It is currently 29 Mar 2024, 02:44

Lousy Jet electronic reliability

This forum is for any general questions, queries or plain old chinwaggery on Woody stuff in general.

Lousy Jet electronic reliability

Postby RogerS » 11 Feb 2015, 16:19

The SandSmart circuit board on my Jet 22-44 sander started playing up. After talking things through with Axminster service, they recommended a replacement circuit board. It fixed the problem - at a price - £120+

This morning the Jet AFS-1000B air filter started playing up. Low speed - just buzzed and motor turned slowly. Middle speed setting - spun up nicely. Top speed - no significant increase in speed and buzzing in the background. Replacement controller diagnosed. That'll be £64+ please.

Now it's not as if either machine is on 24/7 - both can go for days without being switched on.

The fact that the AFS-1000B controller is out of stock suggests to me that they must fail quite often.

My mains supply is clean.

So on this basis would I buy Jet again?

Simple answer - No.
If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door.
User avatar
RogerS
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 13291
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Nearly finished. OK OK...call me Pinocchio.
Name:

Re: Lousy Jet electronic reliability

Postby chataigner » 11 Feb 2015, 18:48

You must be very pi***** off, however, your sample of one is not statistically significant, you could be just very unlucky.

Reliability is a very interesting subject to which forums (fora?) such as ours could contribute a lot by gathering info from enough users to be statistically meaningful and also unbiased.

It would be interesting to hear if other forum members have Jet machines with (or without) problems.
Anyone out there...
Cheers !
Chataigner in Périgord-Limousin National park
http://www.rue-darnet.fr
User avatar
chataigner
Old Oak
 
Posts: 1063
Joined: 23 Jul 2014, 08:02
Location: Périgord-Limousin National Park, SW France
Name: David

Re: Lousy Jet electronic reliability

Postby TrimTheKing » 11 Feb 2015, 18:55

I've got the smaller AFS500 and the16-32 and the spindle sander and they all work fine, but as per Roger's they've not had much work in the past 12 months. Who knows what will happen next time I fire them up...

Cheers
Mark
Cheers
Mark
TrimTheKing
Site Admin
 
Posts: 7568
Joined: 16 Jun 2014, 13:27
Location: Grappenhall, Cheshire
Name: Mark

Re: Lousy Jet electronic reliability

Postby RogerS » 11 Feb 2015, 18:57

chataigner wrote:You must be very pi***** off, however, your sample of one is not statistically significant, you could be just very unlucky.
.....



True. But the fact that they are out of stock of one of the items suggests I am not alone.
If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door.
User avatar
RogerS
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 13291
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Nearly finished. OK OK...call me Pinocchio.
Name:

Re: Lousy Jet electronic reliability

Postby kirkpoore1 » 11 Feb 2015, 19:13

I never had any problems with my Jet bandsaw before I sold it. But it didn't have any electronics on it, either. I had a variable speed grinder once (late 80's) that cost me $60, and when the circuit board went out they wanted $40 for a replacement. I tossed it and bought a good single speed grinder for $75 that I use to this day.

I'm afraid I have to ask--did those items need variable speed? Can you just use the air filter on medium speed?

Bob will probably be along to tell you how to check the board for bad solder joints and blown resisters or diodes or something like that...

Kirk
User avatar
kirkpoore1
Old Oak
 
Posts: 1043
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 22:12
Location: O'Fallon, Illinois
Name: Kirk

Re: Lousy Jet electronic reliability

Postby RogerS » 11 Feb 2015, 19:22

The SandSmart is needed as it detects if the drum sander is being overloaded and will slow the feed down to compensate automatically. Works rather well.

I guess I could run the air filter on medium but TBH the maximum really sucks the dust.

