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Roofing - HOW??

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Roofing - HOW??

Postby TrimTheKing » 31 Jan 2017, 18:26

Not sure whether this should go under the Workshop Build forum but let's see how it goes...

Spoke with my builder today and his mate Jaco, the one who does the bulk of the work, has put his knee out quite badly coming down from a ladder! He has had scans and while there's no apparent major damage he's out of action for 2-3 weeks minimum while the swelling goes down.

I'm getting impatient to get sealed up now and Darek said if I don't want to wait then he'll understand if I want to get a roofer in so I'm looking at both that and doing the roofing myself as my options currently.

I've been thinking about booking a bit of holiday to start getting the shop ready assuming it would be nearly done now so maybe I can use that time to put the lid on myself...

I've got a man sourcing slates, which at 12"x18" are an unusual size apparently...?

I the meantime I wondered if anyone can either explain to me in words a simpleton can comprehend, or point me towards a resource that can help me lay out the batten spacing and what to do/not to do in getting ready then fixing my slates?

I'm sure it can't be that hard, and that like most things the planning and prep are the key, so anything I can read and follow that comes experience backed by any of you here would be amazing.

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Re: Roofing - HOW??

Postby Mike G » 31 Jan 2017, 18:33

Absolutely DO NOT do any battening until you have at least a sample of the slate you are going to use. Everything depends upon the hole position, and they pretty much all come pre-holed these days.

I wouldn't go for that big a slate on such a small roof. Try to match the size of the slate to the size of the roof. I'd say 500x250 would be about as big as you'd want to go. Frankly, I'd buy by quality and price rather than size. Once you've got your slates, or at least a sample, bump the thread and we'll go through the process in detail.
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Re: Roofing - HOW??

Postby Doug » 31 Jan 2017, 18:43

I'd definitely use copper nails, aluminium can be too soft & Stainless are a bugger if you need to remove a slate after the roof is finished, other than that just thrash on ;)

Or you could have a gander at this http://www.ssqgroup.com/resource-centre ... ing-guide/ whilst waiting for the slates to arrive.
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Re: Roofing - HOW??

Postby Tusses » 31 Jan 2017, 20:03

ooh .. ooh .. I can help with this one ... !! Yay :D

the roof goes on the top bit :eusa-dance:
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Re: Roofing - HOW??

Postby Tusses » 31 Jan 2017, 20:28

Apart from the tech details, the actual "doing" is easy :-) .. I've helped tile a roof. It was summer though ! lol

Some kind of scaffold/platform would be good around the working area .

and .. finally .... don't fall off :eusa-violin:
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Re: Roofing - HOW??

Postby Dan0741 » 31 Jan 2017, 20:46

These films are the basics, and quite informative if you can put up with the accent!

I second the plea Mike has made to not start the battening until slates are on site.

Lastly - I bought almost the cheapest slates I could find, all be it they conformed to the building standards etc... but they were almost impossible to fit as some were curved, in both directions some of them and completely different thicknesses...

I regret the fact that I visited a local roofing yard, and the bloke showed me a pallet of almost perfectly uniform slates and for about 60 quid cheaper I bought online from roofing superstore Brazilian I think that turned up looking awful.

I didn't realise there was so much variation.

Plan it out and you will have no dramas at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNmB5y4gmq4&t=11s

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Last edited by Dan0741 on 31 Jan 2017, 22:17, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Roofing - HOW??

Postby TrimTheKing » 31 Jan 2017, 21:03

Cheers chaps

Mike - my reason for going with that size is because I have c47m2 to slate and already have c15m2 of that size that I painstakingly removed from the old shed roof over 2 days...

So, new question, persevere in finding this size or buy smaller new/reclaimed and sell the ones I have?

Absolutely no intention of battening until I have them, that much I did know. Battens are on temp nailed right now but just to hold the membrane down. Was always the intention to lift and re-lay these when we have the slates ready.

One I have an answer to above then I'll start working out price and ordering.

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Re: Roofing - HOW??

Postby Mike G » 31 Jan 2017, 21:23

Stick the big ones on the back of one of the rooves, whichever one they would cover without leaving too many over. Then use new ones on the rest of the roof. I would always advocate buying new, rather than reclaimed, for a number of reasons, not least of which is that there is a thriving trade in stolen roofing ripped off isolated buildings at night. If people stopped buying second-hand they wouldn't be stolen so often.
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Re: Roofing - HOW??

Postby Tusses » 31 Jan 2017, 21:25

Mike G wrote: rooves,


oooh ,, that's proper old school ! I like it :-)
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Re: Roofing - HOW??

Postby Deejay » 01 Feb 2017, 11:15

Morning Mark

I'll send you a PDF from Eternit. It refers to cement based tiles, but the principles are the same.

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Re: Roofing - HOW??

Postby TrimTheKing » 01 Feb 2017, 11:33

Thanks Dave

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Re: Roofing - HOW??

Postby TrimTheKing » 01 Feb 2017, 11:37

Incidentally Dave, did you send over those other ones you mentioned a couple of weeks ago? Apologies if you did but I haven't seen them.

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Re: Roofing - HOW??

Postby Deejay » 01 Feb 2017, 12:53

Morning Mark

PM sent

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Roofing - HOW??

Postby TrimTheKing » 10 Mar 2017, 00:20

Okay chaps, decision made, new slates bought in at 250*500 as per Mike's advice.

Have worked out the batten gauge etc but struggling now with one detail, how to work out how to properly space them.

