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Table Saw

Here's the place to talk about all your table saws, bandsaws, routers and dust extractors. In fact anything that makes noise and uses electrickery.

Re: Table Saw

Postby Phil » 22 Jan 2016, 07:39

Commander wrote:Thanks Phil, that would be great, I have sent you a PM.


Received and e-mail sent with address and contact details.

Cheers
Phil
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Re: Table Saw

Postby Commander » 25 Jan 2016, 06:14

I started work on my first small sled, not too much to show yet, but I was able to make the 2 rails that slide in the mitre slots. They fit very snugly, so that should make for some accurate cuts.

P.S. it was great meeting you Phil! Had a nice chat and picked up some useful tips!
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Re: Table Saw

Postby Phil » 07 Feb 2016, 08:53

Erich, don't fprget the pics of the sled making!

It was good to meet you and put a face to a name.

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Re: Table Saw

Postby Commander » 08 Feb 2016, 06:40

Hey Phil, likewise! I have had time to work on the sled (among other things) on the weekend. (Check the tread I will add to the "Machines & Power Toolery" section, I will need your help soon!)

I built my sled with the sled made by Matthias Wandel in mind, the dimensions are not the same, but the idea and design is very similar. First step was making the guide rails for the sled, I cut them roughly to size with the table saw. I used a piece of Emboya hard wood I got from my father in law. I used a hand plane to trim it down to size (naturally I tried to get the fit as tight as possible with the strip still being able to slide comfortably). I then glued and screw the strip to the melamine base (I had a piece left over from making extra shelves for the kitchen cabinets).
After that I cut the melamine base in half using the rail in the mitre slot to make sure the cut is exactly parallel to the rail. The next step was to plane the rear fence so it is flat, I looked for a piece of 114x38 that was not warped too badly and planed it by hand until it was square and had no wobbles left (a power planer would have been better, but I don't have access to one, yet!)

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Here I am glueing the rear fence on.

I did the same thing with the front fence making sure both fences are parallel and square to the blade.

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Here is the final product, I have already setup the sled for cutting the bridle joints for my saw base, hence the depth stop and the stopper to keep the board in place. I will post some more photos after I have removed the blocks, I just want to make all the cuts first! (I got a bit carried away after finishing the sled!)

*edit - Here are 2 more pics of the sled without the bridle joint jig clamped in place.

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Last edited by Commander on 22 Feb 2016, 11:53, edited 1 time in total.
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Table Saw stand frame

Postby Commander » 08 Feb 2016, 06:46

Here are a couple of quick photos of the beginnings of the bridle joints I intend to use for the saw stand frame. I used the sled to make multiple parallel cuts and then knocked it out with a hammer and did some very light trimming. Once I made the slot half of the joints I will fine tune for size. (lumber size is 114x38, so it should be nice and strong!)

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Cutting boards to size with my home made square and circular saw.

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Push stick

Postby Commander » 08 Feb 2016, 07:01

I also took a moment (after sharpening my chisels and itching to try them out) to make a push stick. I know the more conventional push sticks are made of flat stock cut to shape with a band saw or the like, but I had a piece of brandering laying around and no band saw, so thought I would give it a try and see how it turns out.

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First I rounded the edges to make for a comfortable grip.

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Then I cut some notches in the front end to help hook on to the work piece.

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I added some shallow finger grooves to aid grip.

I finished by sanding it down, masking the front tip (to avoid transferring paint to the work piece when pushing it through the blade) and painted it a silly colour (to avoid misplacing it amongst the rest of the stock!)
Since I have been using the sled I haven't really had a chance to try it out, but I'm sure it will work well enough.
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Re: Table Saw

Postby Andyp » 08 Feb 2016, 09:45

You might like to try and find a suitable piece of clear shatter proof Perspex or similar to place between the front and back of your sled about 3 inches wide and positioned directly over the blade will prevent projectiles coming flying up at you.
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Re: Table Saw

Postby Commander » 08 Feb 2016, 11:35

Andyp wrote:You might like to try and find a suitable piece of clear shatter proof Perspex or similar to place between the front and back of your sled about 3 inches wide and positioned directly over the blade will prevent projectiles coming flying up at you.