I've already applied the 'black, broken or smoking' rule of thumb approach to electronic fault finding and without a circuit diagram it's almost impossible to maintain.
If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door.
User avatar
RogerS
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 13291
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Nearly finished. OK OK...call me Pinocchio.
Name:

Re: Lousy Jet electronic reliability

Postby Frank » 11 Feb 2015, 22:05

Strange you should post this today Roger as this morning I was in my local tool/turning supplier who has just started to stock a limited range of Jet machinery so I had the opportunity to cast my eye over their latest offerings.
On the whole I wasn't that impressed with what I saw, in the dim & distance past I owned Jet machinery & whilst I will admit my memory isn't what it used to be but the new gear didn't look to have the same built quality of the Jet machinery I used to own. I wonder if their manufacture has gone the way of so many brands!

My only suggestion would be to search the internet as there used to be a very helpful chap who had a web site only selling Jet machinery, he was a lot cheaper than Axminster & knew Jet inside out. Unfortunately I can't remember his name, he was up North & if still going would be well worth searching out, perhaps other forum members may remember him though I am going back a few years.

Best of luck sorting your machines.

Kind regards,

Frank.
Frank
Seedling
 
Posts: 43
Joined: 20 Sep 2014, 11:21
Name:

Re: Lousy Jet electronic reliability

Postby 9fingers » 11 Feb 2015, 23:14

Some readers may recall the problems with the Jet 260mm planer that was the smallest of a range of machines but the only one without a spindle lock. I must have made around 20 retrofit locking kits for JET owners round the world - the last two went off to Oz just before Christmas.
Finally jet have redesigned the machine and newer models have a lock.

There have been problems with one of their pillar drills - written up elsewhere
The whole business indicates that some JET products are designed down to a price and the quality is suffering.

On the electronics side, they appear to be suffering now not only with the machines mentioned in this topic but also I had one of their whetstone grinders in for repair a couple of years back with an electronic failure.

I used to be a JET fan but now I'm more sceptical.

Bob
Information on induction motors here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dBTVXx ... sp=sharing
Email:motors@minchin.org.uk
User avatar
9fingers
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 10038
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 20:22
Location: Romsey Hampshire between Southampton and the New Forest
Name: Bob

Re: Lousy Jet electronic reliability

Postby kirkpoore1 » 12 Feb 2015, 01:38

9fingers wrote:
On the electronics side, they appear to be suffering now not only with the machines mentioned in this topic but also I had one of their whetstone grinders in for repair a couple of years back with an electronic failure.

I used to be a JET fan but now I'm more sceptical.

Bob


Over here, it seems to me that Jet is being positioned as a mid-price brand. Jet is owned by WMH, which also owns Powermatic. Powermatic used to be a higher end woodworking machine company with a good consumer product line but also a very large industrial planer (i.e. thicknesser) line, which has mostly been dropped. WMH bought Powermatic in 1999 and ran Powermatic in parallel with Jet, and a lot of the two brands' tools looked just the same with either yellow or white paint. In 2013, though, WMH was bought out by a private equity firm (https://www.facebook.com/woodmagazine/posts/10152274343514815). Since that time it seems to me that Powermatic is being marketed as a premium brand, while Jet is now the lower cost brand. There have been a few Powermatic machines brought out that I haven't seen with a Jet equivalent, for example.

I think, then, that Jet is being dumbed down/value engineered/made cheaper. I don't know if you have Powermatic over there, but if not it seems to me that you're losing a viable machine choice.

Kirk
User avatar
kirkpoore1
Old Oak
 
Posts: 1043
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 22:12
Location: O'Fallon, Illinois
Name: Kirk

Re: Lousy Jet electronic reliability

Postby chataigner » 12 Feb 2015, 08:06

Anecdotal evidence only - but many years ago I was marketing director of a manufacturer of high quality industrial electronic control units typically sold to end users or systems integrators in quantities of 1-20 or so. Several times we had enquiries from machine makers of various types for massive quantities and, almost without exception, the outcome of the negotiations was that the machine maker decided to design and build something themselves to keep the price down. Very unsettling since these were typically small firms with a mechanical design team of two or three people with only superficial knowledge of electronics, if that.
Cheers !
Chataigner in Périgord-Limousin National park
http://www.rue-darnet.fr
User avatar
chataigner
Old Oak
 
Posts: 1063
Joined: 23 Jul 2014, 08:02
Location: Périgord-Limousin National Park, SW France
Name: David

Re: Lousy Jet electronic reliability

Postby RogerS » 12 Feb 2015, 13:23

This is the reply I got back from Axminster.

