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Castings - how good is good enough?

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Castings - how good is good enough?

Postby StevieB » 27 Mar 2015, 21:00

Paid a visit to Axminster today and came away with one of their trade series drill presses - actually went to view the larger of the two bench mounted models but on seeing it decided it was too big for my needs and bought the smaller one! Seems very robust and a major step up compared to the old yellow perform press it replaced, which has finally failed. Just spent an hour putting it together and it seems robust, but oh boy are the castings bad - rough, pitted, had to file a flat spot to get a bolt head to seat properly and the table is rough rough rough. I didn't really look at the ones in the store for that level of cosmetic detail so cannot compare, but for nigh on £250 and a trade badge I would have expected better. It is not bad enough to return, but certainly needs a false table to prevent scrapes and knocks - certainly wouldn't want to put finished timber on the table in its current state. Anyone else noticed poor castings on the trade range? My old perform was better finished. Now it seems to be cast, paint and ship!

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Re: Castings - how good is good enough?

Postby Mick » 01 Apr 2015, 19:50

I would think the best person to ask is Axminster customer service. You may just have a rough one.

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Re: Castings - how good is good enough?

Postby stephen.wood125 » 03 Apr 2015, 10:00

I thought the floor model in the Warrington store had grim castings (both table and the rubber coated 'crank' lever to move the drill)

That said (as I seem to often say relatively negative things about Axi Trade range) I thought the column and action seemed very good, nice and smooth with very little play.

I suppose for woodwork I'd have some kind of sacrificial table anyhow, and for metalwork either a vice/v-blocks etc so it's not as vital to have a mirror smooth casting (like on Meddings and other drills of yesteryear etc)

Definitely worth chatting to customer service about it, I've always found them very helpful.
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Re: Castings - how good is good enough?

Postby TrimTheKing » 07 Apr 2015, 11:42

Quality is going down all over the place, not just with Axi stuff, seems like everything is being made to a price now, and quality is plummeting… :(

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Re: Castings - how good is good enough?

Postby stephen.wood125 » 07 Apr 2015, 12:33

Great point Mark. Probably unfair of me to not mention that! In fact I remember taking a piece out of my knuckle on the bottom wheel of my Record BS350S casting where is was poorly finished off!

In fact I'm thinking of looking at older Meddings etc and trying to get an old drill, even 3 phase etc.

I think Kirk made a great comment when talking about the 2 for £10 clamps at Screwfix; 'Value engineered' So very true.

The problem is I'd love to get an old but solid one and restore it. At the moment I'm in Milan training so have precious little time- I know I would have enough to take it all to pieces but there it would likely stay until I lost something :cry: :?
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Re: Castings - how good is good enough?

Postby StevieB » 07 Apr 2015, 13:54

Apologies for coming back to this late since I started the thread - been a mite busy over the Easter weekend and I officially hate plumbing! I can do it, but it is my least favourite trade - much prefer electrics!

Anyway, back to the drill. Now I have had it for a couple of weeks I have to say I am impressed with it - big, powerful and a nice keyless chuck, even if you do need three hands to hold the drill bit and counter turn the two chuck halves to tighten it! This is a limitation of all keyless chucks in a vertical position however, so not a complaint against this particular model. My only gripes are the poor finish on the castings as mentioned, and the useless and impractical guard system. I can only presume this is to meet some form of H&S legislation somewhere with this being a trade drill. The guard consists of a huge piece of plastic attached to a length of flimsy aluminium rod that bolts into a microswitch type collar, only operating the drill when the guard is in front of the drill. Of course if you want to drill anything longer than 4" the guard is completely in the way, but it presumably meets whatever requirements it was meant to meet, but doesn't pass my common sense requirement so I did what I expect most people do - removed the guard and aluminium arm and set the collar to permanently 'on' for the microswitch and I now have a drill I can use!

