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Elevating stand for my new thicknesser

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Re: Elevating stand for my new thicknesser

Postby TrimTheKing » 05 Feb 2016, 14:50

Andyp wrote:Me thinks you need an apprentice Bob :D


Me me me!! :eusa-pray:

;)

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Re: Elevating stand for my new thicknesser

Postby 9fingers » 05 Feb 2016, 15:00

Well I suppose there could be an opening for someone to do the sanding, varnishing and making the coffee but I happen to know the boss can be a miserable intolerant b'stard at times. :lol:

I suppose I ought to be training someone up on electric motors and modifying inverters to run them .....
Hopefully I have a good few years left in me though!

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Re: Elevating stand for my new thicknesser

Postby Andyp » 05 Feb 2016, 15:13

If only the commute was a little easier :D
I do not think therefore I do not am.

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Re: Elevating stand for my new thicknesser

Postby 9fingers » 15 Feb 2016, 18:22

Next Instalment.

I've now got the varnishing task out of the way and can start risking making some dust now. So last week it was off to get a sheet of MRMDF and cut the panels for the planer stand.
If you recall, the plan is to take all the weight through the metal components but the MDF casing is vital to stop the whole thing racking.

Firstly the base completer with reinforcing aluminium channel fitted.

Image

Within the two pieces of channel, on each "corner" are the thrust bearings for the jack screws.

Image

Flipping the base over you can see the casters.

Image

The outer ones are directly under the jack screws but as the specification of the casters is a little marginal at 50kg each, I've added another four to give me a decent load margin.

This is one of the side panels with dados cut 2mm deep for both the other frame section to sit in and wider slots for the guides.

Image

And with the guides in place.

Image

The next photo shows the platform on which the planer will sit.

Image

Another view with the guides fitted.

Image

A close up on one corner shows the bearing blocks to run in the guides and under the four socket cap screws, just visible, is the bronze nut that will run on the jack screws.

Image

Going back to the base, this photo shows the four jack screws in place

Image

and in close up

Image

Combining the jack screws and the planer platform, the lift is starting to take shape.

Image

and with a side panel in place too.

Image

This trial assembly has not thrown up up any issues - phew! and I now start to think about how to mount the motor and gearbox and a method for adjusting the chain tension. Then some more metal bashing for those parts. Once I am completely satisfied with the wood work, I will seal it with varnish rather than having the inevitable oil staining the mrmdf.

This is the motor and gearbox salvaged from a powered golf caddy that I hope will be man enough for the job.

Image

I hope to be back in a few days with some more progress.

Bob
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Re: Elevating stand for my new thicknesser

Postby Rod » 15 Feb 2016, 22:41

Looking good - how long will it take to raise (and lower) the platform?

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Re: Elevating stand for my new thicknesser

Postby 9fingers » 15 Feb 2016, 22:59

Rod wrote:Looking good - how long will it take to raise (and lower) the platform?

Rod


Rod, I've been fairly conservative on the design in the hope that the motor will cope. Currently it will take just over a minute. I have got the option to increase the supply voltage a bit and if there seems to be torque to spare, I can change the motor sprocket for a bigger one which will speed it up a bit.

Normally if I'm preparing timber, I'll be thicknessing for a few hours so a minute or two at each end of the job will be pretty insignificant.

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Re: Elevating stand for my new thicknesser

Postby Wizard9999 » 15 Feb 2016, 23:03

Very impressive Bob :eusa-clap: .
Surprised you are using casters without brakes, am I missing something?

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Re: Elevating stand for my new thicknesser

Postby 9fingers » 15 Feb 2016, 23:13

A few sums.

Assume planer & platform is 250kg. raised through 0.6m in 60 seconds

Work done = 250 x 10 x0.6 joules
Time taken = 60 seconds

Rate of work= Power = 250 x10 x0.6/60 =25 watts

Motor input power 180 watts.

This would allow it to just work if the efficiency of the system is 25/180 or about 14% and I can't believe it will be that poor.

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Re: Elevating stand for my new thicknesser

Postby 9fingers » 15 Feb 2016, 23:17

Wizard9999 wrote:Very impressive Bob :eusa-clap: .
Surprised you are using casters without brakes, am I missing something?

Terry.