I am sorry that you have had a few problems with the PCB's on the JET machines. They are in general very reliable but as with any product that is mass produced there is the odd 1 or 2 that may fail and any that are faulty from manufacture would generally fail within the first year and are covered by the warranty.
It might be worth getting the motors checked in the machines in case the PCB's have failed from a spike back from the motor. It would see how it would be rather frustrating if they were to fail again if the cause of the issue was not detected.
I hope this may be useful for you and I apologise for the issues you have had.


Any comments re the suggestion of a 'spike' back from the motor? Just exactly how does a dc motor generate a spike? Or an induction motor for that matter.

Do electronics fail in the first year usually ? Smells to me of BS.

EDIT: Just came across this article regarding the Sale of Goods Act and six years http://www.theguardian.com/money/2011/f ... guaranteed

We shall see.
If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door.
User avatar
RogerS
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 13291
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Nearly finished. OK OK...call me Pinocchio.
Name:

Re: Lousy Jet electronic reliability

Postby chataigner » 12 Feb 2015, 13:42

Perhaps Bob can comment on the motor issue, I'm not qualified, but I can confirm that the failure characteristics of electronic systems follow what is called the bathtub curve. That is, relatively high initial failure (under 12m) falling steeply (the tap end of the bathtub), followed by a fairly flat bottom with minimal failures, typically 10yrs or so, then rising gently with time (the reclining end of the bath).

Google "bathtub curve"...
Cheers !
Chataigner in Périgord-Limousin National park
http://www.rue-darnet.fr
User avatar
chataigner
Old Oak
 
Posts: 1063
Joined: 23 Jul 2014, 08:02
Location: Périgord-Limousin National Park, SW France
Name: David

Re: Lousy Jet electronic reliability

Postby 9fingers » 12 Feb 2015, 13:48

Brush motors especially create spikes and yes this is a common failure mode of nearby electronics.
Induction motors create spikes when turned on and off and also when the centrifugal switches open/close (if fitted) when starting.
Reliability of electronic systems tend to follow the classic bathtub reliability curves. In military systems this is minimised by burn in tests but at the price point of consumer items, this is unaffordable. The design and protection from spikes will be as frugal as they can get away with.

Axminster's response is perfectly reasonable and no BS. There is however, a hint of slope shoulders in preparation for any future problems you might have.

Bob

I fully endorse David's post which has crossed with mine.
Information on induction motors here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dBTVXx ... sp=sharing
Email:motors@minchin.org.uk
User avatar
9fingers
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 10038
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 20:22
Location: Romsey Hampshire between Southampton and the New Forest
Name: Bob

Re: Lousy Jet electronic reliability

Postby RogerS » 12 Feb 2015, 18:46

Well I went back to Axminster and they have excelled themselves and I am a very happy bunny.
If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door.
User avatar
RogerS
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 13291
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Nearly finished. OK OK...call me Pinocchio.
Name:

Re: Lousy Jet electronic reliability

Postby Phil » 13 Feb 2015, 18:13

I have just bought a JWL 1220, with a straight forward motor and belt drive and no electronics as such.

So, ............. hopefully no problems.

Cheers
Phil
We don't stop woodworking because we grow old, we grow old because we stop woodworking!

https://www.instagram.com/phil_pretoria/
User avatar
Phil
Old Oak
 
Posts: 3499
Joined: 23 Jul 2014, 05:11
Location: Southern Africa 0054
Name: Phil

Re: Lousy Jet electronic reliability

Postby TrimTheKing » 13 Feb 2015, 18:17

RogerS wrote:Well I went back to Axminster and they have excelled themselves and I am a very happy bunny.
Care to extrapolate...?
Cheers
Mark
TrimTheKing
Site Admin
 
Posts: 7568
Joined: 16 Jun 2014, 13:27
Location: Grappenhall, Cheshire
Name: Mark


Return to General Woodworking

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 27 guests

cron