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how to attach a shelf unit to a cupboard base?

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how to attach a shelf unit to a cupboard base?

Postby oddsocks » 28 Feb 2017, 19:04

I've been asked by a friend if I could make a seating/cupboard shelving unit similar to a pinterest image they had, but sized to fit their space. I've done a basic sketchup model (no edge or door/drawer detail) just to get an idea of materials cost using cutlist and Optimik (sheet planner s/w).

If I actually get asked to make it I'll start a project thread, but I'm already wondering the best way to fit the shelving unit to the cupboard without having visible turnscrews.
General picture of the unit.....

Image

and a close up of the 'challenge..
I've used the typical flatpack post and cam fittings before but wondered if there were alternatives? The cupboard and shelving verticals are aligned so if I were to use those and keep them hidden the only option I can think of is to fit the top of the cupboard to the shelving unit and built the cupboard so that the sides accept the pins from the top and the cams are hidden inside the cupboard. I would rather have the cupboard unit as a complete entity if there is a was to fit the shelving in situ.
Image

and a final side on view
Image

thanks

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Re: how to attach a shelf unit to a cupboard base?

Postby Rod » 28 Feb 2017, 19:45

Stopped housings

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Re: how to attach a shelf unit to a cupboard base?

Postby oddsocks » 28 Feb 2017, 19:51

Rod wrote:Stopped housings

Rod

thanks Rod - would that just then rely on the weight of the shelving to keep it in place? I suppose I could make the housing the full depth of the top (full tenon then!) and fix with a few short angled screws from inside the cupboard.

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Re: how to attach a shelf unit to a cupboard base?

Postby Rod » 28 Feb 2017, 19:56

If cut properly they should be a tight fit and slide them in from the back.
Glue in place.
You could use metal dowel pins in the sides, cut central grove to suit in the shelves and again slide in but this doesn't offer any sideways support

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Re: how to attach a shelf unit to a cupboard base?

Postby Doug » 28 Feb 2017, 20:04

You could dowel or domino the sides into the top, an old way was to put screws in the top, cut the heads off, drill corresponding holes in the uprights & locate the top unit over those screws. This meant the top unit could be removable

Alternatively screw the top of the base unit to the bottom of the top unit first,position the one over the other & fix the base unit to the top with brackets inside the base carcasses
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Re: how to attach a shelf unit to a cupboard base?

Postby oddsocks » 28 Feb 2017, 20:43

Thanks for the suggestions - I'll have to check with the person that wants it whether or not they expect to move it once in place - if not then gluing is an option. If they do (which I suspect as they have a new house extension and working out what to put where) then a removeable option is preferred.

I have just thought of another option which is to fit the cupboard top to the shelving but then also have a top (or two strips of MDF) in the cupboard unit. That will make that more rigid to transport and make it simple to screw through into the top. I know from the cutting list MDF sheet layouts that I have enough offcuts to do that, it would just reduce the space in the cupboard by 18mm.
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Re: how to attach a shelf unit to a cupboard base?

Postby Jimmy Mack » 01 Mar 2017, 14:34

+1 for dominos or biscuits, this is my usual approach on an alcove installation, and was for the one I shared last year (if you can make if out from the pics...)

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2295

You could glue the dowels, biscuits, etc. in place, with the weight of the upper casing doing the pressure. Or a less permanent approach could be to glue the dowels (Dominos) into the lower cabinet top...then a discreet screw through the bookcase cheek into the domino to fasten.

Lamello Simplex fittings?....If the top groove for the back panel is double depth then the panel could go up whilst cross locking the biscuits...there's a locking Simplex (Clamex) which requires a small hex key hole in the side of the casing cheek to turn the lock mechanism. (The Clamex requires a wider cut).

http://www.lamello.com/en/home/join-woo ... mplex.html
http://www.lamello.com/en/home/join-woo ... mex-s.html

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Re: how to attach a shelf unit to a cupboard base?

Postby RogerS » 04 Mar 2017, 08:16

Lamello stuff was eye-wateringly expensive the last time I looked. I used their Invis fixings a couple of years ago and found them very difficult/lots of problems with them.

Are there extra long kitchen carcass type fittings available? I was thinking that the metal spikey thing could go in the bottom edge of the shelving unit and then be dropped into holes that went all the way through the top of the cupboard thence into the turn-thingy things located on the inside top of the cupboard side walls.
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Re: how to attach a shelf unit to a cupboard base?

Postby Doug » 04 Mar 2017, 09:03

If you want KD fittings there's always the domino connector
https://www.ffx.co.uk/tools/product/Fes ... nector-Set
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Re: how to attach a shelf unit to a cupboard base?

