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Stile construction

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Stile construction

Postby RogerS » 12 Feb 2018, 17:21

Starting to think about this..or similar.

lead-roof-freestanding-conservatory.jpg
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If you look at the two columns (stiles) on either side of the door, they are pretty wide...too wide IMO and LOML likes 'thin'. So I've been thinking about how to reduce the cross-sectional area when viewed from the front while keeping strength.

Couple of ideas bouncing around are below..which shows the plan view (ie looking down). I can reduce the area if I go with the bottom one but will it be strong enough ?

orangerie frame stiles.jpg
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The arrow is the direction of the camera in the photo (if that makes sense)

Is there a better way ?
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Re: Stile construction

Postby Mike G » 12 Feb 2018, 18:59

I think they're stylistically wide to match the corners,and all to appear like pilasters. Fluted, or similar, and I think they make very attractive features. I'd pause before trying to design this out, personally.
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Re: Stile construction

Postby RogerS » 12 Feb 2018, 22:11

I know what you're saying Mike and I agree with you in principle. I think that both the corners and those stiles can be slimmed down proportionally though.
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Re: Stile construction

Postby StevieB » 12 Feb 2018, 23:11

Make sure to leave enough 'meat' to hang the doors off though :eusa-think: I agree with Mike - the corners will be hard to get that thin so then you run the risk of losing continuity overall.

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Re: Stile construction

Postby Mike G » 13 Feb 2018, 08:53

They can be slimmed down, Roger, but this is a Georgian-style building and if you slim those pilasters down you'll have a Georgian roof on a modern conservatory. It might look somewhat contrived. If you slim down the support, then visually you'll need to slim down the horizontals above.....fascia and mouldings. You'll have lost all of the Georgian features except for the leadwork.
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Re: Stile construction

Postby RogerS » 13 Feb 2018, 17:26

Thank chaps for some very good points. I will re-consult with my 'client' !
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Re: Stile construction

Postby RogerS » 20 Feb 2018, 12:09

Draft design No 1

Plan is to make a basic frame for each wall. Doors and windows will all be the same, drop ins into the frame.

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Re: Stile construction

Postby Mike G » 20 Feb 2018, 14:19

There doesn't look to be anything between the window heads and the roof, so it looks weirdly skinny up there. And it's HUGE!
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Re: Stile construction

Postby RogerS » 20 Feb 2018, 17:01

Mike G wrote:There doesn't look to be anything between the window heads and the roof, so it looks weirdly skinny up there. And it's HUGE!


A good spot. I need to put the frame in. Focus was to getting the proportions right for the windows, doors and elliptical mouldings.

HUGE ? Only 8m wide. I've kept the intermediate stiles between windows and doors 'chunky'.

I've also not shown all the fancy stuff around the top. I'm proposing to make a hidden gutter from wood and EDPM covering. Then plant on mouldings similar to what's in the photo.
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Re: Stile construction

Postby Mike G » 20 Feb 2018, 20:00

Well 8m is somewhat bigger than your average garden shed! Is this a cunningly concealed workshop? :lol:
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Re: Stile construction

Postby RogerS » 20 Feb 2018, 20:06

Mike G wrote:Well 8m is somewhat bigger than your average garden shed! Is this a cunningly concealed workshop? :lol:


No, it's for LOML and her gardening. I'm slumming it in the garage.
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Re: Stile construction

Postby RogerS » 06 Mar 2018, 22:38

Mmmmm...this project might be still-born 'as is' because I can't find anyone to to the roof lead work. Even thinking about enrolling on a 3 day lead bossing course (but haven't told SWMBO that) although handling all those rolls of lead is probably beyond my strength.
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Re: Stile construction

Postby TrimTheKing » 06 Mar 2018, 23:06

RogerS wrote:Mmmmm...this project might be still-born 'as is' because I can't find anyone to to the roof lead work. Even thinking about enrolling on a 3 day lead bossing course (but haven't told SWMBO that) although handling all those rolls of lead is probably beyond my strength.