Thats a good idea Andy, thanks for the tip!
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Re: Table Saw

Postby Commander » 22 Feb 2016, 12:20

I had some time last weekend to carry on working on the frame for the table saw base. The next challenge was to make the other halves of the bridle joints, I tried a couple of different methods with varying levels of success. First I tried cutting the slot required up right on the table saw, this worked fairly well except for the fact that the slot was much too shallow.

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P.S. I did make sure not to cut into my clam, that would have been a disaster!
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The fit was fairly tight, just way too shallow.

I then set about clamping a make shift fence in place with a stopper so as to prevent me from cutting the slots too deep. The problem with this was that I currently don't have a proper fence so I had to clamp a piece of wood in place. This worked fairly well, but due to the clamping my accuracy suffered a bit...

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I then set out chopping the waste out with a chisel. At first it was a bit of a struggle, but as I got into it it went well. In the end I'm happy with the result, if you ignore the fact that my table saw cuts weren't nearly as good as they aught to be...

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In the end most of the joints fit fairly well, one is pretty bad though...

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At least it is square!

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The dry fit looks good.

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Last step was the glue up, this turned out to be a lot harder than I imagined. The glue also took long to dry, probably due to the size of the joint and the excess play on some of the joints. I also made some thin spacers and wedges to try and take up the slack in the joints.

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After taking off the clamps the next day the frame seems nice and sturdy. If I ever do this again I will most likely just use half lap joints. Considering that these joints are 114mm x 114mm they should be strong enough and it would be MUCH simpler to get right. That being said, I did learn a lot in making these!

Next step will be cleaning up all the excess and filling the remaining holes, then sanding down before adding the rest of the frame.
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Re: Table Saw

Postby DaveL » 22 Feb 2016, 14:33

Making spacers was a good idea but I would recommend that you don't use end grain. Glue holds best long grain to long grain. I have a few bits of veneer that I cut shims from or if a thicker bit I'd required I slice from the side of a board.
It's good to see your progress, please keep the pictures coming.
Regards,
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Re: Table Saw

Postby Rod » 22 Feb 2016, 14:50

Thanks for showing us, warts and all but to be honest the joints are pretty terrible.
Before continuing making anymore panels I would strongly suggest you practice making accurate cuts with your saw and make a better "tenoning" type jig or a jig that locates and holds your timber in place better.
These joints should roughly follow the "third" rule and the shoulders should really be the same size so the "tenon" sits in the middle.
One thing that's occurred to me - are you allowing for the saws thickness when you cut?
Keep practicing.

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Re: Table Saw

Postby Commander » 22 Feb 2016, 17:10

Thanks for the comments guys!

@Dave, in hindsight I should not have used end grain, I had a long block that I just cut slithers off of, but I should have cut a smaller block, turned 90 degrees and then cut the slithers.

@Rod, to be honest I was pretty disappointed with the end result and almost decided against posting at all, however I thought that it could perhaps encourage other beginers to see some less than perfect work. I think my biggest problem was the lack of a fence. The clamped block would tend to move as the clamps loosened due to vibration from rhe saw. Once that is sorted it should go much better. I did manage to get two of the joints tight enough to neccesetate knocking them in with a hammer, they were unfortunatly not perfectly even, which resulted in some gaps. With regards to spacing I tried making the centre tennon slightly thicker (16mm out of 38mm) so as to give it a bit more strength.
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Re: Table Saw

Postby Rod » 22 Feb 2016, 18:42

Well I hope I didn't come across too hard you were very brave to show the results?
Stability and accuracy are the main points.
I learnt to do them by hand which improves hand held saw skills.
You saw each cut vertically from each side but only part way on the opposite side IE at a sloping angle, so following the easily seen marked cut lines, top and facing side.
Turn round and repeat then cut down to the shoulder once both sides have been cut to full length.
Cut off shoulders square or chisel out depending on the piece.
Much easier to do than trying to instruct in words.

Nowadays I use a bandsaw which is much easier to control as you have better support for the timber.

