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12V push button 2 way switch

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Re: 12V push button 2 way switch

Postby Pete Maddex » 02 Dec 2020, 10:35

A double pole double throw switch would replace everything, and if you had a double pole double throw center off switch you could stop the motor at any point.

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Re: 12V push button 2 way switch

Postby John Brown » 02 Dec 2020, 11:32

Pete Maddex wrote:A double pole double throw switch would replace everything, and if you had a double pole double throw center off switch you could stop the motor at any point.

Pete

If only it would work with the Harry Potter/escape room hidden switch vibe...
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Re: 12V push button 2 way switch

Postby Sheffield Tony » 02 Dec 2020, 11:34

I guess your relay solution looks to do the job Pete. The relay coil is on when the mechanism is in one state or the other so you might want to look out for a high-ish coil resistance. But an electronic solution would probably have some standby consumption too.

The other problem for an electronic solution is the stall current of the motor, which will probably be much higher than the nominal current. Sudden stops, or reversals of the motor might see you driving a load of <1ohm briefly. I have generated a lot of smoke gaining a good understanding of this problem !
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Re: 12V push button 2 way switch

Postby Pete Maddex » 02 Dec 2020, 12:12

Thats why I advised he relay to be off at the down position, so for the greatest time it would draw no current.

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Re: 12V push button 2 way switch

Postby Sheffield Tony » 02 Dec 2020, 13:54

I'm not sure all this electrickery fits with that carved oak really. Perhaps a hydraulic solution with a foot pedal, or maybe mechanical with a winding handle ? :lol:
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Re: 12V push button 2 way switch

Postby Pete Maddex » 02 Dec 2020, 14:25

Comely wench for that period look...

:D :shock:

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Re: 12V push button 2 way switch

Postby Tiresias » 02 Dec 2020, 14:45

Maybe this sort of thing.

spit the dog.jpg
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Re: 12V push button 2 way switch

Postby Pete Maddex » 02 Dec 2020, 14:47

I am sure a suitable spit boy could be procured from the street urchins in the local vilage....


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Re: 12V push button 2 way switch

Postby AndyT » 02 Dec 2020, 15:56

Pete Maddex wrote:I am sure a suitable spit boy could be procured from the street urchins in the local vilage....


Pete


Sorry Pete but I think you and Tony have already "volunteered" yourselves for alternate weeks! - it's the only way to find out whose solution is best. :)

Either that or Mike needs to make a sort of Paternoster lift for the TV so it can go round and round on an endless loop while remaining the right way up. He just needs to turn the motor off when it's in the right position. (He may need to rebuild the wall at the back of the cabinet a bit to make more room, but I'm sure it will be worth it.) ;)

Seriously though, there's some great pooling of expertise going on in this thread.
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Re: 12V push button 2 way switch

Postby Andyp » 02 Dec 2020, 16:18

Tiresias wrote:Maybe this sort of thing.

spit the dog.jpg


he could go modern than that

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Re: 12V push button 2 way switch

Postby novocaine » 02 Dec 2020, 16:25

lots of analogue solutions, this still seems very much like the perfect use for a little microprocessor (Arduino style) and a pair of relays. a teeny limit switch to stop the motion and tell the brains to switch to the other direction next time (basically an if loop).
I promised to shut it though, so I'm going back in my cave. :)
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Re: 12V push button 2 way switch

Postby John Brown » 02 Dec 2020, 18:48

novocaine wrote:lots of analogue solutions, this still seems very much like the perfect use for a little microprocessor (Arduino style) and a pair of relays. a teeny limit switch to stop the motion and tell the brains to switch to the other direction next time (basically an if loop).
I promised to shut it though, so I'm going back in my cave. :)

That's what I said. You could even make it zero power when idle(well, FET leakage current only), since the limit switches effectively record the state.
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Re: 12V push button 2 way switch

Postby novocaine » 02 Dec 2020, 20:14

John Brown wrote:That's what I said. You could even make it zero power when idle(well, FET leakage current only), since the limit switches effectively record the state.


Yep I saw tha, and it's what I said way back on page one, but I also knew what Mike would say, him being a bit "old school" and all that. :)
the current required to run such a simply program, I wouldn't be bothered by how much power it's using, it's going to cost something like a penny a year. more power lost to leakage than it would require.
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Re: 12V push button 2 way switch

Postby John Brown » 02 Dec 2020, 20:29

novocaine wrote:
John Brown wrote:That's what I said. You could even make it zero power when idle(well, FET leakage current only), since the limit switches effectively record the state.


Yep I saw tha, and it's what I said way back on page one, but I also knew what Mike would say, him being a bit "old school" and all that. :)
the current required to run such a simply program, I wouldn't be bothered by how much power it's using, it's going to cost something like a penny a year. more power lost to leakage than it would require.

