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CORE Tool Kit

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Re: CORE Tool Kit

Postby TheTiddles » 04 Sep 2014, 21:00

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Re: CORE Tool Kit

Postby Woodbloke » 04 Sep 2014, 21:22

TheTiddles wrote:There's only two things you need in a toolkit, a hammer and a condom, if you can't fix it with a hammer, f*#k it.


:lol: - Rob

Edit:…and a track saw :eusa-whistle: - Rob
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Re: CORE Tool Kit

Postby stephen.wood125 » 04 Sep 2014, 22:30

gaffer tape and WD40... If it moves and it shouldn't tape it, if it doesn't move and it should spray it!
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Re: CORE Tool Kit

Postby Loghead » 07 Sep 2014, 12:35

This is what LOML bought me for a wedding present in 1962.

Stanley No. 4.
Marples Chisels 1/4" 1/2" 5/8", 1"
Marples Marking gauge, (Scratchy-nail type)
Marples Mortice Gauge
6" Try Square (Rosewood and steel )
Sliding bevel Rosewood and steel.
Mallet
Cross-peen hammer
Pincers
Panel Saw (Cross-cut)
Combination India stone
Brace and 12 Bits (Ridgeway) 1/4" up to 1 and a 1/4"
Coping Saw
13 ppi steel-backed tenon saw (Cross-cut)


Cost-wise, it was a significant sum in those days and I knew I'd have to take care of it. I think the quality speaks for itself, as the only thing I have lost is the original brace, which was stolen in the late sixties. Probably my fault for leaving a door open!

HTH Rob. :D
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Re: CORE Tool Kit

Postby Woodbloke » 07 Sep 2014, 16:22

Loghead wrote:This is what LOML bought me for a wedding present in 1962.

Stanley No. 4.
Marples Chisels 1/4" 1/2" 5/8", 1"
Marples Marking gauge, (Scratchy-nail type)
Marples Mortice Gauge
6" Try Square (Rosewood and steel )
Sliding bevel Rosewood and steel.
Mallet
Cross-peen hammer
Pincers
Panel Saw (Cross-cut)
Combination India stone
Brace and 12 Bits (Ridgeway) 1/4" up to 1 and a 1/4"
Coping Saw


13 ppi steel-backed tenon saw (Cross-cut)


Cost-wise, it was a significant sum in those days and I knew I'd have to take care of it. I think the quality speaks for itself, as the only thing I have lost is the original brace, which was stolen in the late sixties. Probably my fault for leaving a door open!

HTH Rob. :D


:text-goodpost:
Many thanks John, a good answer to my question. I think a great deal of that is still relevant today though I'd probably update it to reflect current trends, but in essence, it's a good list. I've had replies back from many teaching establishments and it's been quite educative to see the differences and common denominators in the replies - Rob
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Re: CORE Tool Kit

Postby Graham Haydon » 19 Sep 2014, 11:49

I must admit Rob it's a noble quest but also a well trodden path with plenty of good examples out there already. Most recently it has been Schwarz, before that nearly all joinery books have a "Tool Chapter" right from the 1970's all the way back to Moxon, then there is Hayward with his Tool Book (one of my faves)

I wonder if there is much mileage in this concept. The plane must be a type???? Veritas custom, LN A2, Bronze Body, Bevel Up, Bevel Down :shock:. We'll be here forever :lol:

On the term "lifetime" as long as the tools are good they last. Although not modern and sexy, India stones, S&J Saws, Bailey Planes, Blue Chip Chisels and the like have lasted in some cases more than two peoples lifetimes and are in 90% of cases for 90% of woodworkers up to the job.

I hope I have not missed the point Rob as it is a sweet idea. I think also 90% have a good few items just for a bit of fun ;)
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Re: CORE Tool Kit

Postby Phil » 19 Sep 2014, 18:51

Not being too much into this hand thingy stuff .................

Steel engineers square - a large one and a small one
Brace and some good bits
Metal rules of 1000mm and 500mm
Some good drawing equipment like Staedtler stuff
Stanley #3
Stanley marking gauge

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Re: CORE Tool Kit

Postby Woodbloke » 02 Oct 2014, 17:35

Just a little update on this one chaps. I've had replies from around nine (or so) teaching 'shops and colleges inc. Barnsley's, Chichester College and David Charlesworth, to name but three. The lists make quite interesting reading so my next task is to try and find some common denominators and from this, put together a basic, core list of top quality hand tools which I can let Ian Styles have in a couple of weeks for his consideration and we'll see where it goes from there.
Interestingly, almost all the people I contacted required good quality, branded marking-out squares such as Starrett or M/W, which is something that Ax (at the moment) don't stock, but there's a possibility that they may do in the future. The thing that wasn't factored in at the time I made enquiries was the new range of Veritas BD custom planes, so that's probably one more item to fit into the equation - Rob
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Re: CORE Tool Kit

Postby kirkpoore1 » 02 Oct 2014, 23:03

The thing about planes is that the types overlap so much. If you're talking about a set of core tools, you almost need to say you need, for example, four planes (smoother, jack or possibly jointer, block, and rabbet) to cover the basics, and then explain how the others fit in around them.