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Re: Table Saw

Postby Commander » 22 Feb 2016, 19:45

Rod wrote:Well I hope I didn't come across too hard you were very brave to show the results?
Stability and accuracy are the main points.
I learnt to do them by hand which improves hand held saw skills.
You saw each cut vertically from each side but only part way on the opposite side IE at a sloping angle, so following the easily seen marked cut lines, top and facing side.
Turn round and repeat then cut down to the shoulder once both sides have been cut to full length.
Cut off shoulders square or chisel out depending on the piece.
Much easier to do than trying to instruct in words.

Nowadays I use a bandsaw which is much easier to control as you have better support for the timber.

Rod


Not at all! They are bad, and to pretend otherwise would not fool anyone! Thanks for the tip, I will give hand sawing a whirl next time!
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Re: Table Saw

Postby will1983 » 23 Feb 2016, 12:19

Fair play to you mate, we have all done work we're not that proud of in the past. God knows I've made some bloody awful messes in the past! The joints might be a bit rough but at the end of the day, this is just a stand for your table saw, not fine furniture. Also you'll be surprised how much better they'll look when you've cleaned them up.

A little tip for you in making bridal joints is, to aviod having to chisel out so much waste you can just drill through the female section with the tangent of the hole level with the bottom of the socket. All thats left then is to trim the remaining rounded corners square.

Also if you are not fully confident in the accuracy you can acheive with the table saw yet just use it to remove the bulk of the waste material then use a nice sharp chisel to pare away to your marks, this is quieter (easier to concentrate) slower (more time to think) and has less potential for missing digits if it goes wrong!

Another thing to consider is how are you marking out where to cut, pencil or marking knife? A sharp marking knife really makes the world of difference.

Keep it up mate, I like reading your posts.
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Re: Table Saw

Postby Commander » 23 Feb 2016, 18:28

Hi Will, thanks for your input, I started cleaning up the joints and they do look a lot better, the frame is also very sturdy. I agree that I would rather make a mess here and learn some lessons than learning the lessons when there is more on the line.

I did actually drill out the first joint to reduce the amount of waste, but after I started getting the hang of using a nice sharp chisel I found that to work well. The marking knife rather than pencil trick will definitely make my work much more accurate.

Thinking back I'm very glad I did post this as I have received a lot of really useful tips already and I'm convinced the next set will look much better! Thanks again for all the honest comments and useful tips. Had the feedback been negative without suggestions (like it tends to be on most forums) it would have been useless, however this is the opposite, which is exactly what makes this forum great!
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Re: Table Saw

Postby Andyp » 23 Feb 2016, 18:58

What do the others think about strengthening those joints with a couple of offset dowels?
cheers

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Re: Table Saw

Postby Commander » 24 Feb 2016, 05:40

Hi Andy, I was planing on attaching the rest of the frame with dowels. Here are the preliminary CAD drawings I have come up with.

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Note the mock-up of the saw and table in comparison to the trolley.

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And one from the bottom.

I'm not 100% happy with it yet, I will probably make some changes still. I will also be adding casters to the bottom, so the screws should add a small amount of extra strength.

Thanks again for all the positive feedback!
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Re: Table Saw

Postby Commander » 06 Mar 2016, 16:48

I had a couple of hours available yesterday and I spent it cleaning up the frame with my small Stanley jack plane. I used the small blade since I installed a new blade in it. I was very impressed with the new blade, it works really well. I realised what a joy it was working with a well setup hand tool. After doing the majority of the work with the plane I gave it a quick once over with the belt sander and then a light scraping with a cabinet scraper. I was impressed with how smooth to the touch it came out. I then filled most of the remaining gaps with a mix of saw dust and glue. After the disaster that was the joints I think it came out pretty good, considering it will be the bottom of a trolley standing in the garage! :lol:
Will post some pics later.
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Re: Table Saw

Postby Wizard9999 » 07 Mar 2016, 09:32

I commend you for sharing, it is often easier not to when something has not turned out how you want. :eusa-clap:

As another beginner I can assure you that there is some truly ugly woodwork going on in much of my shop fit out, but I was usually in such a flap doing it that pictures were not on my mind. I am also very grateful for the insulation in my walls as without it I fear next door's lad playing football in the garden would have learned a whole new vocabulary. I am actually thinking of reworking some of my earlier efforts as I think I can improve them and continue to learn.