I can't help it. Having done a lot of work on stuff expected to run forever on a CR2032, I automatically think like that. But also, I like the idea of a power on reset every time you press the button. Also probably unnecessary, but when I started doing this stuff, I worked with a chap who worried that the microprocessor would get bored and make mistakes if given am over simple repetitive task....
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Re: 12V push button 2 way switch

Postby Mike G » 02 Dec 2020, 20:43

Blimey, you guys have been busy on my account whilst I've been at work!! :)

Let me tell you that my first suggestion for this piece of furniture involved a wood and brass ships wheel, some bicycle chain, and a whole lot of gears. The design team agreed that we needed to do "classy" rather than "quirky", hence the recourse to electrickery.

I really appreciate everyone having a crack at this. Those circuit diagrams don't mean much to me, and the thought of involving a microchip (Arduino-thingy) brings me out in shivers. Urchins demand feeding and paying these days, I'm afraid, and our pooch isn't motivated by food so a dog treadmill wouldn't work. I think I have all the kit together, and my first stab at this will be electro-mechanical. If it doesn't work, I shall ask DaveL of this parish which of the alternatives is the least difficult, and head down that route.

I think this thread shows a couple of things very clearly: firstly, we have some knowledgeable and helpful people here on the forum, and, secondly, that there are always many ways to solve a problem. Many thanks indeed for all the suggestions and help.
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Re: 12V push button 2 way switch

Postby DaveL » 02 Dec 2020, 21:25

John Brown wrote:I can't help it. Having done a lot of work on stuff expected to run forever on a CR2032, I automatically think like that. But also, I like the idea of a power on reset every time you press the button. Also probably unnecessary, but when I started doing this stuff, I worked with a chap who worried that the microprocessor would get bored and make mistakes if given am over simple repetitive task....


I remember back in the 70's working on a processor based phone (for the Army) that used an 1802 processor, we were power fed over the phantom. They allowed us 2 watts, the final design came in at just under a watt.
It used to be common practice to have a watch dog timer on any real time processor controlled design. The processor would reset the timer once every pass round the main loop. If it hung due to a bad input signal or a bug the timer would expire and reboot the system.
I doubt we need a watch dog timer on Mikes TV lift.
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Re: 12V push button 2 way switch

Postby Sheffield Tony » 02 Dec 2020, 21:48

Given the garbage on TV at the moment, watching it pop up and down will most likely be the best bit.
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Re: 12V push button 2 way switch

Postby John Brown » 02 Dec 2020, 23:15

DaveL wrote:
John Brown wrote:I can't help it. Having done a lot of work on stuff expected to run forever on a CR2032, I automatically think like that. But also, I like the idea of a power on reset every time you press the button. Also probably unnecessary, but when I started doing this stuff, I worked with a chap who worried that the microprocessor would get bored and make mistakes if given am over simple repetitive task....


I remember back in the 70's working on a processor based phone (for the Army) that used an 1802 processor, we were power fed over the phantom. They allowed us 2 watts, the final design came in at just under a watt.
It used to be common practice to have a watch dog timer on any real time processor controlled design. The processor would reset the timer once every pass round the main loop. If it hung due to a bad input signal or a bug the timer would expire and reboot the system.
I doubt we need a watch dog timer on Mikes TV lift.

I think you'll find watchdog timers are still very much alive and kicking in the embedded world, and I don't believe that a simple program is immune to to glitches. But it's all fairly irrelevant, as Mike wants a non electronic solution.
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Re: 12V push button 2 way switch

Postby Mike G » 02 Dec 2020, 23:52

John Brown wrote:.......it's all fairly irrelevant, as Mike wants a non electronic solution.


Only because that's all I can do myself. If I had any better electronic skills or knowledge, I'd be happy for something more whizzy......
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Re: 12V push button 2 way switch

Postby Steve » 11 Mar 2021, 20:51

Mike G wrote:
John Brown wrote:.......it's all fairly irrelevant, as Mike wants a non electronic solution.


Only because that's all I can do myself. If I had any better electronic skills or knowledge, I'd be happy for something more whizzy......


Mike

Did you ever find that switch? Are you still looking for it?

If so, there is a company called RJS who make what you were looking for, I think.

rjselectronics.com

Item RJS102-19LA-H-R~67J as a starting point. They make dozens of different types.

https://www.rjselectronics.com/products ... la-h-r67j/
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Re: 12V push button 2 way switch

Postby Mike G » 12 Mar 2021, 08:47

Thanks Steve. I did it with micro-switches, and it worked nicely, but there would be fewer connections and a simpler mechanism if I used this switch, which looks exactly what I want. I'll be re-visiting the project probably in the autumn, and will take a closer look at the switching then. Many thanks. Oh, and welcome to the forum.
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