Where is it going to go? the floor is flat and it weighs getting on for 1/4 tonne.
Even more to the point, I could not get to the brakes to work them. In fact half the casters had brakes and their first appointment was with the bandsaw!!

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Re: Elevating stand for my new thicknesser

Postby Commander » 16 Feb 2016, 11:06

Some steady progress Bob! Looks very good!
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Re: Elevating stand for my new thicknesser

Postby 9fingers » 20 Feb 2016, 18:24

Stop Press!

I've just had the motor running lift up and down (with out a load) and it basically works. :obscene-drinkingbuddies:
A few niggles to sort out but no showstoppers (yet!)
Rod - the speed is almost exactly 400mm per minute.

Photos tomorrow hopefully.

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Re: Elevating stand for my new thicknesser

Postby Andyp » 21 Feb 2016, 20:52

9fingers wrote:
Wizard9999 wrote:Very impressive Bob :eusa-clap: .
Surprised you are using casters without brakes, am I missing something?

Terry.


Where is it going to go? the floor is flat and it weighs getting on for 1/4 tonne.
Even more to the point, I could not get to the brakes to work them. In fact half the casters had brakes and their first appointment was with the bandsaw!!

Bob


Then why put it on castors?
I do not think therefore I do not am.

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Re: Elevating stand for my new thicknesser

Postby 9fingers » 21 Feb 2016, 21:39

Andyp wrote:
9fingers wrote:
Wizard9999 wrote:Very impressive Bob :eusa-clap: .
Surprised you are using casters without brakes, am I missing something?

Terry.


Where is it going to go? the floor is flat and it weighs getting on for 1/4 tonne.
Even more to the point, I could not get to the brakes to work them. In fact half the casters had brakes and their first appointment was with the bandsaw!!

Bob


Then why put it on castors?


Andy, I think you will find the answer in the first post of this thread. I'm confident that it will move when I want it to!

Bob
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Re: Elevating stand for my new thicknesser

Postby 9fingers » 21 Feb 2016, 22:01

I promised some more photos so here goes.

After some surgery to the long motor shafts, I made a plate to mount the motor and added a second bearing to take the load of the chain.

Image

The resulting assembly is a bit of an odd shape. here is the matching aperture cut in the base which is big enough to allow enough movement to adjust the chain.

Image

I can only add/subtract links in pairs to the chain so the adjustment range has to be at least 1 link.

The slots are 13mm longer than they are wide.

Image

Here is a view with the extra bearing removed.

Image

and a close up of the bearing in the top plate.

Image

With to motor fitted and the chain added I was able to make it mover under power

Image

In the background is the mains power supply to drive the 12v dc motor and a clamp ammeter to monitor the current drawn. Only about 4 amps with no load and the supply is good for 20 amps

A close up of the motor and the chain running around the idlers.

Image

The next steps will be to iron out a few little niggles, shorten bolts etc and then start to assemble the main housing. Only then can I start to evaluate the lift under load!

No further progress today as I had a paying job today - modifying a 4kW inverter to run a big table saw.

Bob
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Re: Elevating stand for my new thicknesser

Postby Wizard9999 » 21 Feb 2016, 22:57

Looking awesome Bob. Fascinating for me as it is so far beyond anything I could ever envisage doing.

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Re: Elevating stand for my new thicknesser

Postby 9fingers » 21 Feb 2016, 23:03

Wizard9999 wrote:Looking awesome Bob. Fascinating for me as it is so far beyond anything I could ever envisage doing.

Terry.



Yebbut a year or so ago you would have said that about building a workshop Terry :lol:

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Re: Elevating stand for my new thicknesser

Postby Andyp » 22 Feb 2016, 10:38

Yep. Great stuff.

As for the castors I think I understand. The force required to move it from under the bench will be far far greater than the force exerted by pushing a board through the planer.
I do not think therefore I do not am.

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Re: Elevating stand for my new thicknesser

Postby 9fingers » 22 Feb 2016, 10:47

Andyp wrote:Yep. Great stuff.

As for the castors I think I understand. The force required to move it from under the bench will be far far greater than the force exerted by pushing a board through the planer.



There is virtually no force involved in feeding a thicknesser apart from enough to lift the anti kickback pawls. From then on, the machine pulls the timber in and pushes it out the other side.
This machine is a single function thicknesser not a P/T.

