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Repairing Grandad's Garden Fork

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Repairing Grandad's Garden Fork

Postby RogerS » 17 Oct 2016, 18:02

This has been on my TUIT list for a very long time. The shaft on my grandfathers' garden fork snapped with age and rot. I've got a nice piece of ash lined up (I think that ash is one of the recommended timbers for handles.). It's worth repairing - partly for sentimental reasons and partly because I reckon it must be around 80-100 years old.

Here's the handle part.

Image

Notice the absence of any metal apart from this large 'rivet'

Image

It's all made/carved from a solid piece which raises interesting questions as to the strength because those two thin parts are only about 10mm thick and 35mm wide. Going to be interesting making the handle and losing all that excess wood.

The part remaining inside the tines part was a bit of a puzzler. I tried drilling out the rivets but they are rusted in good and proper plus fairly chunky.

Image
I didn't want to angle grind them off as that would eat into the actual meta part of the tines and look awful. Plus that metal seems quite thin.

I considered sticking it in the fire but worried about losing any temper. I tried chiselling out some of the wood from the middle but a lot of it has rusted into the metal part and because it's so relatively thin started to distort as soon as I got heavy-handed with the chisel. So I've come to a compromise.

I've chiselled away as much of the wood as seems reasonable and all that exposed surface should make it burn very quickly in the fire thus minimising any risk of losing temper. At least that's the theory !

Image

Any suggestions as to how to make the handle very, very welcome as I have no obvious easy way in mind.

Any suggestions also on how to replace the three rivets down the bottom plus the long one that goes through the handle also very welcome. Threaded rod won't work for the bottom three rivets, that's for sure and so I think I'm looking at getting some sort of metal (no idea what sort), getting it red hot and then bashing the ends down. Thing is I don't have a rivet-bashing-concave-plunger thingie!
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Re: Repairing Grandad's Garden Fork

Postby Pinch » 17 Oct 2016, 20:30

This is going to be a very cool project Roger. Are you going like-for-like, or perhaps jazzing up the design a bit with some carving or inlay maybe? 8-)
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Re: Repairing Grandad's Garden Fork

Postby meccarroll » 18 Oct 2016, 10:26

Think I might make the top part (the actual handle) separate from the shaft (would make things easier).

Joint the two using a long oblong tenon made on the long shaft and insert it into a mortice on the handle (maybe foxed in). Also slightly house the round part of the shaft into the handle by about 1/2".

Think I'd just drill out the top where your hand fits and ease it to shape with chisels and rasps. Finish smooth with sandpaper then linseed oil to finish. No idea about the rivets though.

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Re: Repairing Grandad's Garden Fork

Postby Rod » 18 Oct 2016, 11:17

Couldn't you use a suitable sized coach bolt. Tighten initially with the nut and washer, then remove the nut, cut off any excess and bash the bolt to form a rivet head.

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Re: Repairing Grandad's Garden Fork

Postby 9fingers » 18 Oct 2016, 16:11

Rod wrote:Couldn't you use a suitable sized coach bolt. Tighten initially with the nut and washer, then remove the nut, cut off any excess and bash the bolt to form a rivet head.

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I think the term is "peening" Rod :lol:

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Re: Repairing Grandad's Garden Fork

Postby Andyp » 18 Oct 2016, 16:35

Being as it's a ball pein hammer that is used isn't it peining?
I do not think therefore I do not am.

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Repairing Grandad's Garden Fork

Postby TrimTheKing » 18 Oct 2016, 16:38

What about splitting, steaming and shaping the handle. I think that's how it used to be done and looks great! Would be an interesting project/technique to learn too!

Like this...

Image

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Re: Repairing Grandad's Garden Fork

Postby 9fingers » 18 Oct 2016, 16:50

Andyp wrote:Being as it's a ball pein hammer that is used isn't it peining?


It appears that the common name of part of the hammer is the Pein but it sometimes called the Peen but as far as I know the related verb is always to Peen.
Just another example of how the English language can be a pain (or pein!)

