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Which Glue?

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Which Glue?

Postby Woodbloke » 11 Sep 2020, 08:05

Right chaps, some thoughts needed from the forum populace please. The current major project in the 'shop is a jewellery box in Indian Rosewood with a solid panel lid:

IMG_4902.jpg
(257.17 KiB)


IMG_4903.jpg
(235.31 KiB)


Now I've never used this stuff before and although it's a wonderful exotic, it's as hard as Hades and very, very brittle. It's also virtually impossible to plane, even with a very high effective pitch on my low angle plane(s) so it's a case of scraping and sanding.

As you can see, I'm halfway through the jointing and nowhere near the gluing stage yet, but thoughts about a suitable glue have been percolating through the grey matter over the last couple of days. I want to give myself as much time as possible during the 'glue up' phase so I've been considering some proper 'old skool' epoxy which goes off solid over a 24hr period. There's also Cascamite which has a long 'open time' but it sets glass hard so I'm not too sure about it....

Bear in mind also, that Rosewood is a bit 'oily' so the question remains; what to use to give me the longest time to glue up? I think I may have answered my own question, but I'd be interested to see what others would use in similar circumstances - Rob
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Re: Which Glue?

Postby Mike G » 11 Sep 2020, 08:47

Blimey, does it matter? :) I mean, that'll hang together forever without any glue at all! Personally, I'd probably use PU.
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Re: Which Glue?

Postby sunnybob » 11 Sep 2020, 08:57

I've made loads of boxes with rosewood and similar hardwoods.
Ordinary wood glue works well, but set up time is weather dependant. in the normal UK weather temps you get a couple of minutes to adjust. Any temp over 30 and it acts like superglue. Get it right first time and leave it alone.

If you want extended working time, get Titebond 3. Even in my Cyprus summer temps of high 30's you still get several minutes. In UK temps that could easily stretch to 10 minutes before you have to accept defeat.
One downside of Titebond 3 though, is it dries a dark brown. Bad news on light wood, but wont be seen on rosewood with well fitting joints.

And I always allow enough wood to sand, sand, and then one sanding before its finished.
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Re: Which Glue?

Postby Woodbloke » 11 Sep 2020, 10:24

Mike G wrote:Blimey, does it matter? :) I mean, that'll hang together forever without any glue at all! Personally, I'd probably use PU.

Never used PU either Mike!...I may have a little experimentation though :D I think I need to cut a practice joint in the Rosewood and then glue it to find out what it's like

sunnybob wrote:I've made loads of boxes with rosewood and similar hardwoods.
Ordinary wood glue works well, but set up time is weather dependant. in the normal UK weather temps you get a couple of minutes to adjust. Any temp over 30 and it acts like superglue. Get it right first time and leave it alone.

If you want extended working time, get Titebond 3. Even in my Cyprus summer temps of high 30's you still get several minutes. In UK temps that could easily stretch to 10 minutes before you have to accept defeat.
One downside of Titebond 3 though, is it dries a dark brown. Bad news on light wood, but wont be seen on rosewood with well fitting joints.

And I always allow enough wood to sand, sand, and then one sanding before its finished.

I've got TB3 currently in my Gluebot, but 10 minutes ain't going to give me enough time to get all four dovetailed corners together as well as making sure that the cramping pressure on the joints and mitres pulls everything up righty tighty - Rob
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Re: Which Glue?

Postby sunnybob » 11 Sep 2020, 11:06

A very light misting of water will increase the time. And if the temp is well below 20, I think TB3 is the way to go.
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Re: Which Glue?

Postby MY63 » 11 Sep 2020, 11:11

I cant help with glue I just wanted to say that is going to be a stunning box.
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Re: Which Glue?

Postby Woodbloke » 11 Sep 2020, 11:59

MY63 wrote:I cant help with glue I just wanted to say that is going to be a stunning box.

Thanks, I hope so barring any horrendous goofs and gaffs (it has been known :lol:) With any luck and following wind (preferably gale force), it should :eusa-pray: ...

1366_jewellery_box_in_ripple_sycamore_010.jpg
(12.17 KiB)


...look something like the box above, but the moon on this one will be in Birds Eye Maple, so the little 'swirls' in the maple ought to replicate the craters on said Moon - Rob
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Re: Which Glue?

Postby Mike G » 11 Sep 2020, 15:16

Woodbloke wrote:
Mike G wrote:Blimey, does it matter? :) I mean, that'll hang together forever without any glue at all! Personally, I'd probably use PU.

Never used PU either Mike!...I may have a little experimentation though......


Don't, whatever you do, get it on your skin. It turns a nasty dark brown that takes days to get off.
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Re: Which Glue?

Postby RogerS » 11 Sep 2020, 17:20

Mmmm...I'm not a great fan of PU glue. It foams all over the place and is a sod to clean up afterwards. I'd also go for TB or your D4, Rob.
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Re: Which Glue?

Postby Woodbloke » 11 Sep 2020, 17:53

RogerS wrote:Mmmm...I'm not a great fan of PU glue. It foams all over the place and is a sod to clean up afterwards. I'd also go for TB or your D4, Rob.


After some long ponderation today, I've gone for Araldite Standard (the proper 'old skool' stuff) which will give me a huge amount of time to get everything snugg and pulled up. I know the stuff is hideously expensive but I found a supplier on Fleabay who were flogging it at a 'reasonable' :eusa-whistle: price, so SWIMBO bought me five 36g packs (separate tubes so the 'real deal') for the princely sum of about £18, postage inc. which ain't too shabby. Consider it's nearly £7 a pop at Ax (and elsewhere) so it's a very respectable saving - Rob

Edit- just as a matter of interest, when I was teaching I used the stuff to glue an ali faceplate onto a motor shaft to make a disc sander for the workshop. At some point later on, another member of staff tried to remove it by belting the plate with successive almighty 'haymakers', using a heavy forge hammer from the metalwork 'shop next door. After about six or seven swings at the plate he was completely cream-crackered :lol: but the ali plate refused to budge. As far as I know, it's still there.
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Re: Which Glue?

