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Metalworking machines for a woodworker?

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Metalworking machines for a woodworker?

Postby meccarroll » 15 Jan 2017, 21:09

Hi all, I know some of you chaps are or have been in the engineering industry and moved your skills over to woodwork. I'm thinking about doing the opposite but only for hobby reasons.

Recently I've been thinking about jigs and machine fence adaptions, sliding carriages, hold down devices etc, well not only recently but for quite some time. I have a welding machine (mig welder) and some hand tools but thats about it for metalwork, no it's not I have a tap and die set on the way.

I have made a few items from metal but it's mainly been sheet metal and if I have wanted to make an item which is fastened with threads I have to weld a nut onto the sheet metal to hold the thread. It's a bit ugly and clumsy hence the tap and die set.

I have started to think that maybe I want to take things further, so I was wondering about a metalwork lathe to turn items and maybe a milling machine too. Does anyone have any ideas? which machines might be suitable at a reasonable price. I probably won't need to use them that much but so maybe a few hundread rather than thousand pounds.

Just thinking about options at the moment so if there are is any guidance out there I'd appreciate the input.

Mark
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Re: Metalworking machines for a woodworker?

Postby 9fingers » 15 Jan 2017, 21:46

It can depend on how much space you have as the larger machines tend to be cheaper than the classical hobby machines such as Myfords.
As with woodworking machines, the bigger stuff tends to be 3 phase but that is not a problem with inverters which can offer the added advantage of variable speed.

If you want to stick with the hobby sized machines, then although machines lint the unimat are surprising capable, they can be just too small to be versatile enough for the odd jobs that crop up.

Again as with woodwork, the Chinese machines dominate the lower end of the hobby market with clones of the same design turning up with a variety of badges. Here the support offered in terms of spares and warranty is very variable.
Axminster and Warco support is very good and possibly Chester less so and the prices reflect that.

A lathe with 75-100mm swing over the bed (150-200 mm diameter) and 500mm between centres would be a useful size. You will need a minimum of a 3 and a 4 jaw chuck and a faceplate is handy too
A mill such as one of the 6 x 26 types (that is the table size in inches) will accept work pieces say 150 x 400 mm with relative ease and large with some guile and cunning.

If you are buying used then be careful not to pick up something that is either badly worn or is a Friday afternoon machine that the vendor is trying to get rid of.
If you are not too familiar with metalworking machines then possibly take someone with you who is and NEVER buy without seeing and trying first. Avoid the boxes of parts where someone has started and given up on a restoration project. Private bereavement sales can be a good source to not only pick up the machine but also the related tooling.

hth
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Re: Metalworking machines for a woodworker?

Postby Rod » 15 Jan 2017, 22:00

It's a bit of a slippery slope and can become quite expensive - it all depends on what you think you might make?
You can go for S/H British makes like Myford, Boxford etc or New or newish far eastern makes like Warco, Chester etc

I started Clock Making with a tiny Austrian made Unimat which I bought "fully equipped" S/H.
I also bought a slightly bigger Warco lathe which can cope with bigger sections.
You'll need cutting tools, collets, taps and dies, callipers, lathe jaws, chucks, drills etc etc

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Re: Metalworking machines for a woodworker?

Postby meccarroll » 15 Jan 2017, 22:20

Thank you for the reply Bob.

I'll look over what you have written and take all of it into consideration. Space wise I am limited, ok when I'm not too busy but it can be a bit cramped if I'm making several items at once.

I think I'll probably go for second hand rather than Chinese. The Chinese imported wood saws often look very good and seem to offer good value for money but all to often they are so lacking in the essential elements that make a good saw.

I don't know what you think but the myford 7 looks about the right type of thing.

Do you know of any good forums for metalwork?

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Re: Metalworking machines for a woodworker?

Postby 9fingers » 15 Jan 2017, 22:34

I'm very happy with my Myford ML7RB but a decent example with chucks etc will be the wrong side of a grand.
They are no longer made so there are dwindling sources of spares from the outfit that bought the name and the remaining stocks . They claim to be designing a new product but it has gone very quiet in the last few years.

I also have a Myford badged 6 x24 VMC Mill - precursor of the 6x26. The Chinese machines are reasonably well built if a little unrefined but loads cheaper than a decent used Myford.

I would not recommend using metalworking tools where there is wood dust present. The wood dust will wick out all the oil from the slideways and get into the feedscrews causing them to jam and need periodic stripping and cleaning which will be very time consuming.

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Re: Metalworking machines for a woodworker?

Postby meccarroll » 15 Jan 2017, 22:50

Rod wrote:It's a bit of a slippery slope and can become quite expensive - it all depends on what you think you might make?
You can go for S/H British makes like Myford, Boxford etc or New or newish far eastern makes like Warco, Chester etc

I started Clock Making with a tiny Austrian made Unimat which I bought "fully equipped" S/H.
I also bought a slightly bigger Warco lathe which can cope with bigger sections.
You'll need cutting tools, collets, taps and dies, callipers, lathe jaws, chucks, drills etc etc

Rod



Cheers rod, I'll take a look at Warco and Chester but from a woodwork point of view and from what I've seen of the chinese stuff I'd probably lean toward secondhand british or European.