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Repairing Grandad's Garden Fork

Postby TrimTheKing » 18 Oct 2016, 18:13

I've always seen it written and said as 'peening', while the hammer spelled 'pein'. I was told by an old timer that it's pronounce 'pain' but I don't know if that's true...

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Re: Repairing Grandad's Garden Fork

Postby 9fingers » 18 Oct 2016, 18:31

TrimTheKing wrote:I've always seen it written and said as 'peening', while the hammer spelled 'pein'. I was told by an old timer that it's pronounce 'pain' but I don't know if that's true...

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Agreed on all points.

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Re: Repairing Grandad's Garden Fork

Postby Andyp » 18 Oct 2016, 18:33

My father always used to ask for it as the ball "pain" hammer. It was when he asked for a hammerfour that I used to get really confused.
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Re: Repairing Grandad's Garden Fork

Postby RogerS » 18 Oct 2016, 18:52

TrimTheKing wrote:What about splitting, steaming and shaping the handle. I think that's how it used to be done and looks great! Would be an interesting project/technique to learn too!

Like this...

Image

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Mmmm...The original is a solid piece and so I think I'd like to stick to that.

Bob...do you have any ideas on the riveting bit? I seem to remember that when I did my 'O' level metalwork that there was a special concave tool for the bashing-on-the-rivet-head-thereof but no idea what it's called. Would the rivets be soft iron of some description ?
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Re: Repairing Grandad's Garden Fork

Postby 9fingers » 18 Oct 2016, 19:06

The devices with a hemispherical recesses are call snaps.
The excess length of the rivet, which can be standard mild steel, needs to be cut to the correct length so that the volume of metal protruding of radius r and length l (=pi * r^2*l ) is equal to the volume of the hemisphere of radius R in the snap.
=2/3 pi * R^3
You should not be filing the rivet shape after forming in an ideal world.
The difference between r and R controls the size of the flange of the rivet. Possibly aim for R=2r at least

Snaps for heavy use would be hardened but making one from ordinary tough steel should be adequate.

hth

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Re: Repairing Grandad's Garden Fork

Postby RogerS » 23 Oct 2016, 07:36

Many thanks, Bob, for those formulae and information. Now I need to go a-searching now I know what I'm after!
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Re: Repairing Grandad's Garden Fork

Postby RogerS » 03 Nov 2016, 13:48

Bob, I now have rivets (dome head at one end and straight for the rest). I have a 'snap' but see it has two 'holes'.

One - a 'plain' hole - is the same diameter as my rivet and the other a concave dome shape. I've Googled but keep coming back to loads of videos on leather rivets or pop rivets so .....

...am I right in saying that I slide the plain hole over the rivet end and then start whacking it to get the rivet started ? Or do I run the risk of the rivet expanding inside the hole never to be removed ? Or is that plain hole for something else entirely?

Do I have to heat the rivet up to red hot heat ?
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Re: Repairing Grandad's Garden Fork

Postby 9fingers » 03 Nov 2016, 14:10

RogerS wrote:Bob, I now have rivets (dome head at one end and straight for the rest). I have a 'snap' but see it has two 'holes'.

One - a 'plain' hole - is the same diameter as my rivet and the other a concave dome shape. I've Googled but keep coming back to loads of videos on leather rivets or pop rivets so .....

...am I right in saying that I slide the plain hole over the rivet end and then start whacking it to get the rivet started ? Or do I run the risk of the rivet expanding inside the hole never to be removed ? Or is that plain hole for something else entirely?

Do I have to heat the rivet up to red hot heat ?


Hmm! all my snaps (small model engineering types) have only the hemispherical end. In use the other end will distort over time anyway so I can't quite understand what the cylindrical hole is for. Unless it locates on some sort of holder?
In your application I'd aim to use it cold unless you have oxyacetylene and can get just the tip hot. Start the process by peening over the edges and then complete the job with the snap. Practise first I think.

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Re: Repairing Grandad's Garden Fork

Postby RogerS » 03 Nov 2016, 14:24

9fingers wrote:....
In your application I'd aim to use it cold unless you have oxyacetylene and can get just the tip hot. Start the process by peening over the edges and then complete the job with the snap. Practise first I think.