Postby RogerS » 04 Mar 2017, 09:06

Doug wrote:If you want KD fittings there's always the domino connector
https://www.ffx.co.uk/tools/product/Fes ... nector-Set


Trouble is that they need caps and I don't think that the OP is up for that.
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Re: how to attach a shelf unit to a cupboard base?

Postby Mike G » 04 Mar 2017, 09:09

You mentioned that your drawing doesn't show doors, drawers etc., so this answer may or may not help.

How about putting a "shelf" on the bottom of the shelf units, such as at the top. So instead of feet sitting on the base unit, there is a flat bottom. Then you can simply screw through from the underside.

Obviously this would work best if there was a face frame, or even just doors to the shelf units.
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Re: how to attach a shelf unit to a cupboard base?

Postby RogerM » 04 Mar 2017, 11:45

I can't see anyone wanting to shift that in one piece, even if they are built like Olympic weight lifters. Too heavy. I would keep it modular. I would key the tops to the bases using dominoes (or dowels if I didn't have a dom), then secure the top to the base with a short metal strap down the back. That would stop it tipping forward, and the wall behind will stop it tipping back. The centre unit can be attached by screwing through from inside the cupboards with cabinet connectors - or maybe behind the hinge plates if they don't want to see any fastenings.

Are the backs of the upper units flush with the back of the sides? If they are inset, you could attach the backs of the centre unit by screwing in from the recess either side. That would make the sides sufficiently secure for the top shelf to sit on pegs, or to be screwed in place from inside the cupboard and for the screw heads to be hidden by the internal shelf. If the client wants to shift it once installed, it would be a quick and easy job to shuffle it forward sufficiently to separate the various components for shifting in manageable pieces.

I think I'd try and make the plinth in one piece to create the illusion that it is a single unit.

Just my two penn'orth! :eusa-think:
Last edited by RogerM on 04 Mar 2017, 11:52, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: how to attach a shelf unit to a cupboard base?

Postby oddsocks » 04 Mar 2017, 11:47

Thanks for the responses - I thought I'd already responded to Jimmy Mack's earlier post a few days ago but can't see it (so probably just previewed and forgot to submit!).

I was wondering the same as Roger - if there was a source of extra long 'post and cam' KD connectors that I could use 'in reverse' with the cam in the lower cupboard, but I have found any.

I won't be starting this until April at the earliest, so plenty of time to discuss options and practicalities of build and onsite assembly with our friends before then. A probable compromise would be to follow Jim's suggestion of screwing into a domino (my tool fund needs something to buy :-) ) and then painting the screwhead to match the finish. I managed to track down the source of the original pinterest image she had on her phone..... it took two hours of keyword search in pinterest to find the image that linked to a site 11best and then searched on 'mudroom' (an american term??) - its #9 in this link http://www.the11best.com/best-mudrooms/
That link was only images, but it's source was a painting site - about half way down, but still no dimensions or links to plans - but its an interesting site for unit layout ideas. After that I stopped looking!"

http://www.homebunch.com/interior-paint-color-ideas/

So the 'starting point' is lower cupboards with doors and upper open shelving units with no doors or face frames.

Thanks for all the responses, I'm about to go on holiday so may take a while to see and respond for the next week.....
now off to the local toolshop to see their DF500 pricing :-)

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Re: how to attach a shelf unit to a cupboard base?

Postby oddsocks » 04 Mar 2017, 20:52

[quote="RogerM...... I would keep it modular. I would key the tops to the bases using dominoes (or dowels if I didn't have a dom), then secure the top to the base with a short metal strap down the back. That would stop it tipping forward, and the wall behind will stop it tipping back. The centre unit can be attached by screwing through from inside the cupboards with cabinet connectors - or maybe behind the hinge plates if they don't want to see any fastenings. [/quote]

Thanks Roger - I like the strap idea and already intended to screw through into the sides, Do cabinet connectors (the plastic two piece items e.g. that B&Q sell?) have any advantages over just screws from inside the centre drawer unit to the cupboard?


[quote="RogerM...... I

Are the backs of the upper units flush with the back of the sides? If they are inset, you could attach the backs of the centre unit by screwing in from the recess either side. That would make the sides sufficiently secure for the top shelf to sit on pegs, or to be screwed in place from inside the cupboard and for the screw heads to be hidden by the internal shelf. If the client wants to shift it once installed, it would be a quick and easy job to shuffle it forward sufficiently to separate the various components for shifting in manageable pieces./quote]


In the current basic design they are flush with the back of the sides, but I get the idea and will investigate that v loss of shelf depth.

[quote="RogerM......

I think I'd try and make the plinth in one piece to create the illusion that it is a single unit.

:[/quote]


I will do that and level it first before fitting the modular units on top of it -as per Jimmy Mack's earlier thread from last year.

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