Sent from my ALE-L21 using Tapatalk
chippy1970
New Shoots
 
Posts: 147
Joined: 05 Oct 2014, 07:56
Name:

Re: Built in Cupboard advice needed

Postby meccarroll » 18 Oct 2016, 07:25

chippy1970 wrote:I wouldn't worry 18mm will be fine. Yeah 22mm is better but my own wardrobes are 18mm with 3x 6mm panels 2300 x 600 and felt floppy on the bench but solid once hinged.

Sent from my ALE-L21 using Tapatalk


Thank you for the reassurance, chippy1970, it all helps when trying something new.

I have used flat and inscribed MDF to make cupboard doors before without a problem but it's the first time I have used MDF as a framing material for door construction. All the doors and draw fronts are now made, just waiting for delivery of the paint and hinges to finish. I think you are right, once hinged and fit, they will be fine.

Cheers Mark
meccarroll
Sapling
 
Posts: 423
Joined: 12 May 2016, 10:45
Name:

Re: Built in Cupboard advice needed

Postby meccarroll » 18 Oct 2016, 07:48

Robert wrote:Looking good.

If you have painted ordinary MDF before you should find the moisture stuff less work. It still needs sealing and rubbing down before final coat but it is all easier.


Yes I have painted MDF before Robert. I used medite MRMDF which seems fine after machining but there are Trade and Premier versions of the medite (standard) MDF so the quality after machining may vary depending upon which version is machined. I think picking the right version for the job in had is important and your advice regarding MRMDF for framing was spot on.

For painting, I am using an acid catalysed topcoat with an acid catalysed high build primer (sprayed on). Two coats of primer (well rubbed down between coats) and one topcoat. Symphony coating are the suppliers.

Mark
meccarroll
Sapling
 
Posts: 423
Joined: 12 May 2016, 10:45
Name:


Return to General Woodworking

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests