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3 PH Motor start up screech.

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3 PH Motor start up screech.

Postby Jimmy Mack » 23 May 2018, 08:53

This might be one of interest to our resident expert Bob...

I've got a brand new TS, it has a braked 4 kW motor. When I start it up there's an ear piercing friction like screech before it's running, this jolts the saw/trunion a little more than I'd expect. It then runs and stops as to be expected. The supplier's tech support had me remove the motor bell cover (?), slip off the fan and squirt some lubricant (GT 45 with PTFE in my case) in the back end of the spindle. They said the brake might be a bit 'dry' ? I've released and retentioned the belt too, incase this was the issue.

Just wondering if this is something that will free up with use? Or if I'm potentially causing damage to the motor by pushing on through? Maybe there's something simple I can do? The lubricant hasn't done anything (so far)

My questions are out of interest... I'm going to call tech support and see if they'll send out an engineer, it's a warranty issue really.

Jim



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Re: 3 PH Motor start up screech.

Postby RogerS » 23 May 2018, 09:13

I had a similar sound on my Sedgwick and it turned out to be the fan blades (plastic) slipping on the motor shaft.
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Re: 3 PH Motor start up screech.

Postby Andyp » 23 May 2018, 09:35

RogerS wrote:I had a similar sound on my Sedgwick and it turned out to be the fan blades (plastic) slipping on the motor shaft.


yep, that happened on my KITY too.
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Re: 3 PH Motor start up screech.

Postby Robert » 23 May 2018, 09:36

Sounds like V belt(s) slipping to me.... assuming it has them of course :)

edit. just read your post properly. Still sounds like belts. Was there any change in the sound after changing tension?
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Re: 3 PH Motor start up screech.

Postby Jimmy Mack » 23 May 2018, 09:59

Screeches with the fan off too.
RogerS wrote:I had a similar sound on my Sedgwick and it turned out to be the fan blades (plastic) slipping on the motor shaft.


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Re: 3 PH Motor start up screech.

Postby Jimmy Mack » 23 May 2018, 10:02

Same sound unfortunately, I tensioned tighter and also with just the weight of the motor (as per manual)

My initial thoughts were the belts, maybe it still is, it's so hard to tell.

Is there anything else I can do to the belts?

They're the wide flat type.
Robert wrote:Sounds like V belt(s) slipping to me.... assuming it has them of course :)

edit. just read your post properly. Still sounds like belts. Was there any change in the sound after changing tension?


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Re: 3 PH Motor start up screech.

Postby 9fingers » 23 May 2018, 10:12

To try and locate the source, take the belt(s) off and see if it still does it.
Curious to see flat belts on a modern saw. In the old days, flat belt drives sometimes needed applications of so called "belt jam" jollop but not even seen that for sale in decades.

If so does the brake run hot with protracted running? if so suggests it is not releasing properly and needs adjustment. Whilst you are in there see if the fan could be slipping but I doubt it on the new motor.

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Re: 3 PH Motor start up screech.

Postby Jimmy Mack » 23 May 2018, 10:27

The belt has little grooves, I suppose mini vee's.

Dang, what a plonker!... I never thought to try the motor with the belt off, and...

It's the belts!....


Where do I go from here... try different tensions?
9fingers wrote:To try and locate the source, take the belt(s) off and see if it still does it.
Curious to see flat belts on a modern saw. In the old days, flat belt drives sometimes needed applications of so called "belt jam" jollop but not even seen that for sale in decades.

If so does the brake run hot with protracted running? if so suggests it is not releasing properly and needs adjustment. Whilst you are in there see if the fan could be slipping but I doubt it on the new motor.

Bob


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Re: 3 PH Motor start up screech.

Postby 9fingers » 23 May 2018, 11:03

Ok polyvee belts that makes more sense on a modern machine
2 out of 10 for observation lol
It is critical the the pulley grooves are in line and the belt tension high on this sort of drive.
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Re: 3 PH Motor start up screech.

Postby Jimmy Mack » 23 May 2018, 20:25

9fingers wrote:...2 out of 10 for observation lol...




I've put some more tension on... Still screeches at me

Is there something I can apply to the belt to make it more grippy? Or perhaps it's the quality of the belt rubber.

I'm not sure if this is my responsibility or the supplier of the new saw

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Re: 3 PH Motor start up screech.

Postby 9fingers » 23 May 2018, 20:47

Jimmy Mack wrote:
9fingers wrote:...2 out of 10 for observation lol...




I've put some more tension on... Still screeches at me

Is there something I can apply to the belt to make it more grippy? Or perhaps it's the quality of the belt rubber.