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Re: Metalworking machines for a woodworker?

Postby meccarroll » 15 Jan 2017, 23:01

9fingers wrote:I'm very happy with my Myford ML7RB but a decent example with chucks etc will be the wrong side of a grand.
Bob


I have looked Bob and I can already see you have a point. I'm just going to have to consider all the options and if needed up my budget.


9fingers wrote:I would not recommend using metalworking tools where there is wood dust present. The wood dust will wick out all the oil from the slideways and get into the feedscrews causing them to jam and need periodic stripping and cleaning which will be very time consuming.
Bob


More problems to consider :eusa-think:

Thank's for the advice.

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Re: Metalworking machines for a woodworker?

Postby Mike G » 15 Jan 2017, 23:30

One thing I would add to all the advice you have received so far is that woodworking and metal working in the same space is quite difficult to manage. Metal-working is intrinsically dirty, and can make a shared area difficult to use for higher-end woodwork. Further, saw-dust (and finer) turn into a nasty gunk on contact with oils and grease associated with metal-working machinery, so your metal working machines need protection from woodworking too. Ideally you would have two separate workshops, but if you can't you really need curtains and covers to keep the activities separate and the machinery clean.
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Re: Metalworking machines for a woodworker?

Postby Rod » 15 Jan 2017, 23:45

I haven't looked for a while but there used to be the Model Engineer Forum.

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Re: Metalworking machines for a woodworker?

Postby Tusses » 16 Jan 2017, 10:36

to add to Mike's comment ... I wouldn't metalwork in a woodwork shed, as usually with metal you will need to make sparks at some point. grinding for example. Any sawdust can catch a spark and it will smoulder un-noticed for hours after you have locked up and gone home/in the house ! Always too much of a fire risk for me.
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Re: Metalworking machines for a woodworker?

Postby Tusses » 16 Jan 2017, 10:38

I have a 100 yr old Patrick lathe BTW .. but not used it for a while for the reasons above.
I'm hoping to get a separate shed up for metalworking, some time soon.
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Re: Metalworking machines for a woodworker?

Postby 9fingers » 16 Jan 2017, 11:33

To be honest grinding should be done well away from other metalwork machinery.
Slideway oil and grinding dust make an effective grinding paste!!

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Re: Metalworking machines for a woodworker?

Postby Robert » 16 Jan 2017, 12:26

Interesting thread.

Back when I was in business we occasionally punched custom perforations into hardboard on one of our CNC metal punch presses. The slideways and leadscrews got covered in dust but although it looked nasty it never did any harm as the grease seals kept it out of the bearings. So I'd say wood dust is unsightly but not always damaging to metalworking machines.

Grinding is though and that was never allowed in the machine shop. we had a room with extraction for that. Mind you the extraction did deposit some metal dust on the cars parked outside causing micro rust spots burned into the paint on my company car at the time.

I've often thought I'd like a metal lathe of some kind at home. used to have a big Harrison lathe in the factory and 2 Taylor metal spinning lathes. the Harrison was sold with the building and the Taylors went to wood turners via ebay.
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Re: Metalworking machines for a woodworker?

Postby 9fingers » 16 Jan 2017, 12:40

Robert wrote:Interesting thread.

Back when I was in business we occasionally punched custom perforations into hardboard on one of our CNC metal punch presses. The slideways and leadscrews got covered in dust but although it looked nasty it never did any harm as the grease seals kept it out of the bearings. So I'd say wood dust is unsightly but not always damaging to metalworking machines.

Grinding is though and that was never allowed in the machine shop. we had a room with extraction for that. Mind you the extraction did deposit some metal dust on the cars parked outside causing micro rust spots burned into the paint on my company car at the time.

I've often thought I'd like a metal lathe of some kind at home. used to have a big Harrison lathe in the factory and 2 Taylor metal spinning lathes. the Harrison was sold with the building and the Taylors went to wood turners via ebay.


Robert, I think the point is that hobby machines very rarely have feed screw protection or bearings with seals and relatively large slideway areas can collect a lot of dust. My lathe does have felt wipers on the saddle to bed interface but the cross slide and top slide are unprotected.

On odd occasions I have turned wood but laid paper towels out to protect as much as possible and cleaned the rest off and re-oiled. Maybe I'm a bit anal over this?

Also certain sorts of wood dust - oak especially could stain the bare surfaces. My lathe is about 37 years old and and in near new visual condition.

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Re: Metalworking machines for a woodworker?

Postby Rod » 16 Jan 2017, 13:13

I haven't the space for separate sheds so my lathes are in my one and only workshop. I keep the metal ones covered up when not in use and have never had any problems with wood dust.

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Re: Metalworking machines for a woodworker?

Postby Tusses » 16 Jan 2017, 14:52

I agree bob .. I'd keep grinding away from anything .. I was just pointing out that the hot bits can land in sawdust and be a problem

this is my Patrick lathe .. I don't have many pics ... this is when I dragged it into the workshop

Image



I like restoring old stuff ...


Bagged a freebee smaller one too, not got round to commissioning it yet though.

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