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Cutting a pigs ear

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Cutting a pigs ear

Postby woodstalker » 17 Jan 2017, 22:39

So the Building Control Officer has said out new stairs need a short section of bannister on the wall at the each of the two half turns because the Newel post on the opposite side is not enough.

We are considering a fashionable rope affair (as suggested by BCO) but they can be quite pricey so as a temporary measure whilst Mrs Woodstalker decides what she wants to do and to get BCO sign off we have a pigs ear profile wooden bannister being dropped off on Thursday.

My question is does anyone have a method to mitre the ends together where they meet in the corner of the wall at the angle of the stairs if that makes sense? I have a mitre saw so which tilts so presumably i need to work out the angle of the stairs in some way?
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Re: Cutting a pigs ear

Postby woodstalker » 17 Jan 2017, 22:44

Now reading the the Compound angle Calculator in the tips and tutorial section.

Forgive me didn't know it was called a compound angle and therefore didn't know what search term to use for the forum. :oops:

However any tips still gratefully received!
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Re: Cutting a pigs ear

Postby Rod » 17 Jan 2017, 23:38

If everything else fails, mark it out on the wall in soft pencil and make a cardboard template.

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Re: Cutting a pigs ear

Postby Mike G » 18 Jan 2017, 08:50

..........or mock it up with scrap. Guess the angle, offer it up and adjust, and adjust again, and finally run a saw through the resulting gap until you have a perfect joint. Transfer this to your proper handrail, which again, you leave overlong and adjust the joint before sorting out the free ends. Those calculators are all well and good if your walls are straight.......best of luck with that!!
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Re: Cutting a pigs ear

Postby Malc2098 » 18 Jan 2017, 10:48

Do you mean like this?

Image

I stuck a load of masking tape lightly to the wall and used that to draw all vertical attempts, and another load on the return floor to draw the horizontal ones.

The aged FIL likes the half turn in the corner, says his hand goes naturally round it.

But, it was mostly trial and error to get anywhere near right.
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Re: Cutting a pigs ear

Postby woodstalker » 18 Jan 2017, 21:48

Mike G wrote:..........or mock it up with scrap. Guess the angle, offer it up and adjust, and adjust again, and finally run a saw through the resulting gap until you have a perfect joint. Transfer this to your proper handrail, which again, you leave overlong and adjust the joint before sorting out the free ends. Those calculators are all well and good if your walls are straight.......best of luck with that!!


Thanks Mike, i expect my walls aren't square enough so mocking up in scrap might be the best idea
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Re: Cutting a pigs ear

Postby woodstalker » 18 Jan 2017, 21:50

Malc2098 wrote:Do you mean like this?

Image

I stuck a load of masking tape lightly to the wall and used that to draw all vertical attempts, and another load on the return floor to draw the horizontal ones.

The aged FIL likes the half turn in the corner, says his hand goes naturally round it.

But, it was mostly trial and error to get anywhere near right.


Hi Malc, not quite like that, the stairs don't have intermediate landings at the turns like yours has, and the pigs ear bannister fits directly onto the wall like a wood moulding essentially. The reason being the stair case is fairly narrow and if we fitted a conventional bannister it would intrude into the space too much
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Re: Cutting a pigs ear

Postby Malc2098 » 18 Jan 2017, 22:10

WS

Do your stairs have sides like mine in the photo? Could you use the sides and scribe them up to the height of the rail to get some of your angles?

100mm masking tape came in very useful for that!
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Re: Cutting a pigs ear

Postby woodstalker » 18 Jan 2017, 23:27

Malc2098 wrote:WS

Do your stairs have sides like mine in the photo? Could you use the sides and scribe them up to the height of the rail to get some of your angles?

100mm masking tape came in very useful for that!


Hi Malc,

they look like this and this is where the short sections of handrail need to go on the wall:

Image

Image

I thought you had a stroke of genius then and went to check the profile of the edge of the stairs low down (in white in the photo) thinking as you say i could use them to estimate the angle and tweak to fit but the profile is a curve so no straight line for me to copy yet.

I think the scrap wood plan will allow me to set the saw up correctly to then cut the bannister. I will have plenty spare because it only seems to come in 4.2m lengths!!
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Re: Cutting a pigs ear

Postby Malc2098 » 18 Jan 2017, 23:38

Stroke of genius is not something that people normally associate with me!! :D

But how about scribing up from each stair tread, either its front, back or middle and then join the dots.
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Re: Cutting a pigs ear

Postby woodstalker » 19 Jan 2017, 08:00

Malc2098 wrote:Stroke of genius is not something that people normally associate with me!! :D

But how about scribing up from each stair tread, either its front, back or middle and then join the dots.


There we go; genius!

I'll give that a try to get the angle of the bannister then use scrap wood to get the join angle right.

Cheers all
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Re: Cutting a pigs ear

Postby woodstalker » 21 Jan 2017, 23:35

Well i did it sort of. I gave up trying to cut the compound mitre and instead split it into separate mitre cuts by having small horizontal sections at the junction of the walls which, as Mike correctly pointed out, were not flat and so were tricky enough to do the simple mitre.

Anyway i have given it a sand and filled the screw holes ready for painting tomorrow.

From the top of the stairs looking down:
Image

From the middle of the stairs looking up:
Image

From the top of the stairs looking down at the lower handrail:
Image

Certainly not perfect but once painted i think they'll be ok...
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Re: Cutting a pigs ear

Postby Malc2098 » 22 Jan 2017, 00:50

:text-bravo:

Well done! Some serious thinking thrown at a problem and a solution comes out! As well as skilled execution!
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Re: Cutting a pigs ear

Postby Tusses » 22 Jan 2017, 16:10

Top Banana :eusa-clap:
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Re: Cutting a pigs ear

Postby Pinch » 22 Jan 2017, 17:07

I missed this thread. I always find the most accurate way with these compound jobbies is to mark the pitchline onto the wall and offering two identical pieces of scrap wood into the corner overlapping each other will bisect the angle for you from which you could either make up a mitre box or go straight onto a compound mitre saw. This method will always work accurately whether the internal corner is bang on 90 degrees or a smidge under or over. Just the job. 8-)

It looks like you conquered it very successfully chap. 8-)

Definitely not a pig's ear, more like the dog's danglies! :eusa-clap:

:text-bravo:
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Re: Cutting a pigs ear

Postby Andyp » 22 Jan 2017, 17:13

Well done. I've got a handrail to put up for my outlaws. Just a straight run so I am well impressed with yours.
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cheers
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Re: Cutting a pigs ear

Postby woodstalker » 22 Jan 2017, 18:15

Thanks for the positive feedback guys. Cheers for the tip Pinch, having seen your stairs build thread I should have checked if you also had a method. I need to by a protractor of some description in order to measure the angles in future I think.

This was done by measuring up from the noses of the steps and drawing the line in the wall and then estimating the angle and using the mitre saw to cot it, offering it up and trimming the angle a tiny bit at a time to get what I wanted. The really tricky bit was to hold the bannister square in the saw due to its profile.

Anyway I have now moved on to building a sturdy base for an overly large butlers sink to sit in in the utility room (although I did fall asleep on the sofa with my daughter for an hour just now as she was also having a nap...)
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Re: Cutting a pigs ear

Postby Malc2098 » 22 Jan 2017, 18:18

:text-bravo:

I don't need an excuse to fall akip on the sofa! It comes natural at my age! :D
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