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DIY power take of switch - how hard can it be?

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DIY power take of switch - how hard can it be?

Postby Andyp » 16 Oct 2018, 15:44

Being as I managed to wire a relay without too much trouble :eusa-whistle: I thought I might hava a go at making a power take off switch to hang on the side of my numatic.

If I get one of these, or similar if there are cheaper variants, this one is about 26 euro locally.
https://www.kemo-electronic.de/en/Trans ... -V-AC-.php
Put into a box with a couple of sockets, one for the vac, the other the tool, and a lead to the mains it should be a doddle, no?

Any flaws in my plan?
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Re: DIY power take of switch - how hard can it be?

Postby RogerS » 16 Oct 2018, 17:41

Andyp wrote:Being as I managed to wire a relay without too much trouble :eusa-whistle: I thought I might hava a go at making a power take off switch to hang on the side of my numatic.

If I get one of these, or similar if there are cheaper variants, this one is about 26 euro locally.
https://www.kemo-electronic.de/en/Trans ... -V-AC-.php
Put into a box with a couple of sockets, one for the vac, the other the tool, and a lead to the mains it should be a doddle, no?

Any flaws in my plan?


None that I can see.
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Re: DIY power take of switch - how hard can it be?

Postby 9fingers » 17 Oct 2018, 08:45

Should work but beware the current limitation of 16 amps for the total of master plus slave loads.
Of course this can be extended by adding a relay but you will know all about that Andy :lol:
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Re: DIY power take of switch - how hard can it be?

Postby Andyp » 17 Oct 2018, 09:48

I was hoping not to complicate things any further by adding a relay. My guess is that the Kapex saw and the Numatic dust extractor would both pull 10amp each at least so I guess I am stuffed unless I can find a higher rated switch.

the Axminster device seems hellishly expensive.

as is this one
https://www.toolovation.co.uk/product_p/sb24016_eu.htm
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Re: DIY power take of switch - how hard can it be?

Postby RogerS » 17 Oct 2018, 09:58

Which Numatic do you have, Andy ? Twin motors ? if so then you only need one with the Kapex which at 1200w isn't too bad. I'll pop out to the workshop and measure the load of the Kapex.

You could protect you unit by sticking in a fuse in the supply to it although I'm not sure if it would blow fast enough to protect the semiconductors in the gizmo. Bob, any thoughts ?
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Re: DIY power take of switch - how hard can it be?

Postby 9fingers » 17 Oct 2018, 10:03

Andyp wrote:I was hoping not to complicate things any further by adding a relay. My guess is that the Kapex saw and the Numatic dust extractor would both pull 10amp each at least so I guess I am stuffed unless I can find a higher rated switch.

the Axminster device seems hellishly expensive.

as is this one
https://www.toolovation.co.uk/product_p/sb24016_eu.htm

But the relays is THE way to have a higher rated switch only limited by the contact rating of the relay instead of the sensor device.
Build on what you have learned already in your relay experiences?

Bob
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Re: DIY power take of switch - how hard can it be?

Postby 9fingers » 17 Oct 2018, 10:24

RogerS wrote:Which Numatic do you have, Andy ? Twin motors ? if so then you only need one with the Kapex which at 1200w isn't too bad. I'll pop out to the workshop and measure the load of the Kapex.

You could protect you unit by sticking in a fuse in the supply to it although I'm not sure if it would blow fast enough to protect the semiconductors in the gizmo. Bob, any thoughts ?


No thermal type fuse will be fast enough to protect semiconductors above their rated working current.

These devices use semiconductors to detect the current (back to back diodes) and a triac to switch the load.
However the way they have implemented this with no doubt a printed circuit board inside and captive wires for the connections brings in the limitation on the SUM of the currents of the master and slave.
This relationship can be de-coupled by the use of a relay as the slave current now will solely be that of the relay coil. ie 10% of bu**er all

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Re: DIY power take of switch - how hard can it be?

Postby Andyp » 17 Oct 2018, 10:43

RogerS wrote:Which Numatic do you have, Andy ? Twin motors ? if so then you only need one with the Kapex which at 1200w isn't too bad. I'll pop out to the workshop and measure the load of the Kapex.

You could protect you unit by sticking in a fuse in the supply to it although I'm not sure if it would blow fast enough to protect the semiconductors in the gizmo. Bob, any thoughts ?


The Numatic is an NVQ372, not twin motor but it does have two "power" settings.

The IVAC switch I linked to from Toolovation is also rated at a total 16amp surely it is not possible to have a tool and a vacuum with a total amperage of less than 16amp?
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Re: DIY power take of switch - how hard can it be?

Postby Andyp » 17 Oct 2018, 10:44

9fingers wrote:
Andyp wrote:I was hoping not to complicate things any further by adding a relay. My guess is that the Kapex saw and the Numatic dust extractor would both pull 10amp each at least so I guess I am stuffed unless I can find a higher rated switch.

the Axminster device seems hellishly expensive.

as is this one
https://www.toolovation.co.uk/product_p/sb24016_eu.htm

But the relays is THE way to have a higher rated switch only limited by the contact rating of the relay instead of the sensor device.
Build on what you have learned already in your relay experiences?

Bob


That was over a year ago Bob.
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Re: DIY power take of switch - how hard can it be?

Postby RogerS » 17 Oct 2018, 12:13

Andyp wrote:
9fingers wrote:
Andyp wrote:I was hoping not to complicate things any further by adding a relay. My guess is that the Kapex saw and the Numatic dust extractor would both pull 10amp each at least so I guess I am stuffed unless I can find a higher rated switch.

the Axminster device seems hellishly expensive.

as is this one
https://www.toolovation.co.uk/product_p/sb24016_eu.htm

But the relays is THE way to have a higher rated switch only limited by the contact rating of the relay instead of the sensor device.
Build on what you have learned already in your relay experiences?