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Re: CORE Tool Kit

Postby Froggy » 07 Oct 2014, 17:23

Hi Everyone, Rob about 6/7 years ago when I started woodworking and joined the ukw I asked a similar question to the one Coley answered. Back then you were kind enough to send me a comprehensive answer which I followed and it served me well, thank you. But your slightly different slant on that question is intriguing to me now. I would love to know what answers you have had from those others you have posed it to. I still consider myself a beginner, albeit with a little experience now, and would like to know what the experts think are good value long term essentials. A part of me thinks that to go to the next level I need to buy the more expensive LN, Veritas, etc. brands, but I am still reluctant to pay out that sort of money without being sure that it will make a positive difference to my woodworking or be good value for money in the long term.
My only experience so far with the more expensive brands is when I bought a single 1" LN bevel chisels with a view to buying the rest of the set if it was that much better than the off-the-shelf set of Stanley chisels I bought 7 or so years ago. I haven't bought the rest of the set because I don't notice any difference in the chisels.
In an effort to contribute a little to your research I do think that my eze lap diamond stones are a good quality product and I wish I had bought them before buying all the oil and water stones I bought first.

Cheers Froggy.
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Re: CORE Tool Kit

Postby Woodbloke » 07 Oct 2014, 17:42

Froggy wrote:I would love to know what answers you have had from those others you have posed it to. I still consider myself a beginner, albeit with a little experience now, and would like to know what the experts think are good value long term essentials.
Cheers Froggy.

Froggy, many thanks for your reply and I'm chuffed that you found my recommendations on 'the other place' useful. As regards the replies I've had, they're pretty varied but there are common factors running through which I need to tease out. F'rinstance, almost all the replies mentioned a No4.5 plane (from the big three) as opposed to a No4 with the exception being the Barnsley 'shop who like a No7.

Either way, once I've done my evaluation of the results, I'll post a list on this thread - Rob
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Re: CORE Tool Kit

Postby Froggy » 07 Oct 2014, 17:54

Look forward to seeing those results Rob. For what it's worth on the size of planes - if I had to choose one it would be the 5 1/2 (mines a Stanley).
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Re: CORE Tool Kit

Postby Woodbloke » 07 Oct 2014, 18:13

Froggy wrote:Look forward to seeing those results Rob. For what it's worth on the size of planes - if I had to chose one it would be the 5 1/2 (mines a Stanley).


Sorry, just read wot I writ and it should be a No5.5, not 4.5 as stated. Apologies - Rob
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Re: CORE Tool Kit

Postby Peter Sefton » 07 Oct 2014, 21:19

The 5 1/2 is the goto plane and the first one I recommend to my students.
I know David Savage used to recommend the 6 and as you say Barnsley the 7. I think this harks back to Alan Pete's who loved his 7. This used to be my plane of choice before the quality brands came along. It was one of the Stanley/record planes that had weight within it. My 5 1/2 would be the Clifton or the WR if the budget won't stretch.
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Re: CORE Tool Kit

Postby Froggy » 08 Oct 2014, 12:45

Peter Sefton wrote: My 5 1/2 would be the Clifton or the WR if the budget won't stretch.


Hi Pete, What's 'WR' please?
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Re: CORE Tool Kit

Postby Newbie_Neil » 08 Oct 2014, 15:35

Froggy wrote:
Peter Sefton wrote: My 5 1/2 would be the Clifton or the WR if the budget won't stretch.


Hi Pete, What's 'WR' please?


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Re: CORE Tool Kit

Postby Froggy » 08 Oct 2014, 19:23

Cheers Neil
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Re: CORE Tool Kit

Postby Woodbloke » 04 Nov 2014, 23:22

Having had a close look at all the replies, it's been very interesting to try and pick out the common denominators, but the list I submitted to Ian Styles is as follows for a high end, cabinet makers core kit of hand tools:

PLANES
Heavy Jack 5½
Block plane 60½

CHISELS

3mm chisel
Set of 5, O1

MARKING & MEASURING

Square 150mm
150mm rule
600mm rule
Wheel marking gauge
Marking knife

SAWS

Dovetail
Tenon
Piercing saw

MISC

Card scraper set

H&S

Safety specs
Ear defenders
Dust masks

Remember please, this is a basic core kit which can be added to as a student progressed through his or her course. It also assumes that the student will have full access to (and will learn how to use) woodworking machinery that may be found in any pro 'shop. I'm hopeful that Ax will pursue this exercise and we'll see developments in the not too distant future - Rob
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Re: CORE Tool Kit

Postby Rod » 05 Nov 2014, 01:08

I don't see where this is going - that list looks like a very basic tool kit for any woodworker - I cannot see where the high end is coming from unless you are going to be more specific by saying all tools should be LN, LV or Holtey?
There's been lots of tool lists published on Forums.