Here's my challenge, large front section of roof is 5320 wide, taking into account 50mm per side of under cloaking I'm at 5420.

Starting with a full slate at either side I divided the space and came up with 21.68 slates, so I rounded down to 21 but that leaves me with a 9mm gap in between each which I'm figuring is much too big. Advice I've seen is 3mm gap, give or take...

Next I looked at having a full slate on one edge and a half/partial slate down the other edge and doing this I can get 21.5 slates per row with a 2mm gap between is that okay? That would mean that for each row I would have a full slate at one end and partial slate at the other end, then reversed on the row above etc.

This seems okay to me but is there another way I need to be thinking about this?

Slates, remaining battens and copper clout nails arriving tomorrow and planning on finishing battening Saturday then cracking on with slates so need to work this out fairly smartish.

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Re: Roofing - HOW??

Postby StevieB » 10 Mar 2017, 08:08

When I did a roof last I was able to buy 'slate and a half' slates for edges to avoid those thin slivers - can you get the same, or even order a few larger slates and cut them down?

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Re: Roofing - HOW??

Postby Mike G » 10 Mar 2017, 08:20

Mark, you should round that to 21.5 slates, then it will work beautifully as you described. I would adjust your overhang to suit the slates.......there is nothing magic about a 50mm overhand. Make it 40 and you've halved your gap. Having said that, a 2mm gap is perfectly OK. I've seen perfectly sound roofs with gaps approaching 10mm (although I wouldn't accept that myself, or anything like it).
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Re: Roofing - HOW??

Postby TrimTheKing » 10 Mar 2017, 11:00

Steve - yep I could have done that also but they're ordered now without...

Mike - thanks, glad to hear that option is sound so I'll go with that.

I have a another question regarding a little detail I need to think about but I'll try and get a photo of that later as it's difficult to describe.

It's getting exciting now...

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Re: Roofing - HOW??

Postby 9fingers » 10 Mar 2017, 11:39

Mark,

I don't know how many courses of tiles involved but using just one tile and a half at the end of each course makes life so much easier. Without it, the half tile that you need to use instead can be quite precarious and in time can move and compromise the verges.
Can you just order the extra tile and halves and add to the delivery?

If you do stick with half tiles then maybe consider some dabs of gripfill to augment the nailing on the halves*

* unless Mike really throws a fit at this suggestion.....

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Re: Roofing - HOW??

Postby Doug » 10 Mar 2017, 12:11

Verge clips will secure the tiles at the verge overhang
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Re: Roofing - HOW??

Postby Mike G » 10 Mar 2017, 15:22

9fingers wrote:......
If you do stick with half tiles then maybe consider some dabs of gripfill to augment the nailing on the halves*

* unless Mike really throws a fit at this suggestion.....

Bob


Not at all. Everyone does it. I find a low modulus silicon works better, and you'll be running a bead of this along the underside of the slate at it's junction with the verge anyway.
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Re: Roofing - HOW??

Postby Doug » 13 Mar 2017, 08:43

Here you go Mark

Image

This is my extension, my next door neighbour is a roofer & suggested verge clips at the time as the roof is quite exposed, this side takes the full brunt of most of the winds we get. For me it was a no brainier as they were so cheap & easy to fit I ended up putting them on both sides.

That was over 10 years ago & nothing has moved.
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Re: Roofing - HOW??

Postby TrimTheKing » 13 Mar 2017, 10:41

Cheers Doug. Do they go on before you point up the verge then?

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Re: Roofing - HOW??

Postby Doug » 13 Mar 2017, 16:21

They just screw to the tile lath then hook up & over the slate, then get pointed in.
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Roofing - HOW??

Postby TrimTheKing » 13 Mar 2017, 16:22

So, my first bit of annoyance with my Polish boys. I'm not sure whether or not I need to be annoyed but I'm hoping Mike and others can tell me…

We spoke on Saturday afternoon before they finished about me wanting to put a velux in the rear roof so said if they were coming back Sunday to work on the small front section sorting battening and then slating up as far as the wall doing as much as they could while leaving space to get a 300mm lead sheet underneath (this is I think my mistake but I'll get to that in a second…), then to go to the back roof and sort the battening out and work out the spacings but only go up a few rows to leave me enough space to retrofit the velux framing in before the slates get that high so we don't need to mess around taking any off.

Unfortunately he either misunderstood or ignored me and went all the way to the wall!! :evil: When I asked him about the lead he said no it's fine, we will use 300mm cover flashing (lead sat on top of the slates) with abutment flashing or single steps.

I've done a bit of googling this morning and while a cover flashing and steps seems to be a perfectly valid way to do it, I am paranoid about leaks in this kind of abutment because we had the same at my old place and had to have it sorted so I would prefer soakers with abutment flashings or single step flashings as I'm concerned with the amount of wind we get here that rain would blow under the cover flashing and give me issues down the line…

My mistaken thinking earlier was that I thought you laid a wide sheet with a bend up the wall all the way down the junction prior to laying the slates then put the step flashings one the top, but I think what I was thinking about was actually soakers.

So, long way to get to the question, soakers/step flashing or cover flashing/step flashings? If the former, I assume that's as simple as sliding the soakers up under each slate as per the diagram below…?

Image

Other than that, it's looking good and hopefully not too far away now, though I'm not sure when he's back due to another job… :(

Image

Image



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Re: Roofing - HOW??

Postby TrimTheKing » 13 Mar 2017, 16:22

Doug wrote:They just screw to the tile lath then hook up & over the slate, then get pointed in.


Great cheers Doug.

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