Bob


That was over a year ago Bob.


Time to now consolidate your learning, grasshopper. :D
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Re: DIY power take of switch - how hard can it be?

Postby Andyp » 17 Oct 2018, 13:08

Were you able to check the festool's load Roger?
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Re: DIY power take of switch - how hard can it be?

Postby RogerS » 17 Oct 2018, 13:33

Andyp wrote:Were you able to check the festool's load Roger?



Just done it. Not much use though as the meter is too slow to register the initial peak. But tthe label on the Kapex :eusa-whistle: says 1200W. I'm running it on my PTO on the vacuum which says max 1490W and I'm guessing that it's solid-state. Seems perfectly happy.

If it were me I'd suck it and see.
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Re: DIY power take of switch - how hard can it be?

Postby Andyp » 17 Oct 2018, 13:44

Not sure want that means in terms of how many amps. All I wanted to do was rig a small double socket box with that master slave switch inside. If I start adding a relay the box is going to get a bit big.

Perhaps this is why the Axi one is so expensive.

At the risk of Bob saying I told you so I could do as you suggest and see what happens. Or rig the saw to the dust extractor and use my remote.

I'll sleep on it.
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Re: DIY power take of switch - how hard can it be?

Postby RogerS » 17 Oct 2018, 14:08

Andyp wrote:Not sure want that means in terms of how many amps. All I wanted to do was rig a small double socket box with that master slave switch inside. If I start adding a relay the box is going to get a bit big.

Perhaps this is why the Axi one is so expensive.

At the risk of Bob saying I told you so I could do as you suggest and see what happens. Or rig the saw to the dust extractor and use my remote.

I'll sleep on it.


Grandma..eggs etc but you do appreciate that you need two separate sockets ?

1200 watts = about 5A
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Re: DIY power take of switch - how hard can it be?

Postby RogerS » 17 Oct 2018, 14:09

RogerS wrote:
Andyp wrote:Not sure want that means in terms of how many amps. All I wanted to do was rig a small double socket box with that master slave switch inside. If I start adding a relay the box is going to get a bit big.

Perhaps this is why the Axi one is so expensive.

At the risk of Bob saying I told you so I could do as you suggest and see what happens. Or rig the saw to the dust extractor and use my remote.

I'll sleep on it.


Grandma..eggs etc but you do appreciate that you need two separate sockets ?

1200 watts = about 5A


Do you have a link to the Axi one ?
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Re: DIY power take of switch - how hard can it be?

Postby Andyp » 17 Oct 2018, 14:34

RogerS wrote:
Grandma..eggs etc but you do appreciate that you need two separate sockets ?

1200 watts = about 5A


yes Roger see my detailed plan in the OP ;)

Here is the Axi one albeit a bit different from what I am planing.

https://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-a ... it-ax21176
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Re: DIY power take of switch - how hard can it be?

Postby Doug » 17 Oct 2018, 18:37

I bookmarked this company when I was thinking of getting a vac switch a couple of years ago but bought a second hand Hitachi vac with power take off instead.

https://www.toolovation.co.uk/iVAC_vacu ... _s/153.htm

Considerably cheaper than Axminster though no surprise there.
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Re: DIY power take of switch - how hard can it be?

Postby Andyp » 18 Oct 2018, 06:15

Thanks Doug, that’s the one I linked to earlier which is rated at a combined 16amp for master and slave, the same as the switch I was considering to use in order to make by own.
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Re: DIY power take of switch - how hard can it be?

Postby Doug » 18 Oct 2018, 07:00

Sorry Andy I shouldn’t skim through threads :oops:
Personal experience of 3 different makes of remote socket was they didn’t last long, perhaps they’ve got better over the last couple of years but I was very disappointed with them.
Have you thought of getting another vac with power take off, I couldn’t believe how much they’ve come down in price when I was looking at them recently. Plus it’s always handy to have a second vacuum if only for cleaning the filters etc on the first one.
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Re: DIY power take of switch - how hard can it be?

Postby Andyp » 18 Oct 2018, 08:47

Thanks Doug, yes I had considered buying another vac but a) I do not have the space for another one and b) the one I have is excellent, quite, powerful and for the most part sits in the workshop doing nothing and getting in the way.

Extraction for the lathe, TS, BS and Planer is via the Canvac/Cyclone and I could use this for the mitre saw too but as I am building a cabinet for the saw I thought I could chuck the Numatic in underneath and make a PTO switch for ease of use.

Further cogitation and pontification required.
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Re: DIY power take of switch - how hard can it be?

Postby Malc2098 » 18 Oct 2018, 08:54

I can't complain about this one, Andy.

https://www.aldi.co.uk/workzone-dry-%26-wet-vacuum-cleaner/p/086452234741600

It's plugged into the Kapex, but I also use it for sanding, drilling, mortising, routing and general bench and floor cleaning.

The big iTech I use just for the TS & P/T.
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Re: DIY power take of switch - how hard can it be?

Postby Andyp » 18 Oct 2018, 13:55

Thanks Malc, I want to make better use of the kit I have, I certainly don't need another vac at the moment.
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Re: DIY power take of switch - how hard can it be?

Postby Rod » 18 Oct 2018, 16:58

I’ve got a power take off on my Macallister but I operate a lot of other stuff using wireless plug sockets. Very cheap and work well.

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