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Re: CORE Tool Kit

Postby Frank » 05 Nov 2014, 07:45

Whilst I understand the concept that this is a basic kit, if the student had access to a full range of machinery then I would have thought a No4 or 4 1/2 would have been a more suitable plane as it is only needed for finishing.
I agree a No5 - 5 1/2 is a more all rounder but from this criteria the need for stock preparation seems to have been removed.

Kind regards,

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Re: CORE Tool Kit

Postby Wizard9999 » 05 Nov 2014, 08:23

Rod wrote:I don't see where this is going - that list looks like a very basic tool kit for any woodworker - I cannot see where the high end is coming from unless you are going to be more specific by saying all tools should be LN, LV or Holtey?
There's been lots of tool lists published on Forums.

Rod


Yes, I think much earlier in the thread there was a request for specific makes to be specified when people put forward their suggestions. Seems pretty clear from what Rob has said that where this may be going is into a box and then the Axminster catalogue. Maybe there will be more than one option in terms of make for some items so people can fit the core tool kit to their budget.

My hope would be that if this is being aimed at students, extra cost would not be built in by specifying it with a fancy case, etc. to keep cost down, and that for genuine students looking to start a career through their studies there would be a very hefty discount on the package to support them at the start of their 'journey'. Otherwise I agree to the very significant question over the purpose of this exercise.

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Re: CORE Tool Kit

Postby Woodbloke » 05 Nov 2014, 10:06

Rod wrote:I don't see where this is going - that list looks like a very basic tool kit for any woodworker - I cannot see where the high end is coming from unless you are going to be more specific by saying all tools should be LN, LV or Holtey?
Rod


You're right Rod, it is a very basic kit of high end tools and is based on the stuff that Rob Ingham recommended for his students at Parnham House years ago in the 80's, but I can tell you that the list, as published, comes to well over £1300.

Wizard9999 wrote:Yes, I think much earlier in the thread there was a request for specific makes to be specified when people put forward their suggestions. Seems pretty clear from what Rob has said that where this may be going is into a box and then the Axminster catalogue. Maybe there will be more than one option in terms of make for some items so people can fit the core tool kit to their budget.

My hope would be that if this is being aimed at students, extra cost would not be built in by specifying it with a fancy case, etc. to keep cost down, and that for genuine students looking to start a career through their studies there would be a very hefty discount on the package to support them at the start of their 'journey'. Otherwise I agree to the very significant question over the purpose of this exercise.

Terry.


Spot on Terry. Makes of tools have not been specified deliberately as some of the items listed aren't, at the moment, stocked by Axminster. This is very much an academic exercise and may or may not go forward…I really don't know. If it does move on, then the tools which aren't available could be stocked and the whole kit offered as one package, with the possibility of different options for makes within it (i.e. LN or V planes etc). I make the assumption that there would be some sort of discount for bona fide students, but again, I have no idea what it may be, and wouldn't even like to hazard a guestimation.

So, to sum up, it's very much a 'watch this space' sort of affair now. I've done what I was asked to do (i.e. the research) and come up with some conclusions based on that research, so there isn't much more I can do, or say for that matter, until if and when the ball starts rolling - Rob
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Re: CORE Tool Kit

Postby 9fingers » 05 Nov 2014, 10:14

Even I have some of the tools on that list Rob! :shock:

I even found some of them when tidying up prior to Terry's visit last Saturday.

No handsaw on your list? maybe more of a site worker's tool perhaps.

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Re: CORE Tool Kit

Postby Woodbloke » 05 Nov 2014, 10:41

9fingers wrote:Even I have some of the tools on that list Rob! :shock:

I even found some of them when tidying up prior to Terry's visit last Saturday.

No handsaw on your list? maybe more of a site worker's tool perhaps.

Bob

You mean the No4 door stop Bob? :lol: Nope…no handsaw and no sharpening gear either - Rob
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Re: CORE Tool Kit

Postby 9fingers » 05 Nov 2014, 10:57

Woodbloke wrote:
9fingers wrote:Even I have some of the tools on that list Rob! :shock:

I even found some of them when tidying up prior to Terry's visit last Saturday.

No handsaw on your list? maybe more of a site worker's tool perhaps.

Bob

You mean the No4 door stop Bob? :lol: Nope…no handsaw and no sharpening gear either - Rob


Yup a number 4 and even a 4-1/2 for windy days :lol:

Leaving out sharpening is possibly wise as it will depend on the trainee/trainer which methods they use.
Possibly something to get with the first months wages maybe.

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