Bob


Thanks, Bob.

Ah...I was only able to find four rivets online otherwise I had to buy 250 for muchos dosh.

I have four holes to fill . :) Just have to be careful, I think.
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Re: Repairing Grandad's Garden Fork

Postby Rod » 03 Nov 2016, 14:54

Perhaps the hole is to tighten things up initially. Using the dome head supported on an anvil. Once any slack taken up the peening can commence?

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Re: Repairing Grandad's Garden Fork

Postby Stargazer » 03 Nov 2016, 15:08

Rod,

That is how I remember being taught, the snaps come as a pair, when riveting two metal plates the first step is to put a snap in the vice, then using the dome depression hold the two plates together with a rivet installed mark the length and then remove and cut to the correct length. Then reassemble in the same way and using the cylindrical hole in the second snap close the two plates together on the rivet before using the second snap with the hemispherical depression to finish the job.
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Re: Repairing Grandad's Garden Fork

Postby DaveL » 03 Nov 2016, 18:58

Stargazer wrote:Rod,

That is how I remember being taught, the snaps come as a pair, when riveting two metal plates the first step is to put a snap in the vice, then using the dome depression hold the two plates together with a rivet installed mark the length and then remove and cut to the correct length. Then reassemble in the same way and using the cylindrical hole in the second snap close the two plates together on the rivet before using the second snap with the hemispherical depression to finish the job.

I was taught this way of using rivet snaps during the mechanical part of my apprenticeship in the early 70's. Not used that knowledge since.
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Re: Repairing Grandad's Garden Fork

Postby Tusses » 03 Nov 2016, 19:17

don't know if you watch "how it's made" ? .. but they did one on spades/shovels ... they cut the handle down the center and steam bent it .. might be worth a google ?
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Re: Repairing Grandad's Garden Fork

Postby Malc2098 » 03 Nov 2016, 19:29

The shipwright tips videos show him bending a gunwale using a long plastic bag. I'm going to nick the idea for my guitar sides using a wallpaper stripper as the steam generator. That could be a tip to bend the sides of the fork handle!

(I nearly said the Ronnie Barker thing then!!!)
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Re: Repairing Grandad's Garden Fork

Postby Tusses » 03 Nov 2016, 19:33

Malc2098 wrote:
(I nearly said the Ronnie Barker thing then!!!)


:D
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Re: Repairing Grandad's Garden Fork

Postby RogerS » 04 Nov 2016, 18:51

Stargazer wrote:Rod,

That is how I remember being taught, the snaps come as a pair, when riveting two metal plates the first step is to put a snap in the vice, then using the dome depression hold the two plates together with a rivet installed mark the length and then remove and cut to the correct length. Then reassemble in the same way and using the cylindrical hole in the second snap close the two plates together on the rivet before using the second snap with the hemispherical depression to finish the job.


Ian, thanks for that - very helpful. My quandary though is what stops the expanding inside the hole and locking itself in place?

Also the depth of the hole is 15mm which is a heck of lot of metal and probably about 5x what is needed to form the rivet head.
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Re: Repairing Grandad's Garden Fork

Postby RogerS » 04 Nov 2016, 18:57

Ah found this on t'web. Ian and Bob have got it, I thin. Still unexplained is the length in the set.

"...As I was taught, the 'setting' of a rivet is the process whereby the parts to be held by the rivet are closed together tightly before the rivet is finally formed. So the rivet would be inserted in the close fitting holes in the parts to be held, the head is supported somehow - usually in a second snap - and the loose setting hole placed over it and hammered down to close the parts together, hence the loose fit in the snap. You can make a set to do this latter with just a hole in a length of carbon steel and hardening and tempering to blue making sure that the business end is well finished so as not to mark the work.

I may be teaching grandmother to suck eggs, but the snap cannot be used to form the head, only finish it. After the rivet is set (assuming it has been cut to the correct length), the head must be rough formed by 'peening ' with a hammer. This is done with the half round part of the ball peen hammer. The half round set is only then used to finally finish off the head to a good half round shape. The picture gives a better idea of how it is done. The two parts would have been set tightly together before peening....."

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