With the above caveats I would be happy to recommend the drill - get one with a good casting and for the price it is very good indeed. In a trade environment where a guard was a requirement I would strongly suggest having a look at one first since it is a totally impractical arrangement as is, and other alternatives or a home made guard (if you feel the need for drilling timber) might be preferable. I don't get the sense it has been engineered down to a price point, but I am coming up from a very low base of a yellow perform drill that was half the power, 10 years old and half the size!

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Re: Castings - how good is good enough?

Postby Rob » 07 Apr 2015, 15:10

Thanks for taking the time to review Steve as I'm probably going to be entering the upgrade drill market before too long and the general mantra out there in forum land is that if you don't get either a Meddings or Fobco you're an idiot!
Of course we all appreciate the quality of these beauty's, just as we do Wallace's Waddy restorations but they're not easily available and come with a set of risks that many don't want to take on board (setup and/or not working risks I mean).

I've never really found anyone be prepared to stick their neck out and heartily recommend a more modern brand of drill press. There seems quite a gap in the market to me.
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Re: Castings - how good is good enough?

Postby StevieB » 07 Apr 2015, 15:28

No problem Rob - I found the same. A Drill press is effectively a very simple piece of kit and I think this explains the dearth of reviews on them - it is hard to differentiate them and there is very little innovation to make them better than they are. Many are Chiwanese clones in different colours. I knew I wanted to see one in the flesh and that meant Axi or Record for me, was happy with the Axi which I saw first so never got round to seeing a Record. For reference, I rated the Trade drills well above the hobby ones at Axminster (as did the sales chappie I spoke to) and the price between them was not huge. Although I went for the baby of the trade range (after initially favouring the next one up before seeing it in the flesh and deciding it was too large), this baby one was more than enough for my (hobby) needs and just felt far more robust and solid. It does weigh near on 60kg however, so you might need a second pair of hands to put it together, especially if it is going on a high bench. I did mine alone through necessity, but it was a close run thing!

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Re: Castings - how good is good enough?

Postby Rob » 07 Apr 2015, 18:37

Interesting and not dis-similar to my experience some 7 years ago when I got mine. Mine is actually a Record mortiser that I converted by just removing the shroud. It became redundant when I upgraded to a better dedicated mortiser (which I've since ditched for a Domino incidentally).

I think the best you can describe is that I've "got by" with it. I built a table and fence but its adjustment and capacities are poor compared to proper drill presses. I've been meaning to upgrade for a long time so your thread caught my eye. I too always eyeball the Axy range whenever I'm in there and they did upgrade the trade range recently. But I've never used one.
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Re: Castings - how good is good enough?

Postby StevieB » 07 Apr 2015, 20:48

Not sure where you are Rob, but if close you are more than welcome to come and have a play with mine. I am approx 30 miles north of Cambridge for reference.

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Re: Castings - how good is good enough?

Postby Rob » 08 Apr 2015, 00:00

That's most kind Steve, trouble is I'm not far from Reading so pushing a 3 hour drive. My brother lives in Somersham which is a small village near Cambridge so if I'm up that way I might be tempted. We don't have anything in the diary for the next month or so as my wife is shortly due surgery.

It's a kind offer but realistically I think doubtful I'll get up there. Perhaps you would be kind enough to report your findings as you get more work done with it over time as I'm not in any desperate hurry. As I say I've already waited 7 years :-)

I'd be interested in your opinion of the grunt under load (40-50mm forstener) and also any run out type inaccuracies of the quill and also how the rack and pinion of the table rise and fall performs. They always seem so flimsy when I examine them in the Axy stores, lots of play and a jolty type travel. I always come away disappointed. I notice they've recently got some posh and expensive engineering drill presses in (some over a grand) where the quality is a lot better but my needs are for wood and the odd bit of smaller metal.
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Re: Castings - how good is good enough?

Postby kirkpoore1 » 08 Apr 2015, 03:30

Rob & Steve:

I think you're both discovering that you get what you pay for. You can pay up front in cash, or you can pay in time spent on a restoration. Frankly, the best bang for the buck (do you guys have a similar expression?) is to buy used and do a restoration. It really isn't all that hard--I did it, and you can too.