I'm not sure if this is my responsibility or the supplier of the new saw

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Have you checked the precise alignment of the v's? Fractions of mm could be significant.

Are you sure that the belt is not in the wrong set of vee's of each pulley

A belt drive should be virtually silent. Every time is screeches it is slipping and quite possibly wearing away the belt. Yes it is up to the supplier/maker to fix so if basic adjustment does not fix it, insist they investigate and cure it permanently.

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Re: 3 PH Motor start up screech.

Postby RogerS » 23 May 2018, 21:11

Jimmy Mack wrote:
9fingers wrote:...2 out of 10 for observation lol...




I've put some more tension on... Still screeches at me

Is there something I can apply to the belt to make it more grippy? Or perhaps it's the quality of the belt rubber.

I'm not sure if this is my responsibility or the supplier of the new saw

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Re: 3 PH Motor start up screech.

Postby Coley » 23 May 2018, 21:20

https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p25485 ... gLlK_D_BwE
This will sort out your slipping issue

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Re: 3 PH Motor start up screech.

Postby 9fingers » 23 May 2018, 21:29

Coley wrote:https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p25485?r=googleshopping&rr=marin&utm_source=googleshopping&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=googleshoppingfeed&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIzuzp7tOc2wIVLLftCh2bVgI-EAQYASABEgLlK_D_BwE
This will sort out your slipping issue

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Or disguise the underlying problem?

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Re: 3 PH Motor start up screech.

Postby Coley » 23 May 2018, 21:30

Yeah might do Bob. I was only answering his question

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Re: 3 PH Motor start up screech.

Postby 9fingers » 23 May 2018, 21:37

Coley wrote:Yeah might do Bob. I was only answering his question

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Fairy Nuff :lol:

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Re: 3 PH Motor start up screech.

Postby Jimmy Mack » 23 May 2018, 21:41

Ah...I've only just been reading an article on vee belt spray , suggests it's a temp solution and the problem is likely to return (worse) due to belt abrasions from the tackiness left from the spray (when dried out).

On the blower to technical in the morning.... Rob's old chums in Devon, I'm sure they'll look after me.



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Re: 3 PH Motor start up screech.

Postby Jimmy Mack » 25 May 2018, 09:58

After numerous calls and THREE days waiting for technical feedback the rather blunt response was.

"It's the hi torque of the motor causing belt slip and it is perfectly normal and a characteristic of the machine, every machine (of this model) does this, and I (the technical advisor) have been installing these machines for 12 years. If you are unhappy with this you can write into customer services for a response."


He went on to say this would not affect the belt and it would lessen over time going on to suggested I apply belt spray.


I discussed that this IMO is NOT normal for a modern machine and perhaps due to misalignment/set-up. Also raising my concerns on the use of a spray. I mentioned I've had a Wadkin, Hammer and SCM all high powered professional machines and none have done this!

I mentioned that when I drove the 220 mile round trip to view the machine in Nuneaton I was unable to see it running and there was no evidence in the notes, comment by the demonstrator or reviews on the website of this (common) 'characteristic'.

I likened it to the purchase of a new car,...

"If your new car had a rattle under the bonnet, would you accept it as a characteristic of the machine?"...I was told this was an unfair comparison

They've offered a possible return (PITA, and I'm not quite ready to throw my toys out of the pram, as it's very good in other aspects) or as mentioned that I write in... To probably get the same response (cynical? - probably)


A very disappointing experience for Devon. Head scratch time.



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Re: 3 PH Motor start up screech.

Postby 9fingers » 25 May 2018, 10:32

Most of what he says is true and possibly hide the sense of frustration that they have in having to defend one of their products and is basically saying they all do that.

It must have an impact on the belt life but maybe only a small one.

It might be possible to fit a soft starter or an inverter but I suspect these could fight what I suspect in an injection brake that you have fitted. Changing that could impact on warranty.

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Re: 3 PH Motor start up screech.

Postby Robert » 25 May 2018, 12:56

We had a 10HP compressor with a direct on line starter that belt screamed every time it started (many times a day). Didn't affect it at all during the 10 years or so we had it. Only changed it due to the cost of inspections it would have needed to continue using it.

It had 3 Vee belts but they never wore or needed adjustment so I'd tend to agree the noise does little or no harm.

The punch presses had belt scream too at startup even with star-delta starters but they tended to run all day.

Belt noise had always been a normal sort of thing during my factory life.
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Re: 3 PH Motor start up screech.

Postby Jimmy Mack » 20 Jun 2018, 21:09

A little update... The squeaking has relaxed a 'little', as have I ... Maybe it's the weather or its bedding in

Thanks again.

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