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Extraction location

Here's the place to talk about all your table saws, bandsaws, routers and dust extractors. In fact anything that makes noise and uses electrickery.

Re: Extraction location

Postby 9fingers » 15 Sep 2014, 15:01

I've been reading around a bit on sawdust level sensing and got several mentions of capacitative proximity sensors being suitable for the job. I just ordered a £6 sensor from HK so will have a play when it turns up in a few weeks. Easiest option seems to have it turn off the extractor when the level gets high. It's a lot easier to clear a blocked machine than clean up the result of the cyclone passing chips into my roof mounted filters.
Been there, done it, tee-shirt etc a few times now.
Will report back later
Bob
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Re: Extraction location

Postby RogerS » 15 Sep 2014, 15:17

Would weighing it be an option?

Or a small porthole in the side of the box?
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Re: Extraction location

Postby 9fingers » 15 Sep 2014, 15:26

RogerS wrote:Would weighing it be an option?

Or a small porthole in the side of the box?


I've already got a visual indicator - trouble is I forget to look until it is too late sometimes when I'm into a batch of timber prep!! I've only got room for a 60l bin so it can fill quickly when the thicknesser is in use.

I read someone suggesting adapting cheap bathroom scales as and idea but there was no follow through.
My scales have auto switch off and auto zero so hard work to adapt.

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Re: Extraction location

Postby Andyp » 15 Sep 2014, 15:33

TrimTheKing wrote:That's why I used the Cyclone Central pressure valve as I exploded my first cyclone that same way ! :shock:

Cheers
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They have stopped selling those valves now. So I will have to make my own. They provide details on how to put one together and links to some suitable magnets.

http://www.cyclonecentral.co.uk/HowToMa ... sureValve/
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Re: Extraction location

Postby RogerS » 15 Sep 2014, 15:34

Pressure sensitive switch. One on eBay...variable resistance dependent on weight. £15. Any good?

Or a light beam with a suitable circuit to filter out transient chips floating past
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Re: Extraction location

Postby TrimTheKing » 15 Sep 2014, 15:34

Andyp wrote:
TrimTheKing wrote:That's why I used the Cyclone Central pressure valve as I exploded my first cyclone that same way ! :shock:

Cheers
Mark


They have stopped selling those valves now. So I will have to make my own. They provide details on how to put one together and links to some suitable magnets.

http://www.cyclonecentral.co.uk/HowToMa ... sureValve/


It's very simple Andy. Let me know if you want any close up pics or measurements.

Cheers
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Re: Extraction location

Postby Andyp » 15 Sep 2014, 16:12

Mark, thanks. Instructions on Cyclone Central seem pretty straight forward. Tube, magnet with hole, bolt bar and a jam lid with string attached. What can go wrong.
I shall get a couple of magnets. James reckons a 3kg pull for a Camvac but I guess that would depend on the weight of metal attached to the magnet and whether or not 1 or 2 motors are in use. I'll get a 1kg and a 3kg and see how they go.
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Re: Extraction location

Postby Mike G » 15 Sep 2014, 16:27

I'm thinking of a float on an arm from a toilet cistern, and a switch turning off the extractor and turning on a warning light. This won't suit all circumstances, I guess, but suits me as I am planning on a big home-made drop-box.
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Re: Extraction location

Postby 9fingers » 15 Sep 2014, 16:42

Mike G wrote:I'm thinking of a float on an arm from a toilet cistern, and a switch turning off the extractor and turning on a warning light. This won't suit all circumstances, I guess, but suits me as I am planning on a big home-made drop-box.

Mike,
I'm not sure that the sawdust will give a ball float significant lift and might just get buried.
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Re: Extraction location

Postby RogerS » 15 Sep 2014, 17:05

Mike G wrote:.... I am planning on a big home-made drop-box.


When you do, Mike, and at the risk of grandma sucking eggs, plan for how easy it's going to be to empty it into whatever sack/bag etc you intend to use to take it away. I didn't :cry:
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Re: Extraction location

Postby Mike G » 15 Sep 2014, 18:15

9fingers wrote:
Mike G wrote:I'm thinking of a float on an arm from a toilet cistern, and a switch turning off the extractor and turning on a warning light. This won't suit all circumstances, I guess, but suits me as I am planning on a big home-made drop-box.