Here's mine. I started with this:
Image

And ended with this:
Image
Complete with pre-value-engineered Quick Grips!:) Total price for a much bigger DP and complex restoration than you're looking for, was under $400. If I hadn't had to build a base from scratch, it would have been under $300.

Here is a fairly detailed thread on OWWM.org about a drill press restoration:
http://owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=141726
If you sign up and post over there, you can get lots of help. Unless you have broken parts, you'll only buy a few things like bearings, a belt, paint, power cord & plug, and maybe a pulley or two.

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Re: Castings - how good is good enough?

Postby Wizard9999 » 08 Apr 2015, 07:20

kirkpoore1 wrote:It really isn't all that hard--I did it, and you can too...

...Total price for a much bigger DP and complex restoration than you're looking for, was under $400. If I hadn't had to build a base from scratch, it would have been under $300.


I suspect your typical modesty at play here again Kirk, and maybe a bit of US price / cost (not to mention space) envy about to break out!

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Re: Castings - how good is good enough?

Postby StevieB » 08 Apr 2015, 07:40

No problem Rob, offer is there if you are ever this way. Will indeed report back any findings with use. The rack and pinion is not the best, the rack seems to sit on the post held top and bottom by a collar rather than be bolted to the post, but I reckon it could be bolted in place. When the table is locked off it is rock steady and as I don't vary the height much it is not a major concern for me.

Kirk - nice idea, and as Rob said earlier in the thread, getting a Meddings or a Fobco and doing exactly that is 'best practice' if you have a) the time, b) the skill and c) a chain hoist ;) Seriously, I didn't have any of those three requirements and was working to a budget. For the price I am very happy with what I have got. Sure, you can spend a fortune and get something better engineered, or you can get lucky on e-bay, or you can get a second hand cast iron lump from somewhere like Scott and Sergeant and it will last a couple of lifetimes and require a reinforced floor. Horses for courses. I do love looking at peoples restorations of old wadkins and the like, but a bit beyond me at the current time unfortunately!

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Re: Castings - how good is good enough?

Postby kirkpoore1 » 08 Apr 2015, 13:25

Wizard9999 wrote:
kirkpoore1 wrote:It really isn't all that hard--I did it, and you can too...

...Total price for a much bigger DP and complex restoration than you're looking for, was under $400. If I hadn't had to build a base from scratch, it would have been under $300.


I suspect your typical modesty at play here again Kirk, and maybe a bit of US price / cost (not to mention space) envy about to break out!

Terry.


Terry, please don't say the word "break" when talking about my DP:
Image
They don't always go well, unfortunately.

Steve: As I said, you have to make your own decision. But once you start using good machines, your level of "acceptable" will definitely change.:)

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Re: Castings - how good is good enough?

Postby Rob » 08 Apr 2015, 16:41

I think you've hit the nail on the head there Kirk. And I think that's part of my problem, I'm actually paranoid about starting down the road of restoring one of these beautiful old beasts because I know I'll get hooked :-) I simply don't have the time to get all I want done today let alone if I start tinkering around with lumps of 70 year old cast iron. I'm a Yorkshireman and large lumps of steel and muck are very deeply ingrained in my DNA which I've resisted thus far, instead favouring to build or turn things. I reckon, if I allow that dam to be breached and actually buy an old girl I'll become Wallace mark II and be lost to getting anything done again :-) I may also have to seek out and use that massive jar of swarfega I've got rusting in a corner somewhere!!!

Bang for buck...yep, well used here :-)

Thanks also Steve...I look forward to hearing how you get on because if I do go new that's likely the model I'll get (or the Record as you also pointed out). Although I do like the look of those "Alien" type DP's where the head is really long and can be tilted. I keep getting asked to make welly racks for the kids school and having an angle drilling function saves me from having to make jigs.
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