One thing that has struck me of late is that because it is only workshop furniture I have often been buying the cheapest raw materials available, in particular I bought some really nasty ply at one point. My logic was that as I was learning I did not want to wreck expensive materials, which I still don't think is an unreasonable start point. But, On reflection this has only made my life harder, because as well as trying to learn much of the basics I have also had to fight against the imperfections in the materials. Maybe if the woodworking was second nature I could spend all my time on the additional challenges of the material, but that is not the case. Hard enough for me to make a square box for a cabinet anyway, but trying to make it out of four sides of ply that make a banana look true, well you can guess the outcome. :lol: So whilst I will not be burning a fortune on materials for upcoming workshop projects I have decided I need to help myself by investing a little more as ultimately I think I will learn more.

No idea if part of your issue is similar to the trap I feel I fell into, but I thought I would mention it.

Terry.
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Re: Table Saw

Postby Commander » 17 Mar 2016, 06:48

Hi Terry, thanks for the comment! I try and save money on materials where I can, but I think in this case I can't really blame the materials! I do agree that some of the really cheap stuff should stay out of the workshop as trying to work with it is very counter productive. I also wonder where the "saving" starts becoming too costly to be worth while. I recycle a lot of pallets and even took apart an old double bed base the other day, but I often find myself wondering if it is really worth the effort considering my very limited time. I could buy lumber that is the right size and already finished to a certain degree, which would save me a lot of time in the taking apart, preping and "making things fit" department... :eusa-think:

I have made slight progress and will upload photos as soon as I have a moment, work has been eating almost all of my time lately. :(
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Re: Table Saw

Postby RogerS » 17 Mar 2016, 07:47

The trouble with recycling pallets is that the wood used in their manufacture is from fast-grown timber as you have found to your cost. IIRC they remove the branches at a lower level as the tree grows which accelerates the growth upwards. The downside is that the growth rings are very far apart and the resulting wood is just about good enough for pallets. We have the same problem over here especially buying 'bananas' from the DIY sheds. I will recycle sometimes but only if I have removed a window, say, which was quite old. You can see the beautiful straight grain in the wood from windows forty + years old.

I was wondering....are there some reasonably cheap hardwoods there? If you can get wood that more closely grained then you will find the whole experience much more gratifying.

If you get a chance check out any of Steve Maskery's videos on YouTube or get some of his DVDs. They are very good. He makes a lot of use of spacers on his table saw which gets your cuts in the right place.
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Re: Table Saw

Postby Commander » 18 Mar 2016, 06:37

Thanks for the input Roger, I'm not too sure about what woods are available at proper wood merchants, but I try to use the cheaper (or free) stuff for general projects. But I understand that there are some definite disadvantages to using the cheap stuff. I will have a look at Steve Maskery's videos, not too sure if I may have seen some of his stuff as I like spending time on youtube!

As promised, here are some of the photos I have taken over the past couple of weeks.

Here I'm starting the clean-up of the joints trimming the excess (I left this on purpose so I could trim it down to flush).
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Some close-ups of one of those terrible joints before filling:
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Here I filled the gaps with a mix of saw dust and wood glue.
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This is what the faces look like after planing. The gaps are nice and small and the joint seems to be square, unfortunately as you can see even though the plane blade is decently sharp, there are some tool marks which I suspect is due to the factory finish blade. Once I have honed the blade the finish should be much better.
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After a light sanding:
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I played with the cabinet scraper and was quite impressed with the finish I was able to achieve.

I still have to clean up the glue squeeze out, hopefully I should be able to do that some where over the weekend.
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Re: Table Saw

Postby Commander » 13 May 2016, 06:06

I eventually found some time to start on the rest of the frame. I started by planing the rough boards and I have started cutting the various joints, but I haven't taken any photos just yet. Will upload once I have finished with cutting the joints.
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Re: Table Saw

Postby Tusses » 15 May 2016, 09:35

starting to look a lot better already :-)

it doesn't matter at the moment, but one thing to make a habit of early on, is to make all sanding and scraping marks in the direction of the grain.
It's amazing how every little mark shows up when you come to put a finish on your work !
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