Mike,
I'm not sure that the sawdust will give a ball float significant lift and might just get buried.
Bob


I'll obviously experiment first, but my experience with drop boxes is that the dust and chippings get packed in extremely tightly, in layers. Unless the layers were to build up on top of the float at the same rate they build below it, which is of course perfectly possible, then I can't imagine that there would be much of an issue getting flotation with a cistern float. A few minutes experimentation will soon tell us.
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Re: Extraction location

Postby RogerS » 15 Sep 2014, 18:27

I don't think it will work, Mike. The float is in mid-air, then gradually the dust and chips rise up. But when they get to the float, they are surely just going to land on top of the float, fall down the sides but not underneath which is where you need it. Water flows underneath naturally but dust and chips won't. You will have a dust shadow underneath the float.
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Re: Extraction location

Postby Andyp » 15 Sep 2014, 18:42

Assuming Roger is correct could you use the cistern float to block a hole in the lid of you drop box? The float would be pulled down if a blockage occurred. As the float is pulled down a trigger switch on the weighted end would search off the extractor? You would have to get the weight right but by moving the fulcrum this should be quite easy.

I hope this make sense as my attempt to draw a picture were not much help.
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Re: Extraction location

Postby Mike G » 15 Sep 2014, 20:10

RogerS wrote:I don't think it will work, Mike. The float is in mid-air, then gradually the dust and chips rise up. But when they get to the float, they are surely just going to land on top of the float, fall down the sides but not underneath which is where you need it. Water flows underneath naturally but dust and chips won't. You will have a dust shadow underneath the float.


I like the thinking, Roger, and you may well be right. However, only an experiment will sort this out. If i have a few minutes in the next few days I'll rig something up.
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Re: Extraction location

Postby RogerS » 15 Sep 2014, 21:35

I still like the idea of a light beam....interrupted when the box gets full
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Re: Extraction location

Postby 9fingers » 15 Sep 2014, 21:41

RogerS wrote:I still like the idea of a light beam....interrupted when the box gets full


Capacitative sensor should be even better. No risk of lenses getting covered in dust.

Bob
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Re: Extraction location

Postby RogerS » 15 Sep 2014, 21:59

9fingers wrote:
RogerS wrote:I still like the idea of a light beam....interrupted when the box gets full


Capacitative sensor should be even better. No risk of lenses getting covered in dust.

Bob


'twould appear you're not alone with that idea as a quick google threw up this option. I did like the one suggestion which was to have a vane that was spun by the airflow and generated a voltage. As the chips reached it, it stopped turning etc etc.
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Re: Extraction location

Postby RogerS » 15 Sep 2014, 22:03

I'd completely forgotten about my second foray into cyclones

Image

Image

It was the not knowing when it was full that made me abandon it, as I recall.
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Re: Extraction location

Postby TheTiddles » 15 Sep 2014, 23:58

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Re: Extraction location

Postby DaveL » 16 Sep 2014, 09:03

This my home made cyclone.
Image
I have 2 dust bins, mounted on casters so I can swap to an empty one quickly.
The blower is mounter on the top, just out of shot, linked to the filters with a bit of 6" flexible hose.
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Re: Extraction location

Postby chataigner » 16 Sep 2014, 11:24

Interesting that the metal dustbin resists the vacuum pressure - my early experiments resulted in a squashed flat bin, but it was not ribbed like yours.
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Re: Extraction location

Postby Robert » 16 Sep 2014, 14:56

we got one of these IR beam alarms from maplin. bought it to know if the cat jumped up on the kitchen worktop so it could be discouraged from the idea. The cat stopped jumping up when the alarm was there but footprints just showed it had learned when to stay off.

Image

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/security-beam ... larm-vh87u

Guess it could monitor wood chippings as well as cats :)
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Re: Extraction location

Postby Mike G » 16 Sep 2014, 16:34

Robert wrote:we got one of these IR beam alarms from maplin. bought it to know if the cat jumped up on the kitchen worktop so it could be discouraged from the idea. The cat stopped jumping up when the alarm was there but footprints just showed it had learned when to stay off.

Image

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/security-beam ... larm-vh87u

Guess it could monitor wood chippings as well as cats :)


I suggest that you didn't use quite enough voltage in the electrified worktop defences, or quite enough disguise, Robert. If I had gone to the trouble of setting that up, no cat would ever have leapt up there a second time. I guess the trick is have the right voltage to send the cat flying across the room without actually setting it on fire. ;)
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Re: Extraction location

Postby chataigner » 16 Sep 2014, 18:47

I had a similar problem with a dog that liked to empty the rubbish bin when no-one was looking. Mousetraps worked wonders, but I did catch SWMBO once or twice... :lol: :lol:
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Re: Extraction location

Postby tracerman » 17 Sep 2014, 19:03

RogerS - I can see that this thread has moved on somewhat , but I wanted to mention that I spoke to Nikki at RB , in Andover , yesterday , incredibly helpful , I can pick up a Torit-equivalent filter from them myself for about £61 so its in the plan . If I can make room I might move the extractor back into my workshop/garage , scrap the shed , and save heat in the winter too .

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