Bob
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Re: Elevating stand for my new thicknesser

Postby 9fingers » 25 Feb 2016, 13:44

IT WORKS!!!! :obscene-drinkingbuddies: It actually f***ing works! :obscene-drinkingbuddies:

When I have stopped being so pleased with myself (and find my tripod!) I'll try and shoot a video.

The controls are still all manual and some more titivating needed but the motor is more than strong enough.
After oiling the screw threads, current is below 10 amps at 12volts - about 60% of the rated motor current.

Now to think about a MosFet H bridge* to switch the motor and PWM system to slow it down as it approaches the correct operating level and fit some limit switches just in case!

Woodwork, metalwork and electronics all in one project - I'm having great fun and enjoying the mix of skills.

Bob

*I've already burned out a relay contact and using electronic switching will allow speed control too.
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Re: Elevating stand for my new thicknesser

Postby Rod » 25 Feb 2016, 13:54

Great news Bob - would be nice to see a video.

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Re: Elevating stand for my new thicknesser

Postby Newbie_Neil » 25 Feb 2016, 15:20

Hi Bob,

Rod wrote:Great news Bob - would be nice to see a video. Rod


:text-+1:
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Re: Elevating stand for my new thicknesser

Postby Andyp » 25 Feb 2016, 17:17

9fingers wrote:IT WORKS!!!! :obscene-drinkingbuddies: It actually f***ing works! :obscene-drinkingbuddies:


Why so surprised? Nobody here ever doubted it would.

9fingers wrote:Now to think about a MosFet H bridge* to switch the motor and PWM system ......


No idea what on earth that means but I am sure it wont take you long to sort.
I do not think therefore I do not am.

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Re: Elevating stand for my new thicknesser

Postby 9fingers » 25 Feb 2016, 17:35

Thanks for your confidence Andy but there was always the possibility that the motor might not be man enough for the job as I had no specification on it only a few crude measurements.
It was off a recycled golf caddy.

OK here comes some pics and videos.

This is the planer at its storage position. the lath across the top simply showing the top of the planer motor is below the height of the sides.

Image

The pale surface at the top right of the picture is the level of my table saw and outfeed table. The planer needs to rise to level with this about 570mm.

This video is of the planer rising out of the cabinet. Not exactly exciting at 6mm per second or thereabouts
I've not found the tripod so please excuse the shakes (excitement?)

Image

Here we are at the operating level - note the lath level between the two tables

Image

And a better shot of the machine itself.

Image

Current drawn fluctuates by an amp or so but this is what it was at the instant of the photo.

Image

Another video clip of the downward run - possibly easier to judge the motion in this one.

Image


Now to think about the limit switches whilst the components for the H bridge are on order.

Google H bridge might help Andy

Cheers

Bob
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Re: Elevating stand for my new thicknesser

Postby chataigner » 25 Feb 2016, 21:14

Splendid Bob, never doubted for a moment ! :text-bravo:

Voice activated would be good : "PLANER UP !"
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Re: Elevating stand for my new thicknesser

Postby 9fingers » 25 Feb 2016, 22:45

Thanks David!

Now chaps, please switch off your "can't learn won't learn" mode for a bit. This is not difficult

Here is the basic H bridge with a bit of a twist.

Image

In the middle is the motor. It is simple 12v DC motor that reverses when you change the polarity of the power supply. A,B,C & D can be thought of as near perfect switches. Close switches A and B, and the motor drives the platform up, if instead you turn on C and D, the motor drives the platform down.

The name H bridge comes from the topology of the central part of the circuit.

Clearly B and C must never be on at the same time as the supply will be shorted out and the magic smoke will escape. The same applies for A and D.

In my application I want the platform to stop when it is exactly level with my outfeed table. To do this, I want slow the motor right down just before it gets to the correct level and then there will be minimal inertia/overrun when I switch off.

The pulse generator sends out big fat pulses most of the time when the up control is enabled which turns B on virtually 100% of the time so the motor runs at full speed. When the platform gets near to the top, the pulses are changed to narrow ones and the motor creeps up to the final position until the stop sensor turns it off and it should stop dead in its tracks.

I don't need any degree of accuracy on the way down so that is kept as a simple on/off full speed mode.

That is the theory and I hope to get the parts early next week and start playing.

Bob
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