Until my workshop build I didn't appreciate the sheer weight of lead! A half roll of 8" took both hands to lift off the floor!! I'm no weakling but size/weight ratio is ridiculous!
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Re: Stile construction

Postby Doug » 06 Mar 2018, 23:13

Shame you’re so far away Rog, rolls are fairly straight forward not a great deal of bossing mainly on the bottom ends & if you cut the roll stick at an angle on those ends you reduced the bossing considerably.
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Re: Stile construction

Postby RogerS » 08 May 2018, 12:32

Well, the leadman told me just how much the roof was going to cost...eye-wateringly expensive and way outside our budget being into five figures :o

So, design change to something like this

orangerie roof.jpg
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So wondering about how to make the lantern roof. Tempted to go for polycarbonate and aluminium
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Re: Stile construction

Postby 9fingers » 08 May 2018, 13:38

I was only looking for a rough price over the weekend and found these people who seem very reasonable.

Not looked at reviews or anything else yet

https://www.roofglaze.co.uk/products/ko ... f-lantern/

hth

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Re: Stile construction

Postby RogerS » 08 May 2018, 15:42

It's a tricky one. Had a quick look at one site and the price was£5k. Mind you self_cleaning glass low energy. Neither of which we need. Thinking about making it using timber but a lot of detailing to think about.I
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Re: Stile construction

Postby Mike G » 09 May 2018, 07:42

I'm designing 2 orangeries at this very moment. When designing it, Roger, be very aware of the ends of the rooflight opening, and their relationship with the glazing at the front, because either side of the opening will be some big timbers which carry almost all of the weight of the roof and the lantern. They can't just bear onto glazing, and they're a point load, so place a big strain on your front lintel. Don't forget also that if you are insulating this then the insulation will almost certainly have to sit on top of the roof joists, not between, because you won't be able to get airflow into the 50mm (min) void above the insulation (there's too much in the way). This will make the roof build up quite thick (like 350mm +). Above all, try to keep the roof span down to about 3.9m, otherwise the engineering gets quite onerous.

The lantern is well within your capabilities. It's a simple timber frame, with a system of commonly available aluminium profiles which hold the glass in place. A weekend job, not more.
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Re: Stile construction

Postby 9fingers » 09 May 2018, 10:32

I've been googling for ideas on the structural methods used for lantern rooves and see that one or two show a long lanterns split into two parts which I presume must ease the distribution of structural loads somewhat allowing extra rafters across the narrow dimension and far shorter trimmers(?) along the length of the window.

The one I'm doodling at the moment is a 1m x 2m lantern set in a 2m x 3.5m roof so quite trivial compared to typical orangeries.

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Re: Stile construction

Postby RogerS » 11 May 2018, 14:53

Thanks both for those idea and recommendations. Food for thought there.

My main concern is sealing the lantern onto the flat area.

Mike...you mentioned aluminium profiles. Do you have any links as when I Google that term I just get window makers.
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Re: Stile construction

Postby Mike G » 11 May 2018, 15:26

RogerS wrote:My main concern is sealing the lantern onto the flat area.


You build an upstand, and sit the lantern on that:

Image

Mike...you mentioned aluminium profiles. Do you have any links as when I Google that term I just get window makers.


Here's some random ones:

https://conservatoryparts.co.uk/parts-shop/roof-systems/sunwood-timber-glazing-bars/

https://www.trulypvc.com/conservatory-parts/glazing-bars/screw-down-bars/45mm-alukap-xr-glazing-main-bar

http://www.patent-glazing.com/rafterline-patent-glazing-bars.html

Search "patent glazing", or "conservatory glazing bars".
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Re: Stile construction

Postby RogerS » 11 May 2018, 15:56

That's very helpful, thanks, Mike. I guess it's the detailing that has me puzzled. Where the bottom of each sheet of glass sits...but I'll take a look at those links you provided and they may give me the necessary.
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Re: Stile construction

Postby Mike G » 11 May 2018, 16:13

The glass overhangs, and is captured either by a flat hook, or by the end caps of the glazing system. Or, you can get double glazed units where the top sheet of glass overhangs the bottom sheet by an inch or two at the lower edge, and you put a stop in to hold the bottom piece only.
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