Postby MY63 » 11 Sep 2020, 18:26

Woodbloke wrote:
MY63 wrote:I cant help with glue I just wanted to say that is going to be a stunning box.

Thanks, I hope so barring any horrendous goofs and gaffs (it has been known :lol:) With any luck and following wind (preferably gale force), it should :eusa-pray: ...

1366_jewellery_box_in_ripple_sycamore_010.jpg


...look something like the box above, but the moon on this one will be in Birds Eye Maple, so the little 'swirls' in the maple ought to replicate the craters on said Moon - Rob


Yep that is what I thought it would look like, can I ask what hinges you are using. I get mine from Fine Box Hardware nice guy cool hinges but not a budget option.
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Re: Which Glue?

Postby Mike G » 11 Sep 2020, 18:37

RogerS wrote:Mmmm...I'm not a great fan of PU glue. It foams all over the place and is a sod to clean up afterwards. I'd also go for TB or your D4, Rob.


No, I'm not a fan either. But certain varieties can give you the open time you need, and it's great if you ever need to glue wet or green wood, where little else will work.

It is, however, easy to clean up. You've got to get the timing right, when it has set but not gone hard. Then it just peels off nicely with a chisel, knife or scraper. You don't need much of the stuff. It shouldn't be foaming all over the place.
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Re: Which Glue?

Postby Woodster » 11 Sep 2020, 20:40

RogerS wrote:Mmmm...I'm not a great fan of PU glue. It foams all over the place and is a sod to clean up afterwards. I'd also go for TB or your D4, Rob.


I have to agree. PU is good for gap filling glue ups though. I’m still looking for a decent non-creep adhesive other than Cascamite.
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Re: Which Glue?

Postby Woodbloke » 11 Sep 2020, 21:53

MY63 wrote:
Yep that is what I thought it would look like, can I ask what hinges you are using. I get mine from Fine Box Hardware nice guy cool hinges but not a budget option.


That must be the chap from Belfast, Ian Hawthorne. His stuff is a direct copy of the original hinges that Andrew Crawford makes called smartHinge and these are the ones I use. Again, very expensive but well worth it - Rob
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Re: Which Glue?

Postby sunnybob » 12 Sep 2020, 06:51

Being as that araldite was so reasonable.... check the use by date when it arrives. :shock:

The last tube of titebond 3 I bought was 8 years out of date but I did not know how to read their date codes at that time. It worked well for another 18 months though before it finally stopped gluing.
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Re: Which Glue?

Postby RogerS » 12 Sep 2020, 09:07

sunnybob wrote:...but I did not know how to read their date codes at that time. I....


Tell us more !
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Re: Which Glue?

Postby sunnybob » 12 Sep 2020, 10:22

All titebond glue bottles have a date of manufacture stamped on them
Its usually around the neck, but I havent had all sizes of bottle so am not sure.

The first two digits of that code is the year of manufacture. My last bottle was dated 09. I bought it from a shop in 18, but being unaware, I used it as normal. It was a big bottle and 18 months later it was still about a third full, but it went lumpy and would not stick.
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Re: Which Glue?

Postby Woodster » 12 Sep 2020, 10:38

As a point of interest my WT club went on an Axminster visit. One of the things mentioned during the warehouse tour was Titebond adhesives. They don’t order stocks of it during the winter as a batch was ruined by extreme cold whilst in transit. I believe it’s manufactured in Canada.
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Re: Which Glue?

Postby sunnybob » 12 Sep 2020, 10:47

Titebond literature has capital letters stating KEEP FROM FREEZING, so thats possible if its in a container in the north atlantic in february.
I dont have that problem :lol:
I can state that titebond 3 works extremely well up to and past 40c with 90% humidity 8-) 8-)
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Re: Which Glue?

Postby Woodbloke » 21 Sep 2020, 18:00

sunnybob wrote:Being as that araldite was so reasonable.... check the use by date when it arrives. :shock:


The year of manufacture was Sept 2019, so plenty of leeway. I did the glue up this afternoon and it went really well; the 'old skool' Araldite didn't 'grab' in any way and acted rather like a lubricant than a glue as the whole thing just slid together really smoothly. The longest part of the whole process was making the corner blocks for the cramps and then cleaning up the inside corners of the lid with meths afterwards. I think I'll use this stuff again as it provides a total hassle free (if somewhat expensive) gluing up process - Rob
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Re: Which Glue?

Postby Phil » 23 Sep 2020, 09:28

Mike G wrote:
Woodbloke wrote:
Mike G wrote:Blimey, does it matter? :) I mean, that'll hang together forever without any glue at all! Personally, I'd probably use PU.

Never used PU either Mike!...I may have a little experimentation though......


Don't, whatever you do, get it on your skin. It turns a nasty dark brown that takes days to get off.



Yes, and on your t-shirt, shorts, face .................................. :o
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Re: Which Glue?

Postby Woodbloke » 24 Sep 2020, 17:14

Woodbloke wrote:Never used PU either Mike!...I may have a little experimentation though......


Saw 'The Repair Shop' last night and Will 'the woodmaestro' Kirk was using some PU to glue a rickety old cradle together; didn't see him make any sort of mess with the stuff though, unless the 'clean up' shots were edited out by the Beeb afterwards - Rob
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Re: Which Glue?

Postby Rod » 25 Sep 2020, 00:06

I’ve got some Titebond 3 which I bought many years ago, still in its original bottle.
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