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Very old helical (cough cough) stair - FINISHED

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Re: Very old spiral stair: 1st-2nd floor.

Postby Commander » 13 Dec 2016, 05:50

Pinch wrote:
Commander wrote:Sheesh Paul that looks like one hell of a job, I can also see why those stair don't comply with current building regs, they appear to be down right dangerous... Is there some other form of access to the upstairs area? How does one go about moving furniture up or down such a staircase? :o :shock:


Cheers Erich. Nope, that's it Sir! The headroom isn't too bad, so some furniture will be okay, but a TC bookcase will be a definite no no. :|

I wouldn't like to try climbing up them to go to bed after a few Bertie Bassets. :lol:


Up should be fine (if you utilize all fours), but down could be a right challenge! :lol: :lol:
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Re: Very old spiral stair: 1st-2nd floor.

Postby chataigner » 13 Dec 2016, 18:24

Pinch wrote:
kirkpoore1 wrote:At least they turn the right direction. The upstairs guy can swing his sword, while the downstairs guy will just hit the post.:)

Kirk


Boom-boom!

Very good Kirk - I likey! 8-)


...unless he's left handed.
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Re: Very old spiral stair: 1st-2nd floor.

Postby Pinch » 14 Dec 2016, 09:07

chataigner wrote:
Pinch wrote:
kirkpoore1 wrote:At least they turn the right direction. The upstairs guy can swing his sword, while the downstairs guy will just hit the post.:)

Kirk


Boom-boom!

Very good Kirk - I likey! 8-)


...unless he's left handed.


I think they're ambidextrous.
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Re: Very old spiral stair: 1st-2nd floor.

Postby kirkpoore1 » 14 Dec 2016, 23:49

Pinch wrote:
chataigner wrote:
kirkpoore1 wrote:At least they turn the right direction. The upstairs guy can swing his sword, while the downstairs guy will just hit the post.:)

Kirk


...unless he's left handed.


I think they're ambidextrous.


Only until he makes a mistake...
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Re: Very old helical (cough cough) stair: 1st-2nd floor.

Postby Pinch » 15 Dec 2016, 09:10

Ah yes, but what if neither of them make a mistake - ever?
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Re: Very old helical (cough cough) stair: 1st-2nd floor.

Postby Pinch » 09 Jan 2017, 19:16

Update:

I wasn't due to start this job until next week, but my clients asked if I could bring it forward and after a bit of jiggling around, I've made a start today. The only downside is that I was hoping to make The Oak Blob this week, so this will have to wait a short while.

As the making/assembly of this stair is on site, there's very little to do in the shop. I have however glued some pieces together to achieve the full depths of the tapered treads.

Image

Image

I'll clean these up tomorrow and form the front nosing and the groove to the underside of the treads ready to receive the risers. I shall also make any other preparations I need to make before site work starts on Wednesday morning.

Report back soon.

Cheers,
8-)
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Re: Very old helical (cough cough) stair: 1st-2nd floor.

Postby TrimTheKing » 10 Jan 2017, 09:13

Looking forwards to this Pinch.

Cheers
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Re: Very old spiral stair: 1st-2nd floor.

Postby Commander » 10 Jan 2017, 18:34

kirkpoore1 wrote:
Pinch wrote:
chataigner wrote:
...unless he's left handed.


I think they're ambidextrous.


Only until he makes a mistake...


That reminds me of The Black Knight, "It is but a flesh wound!" :lol:
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Re: Very old helical (cough cough) stair: 1st-2nd floor.

Postby Pinch » 11 Jan 2017, 19:00

TrimTheKing wrote:Looking forwards to this Pinch.

Cheers
Mark


Cheers Mark 8-)
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Re: Very old spiral stair: 1st-2nd floor.

Postby Pinch » 11 Jan 2017, 19:04

Commander wrote:
That reminds me of The Black Knight, "It is but a flesh wound!" :lol:



"Oh, oh, I see! Running away, eh? Come back here and take what's coming to you! I'll bite your legs off!"

:lol: :lol:
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Re: Very old helical (cough cough) stair: 1st-2nd floor.

Postby Pinch » 11 Jan 2017, 19:56

Okay, this job is another one of those tricky parking jobbies. :|

I could only park on yellows 100 yards away from the property to unload the van - this took about an hour. :x

I then drove for a while to find somewhere to park the old bus. I eventually found a long stay car park 10 hours for £1.50 - result. The only negative was a 20 minute walk to the job and all up hill. :twisted:

Anyways, once I set everything up and organised myself, I got to work in carefully removing the old stair. Here it was this morning where it's been for the last 200 years.
Image

You can see by the floor, this part of the stair was originally closed in probably with a T&G timber framed partition. The stile of the frame is still fastened to the wall.
Image

The top bit is a bit of a mess.
Image

I enjoy removing old work like this. I find it interesting to see how the old carpenters in their day went about making things including a staircase like this one and although it's been here for a long time, I don't feel sad as this stair certainly needed replacing.

Here, I've started to dismantle the first few treads/risers. I can clearly see the first few treads/risers were fixed to another T&G timber partition separating the bathroom to the landing, although the room back then was probably a bedroom. It looks like timber work and plasterboard was added much later to thicken the wall - 1970's I reckon.
Image

Image

Here, you can see the treads have been nailed up into the underside of the risers using handmade cut nails. Of course today, we would use a metal fixing through the riser into the tread.
Image

And here is one of those old Georgian handmade cut nails. Lovely. 8-)
Image

Here is the wall. :|
Image

Now then, I will be making individual stud wall supports below each tread/riser to the floor and up to tread #5. From there up to the ceiling, the plan was to make and fix neat battens to the wall following the treads and risers. But, I don't feel battens will be adequate support on this wall, so plan 'B' was to cover this part of the wall with a sheet of 18mm MDF cut to suit the treads & risers. This plan will provide excellent support for the top half of the stair and will look very neat as well. So this is what I'm going to do. 8-)

Here is the stair completely removed and ready for a new one.
Image

Image

Image

Image

None of the old treads were housed into the post as shown here and I'm going to follow suit with the new.
Image

Image

I shall start building the new tomorrow and I'm looking forward to it. 8-)

Report back soon.

Cheers,

:text-bravo:
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Re: Very old helical (cough cough) stair: 1st-2nd floor.

Postby Malc2098 » 11 Jan 2017, 21:40

Nice!
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Re: Very old helical (cough cough) stair: 1st-2nd floor.

Postby Mike G » 11 Jan 2017, 21:56

I'll bet they creaked a bit.
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Re: Very old helical (cough cough) stair: 1st-2nd floor.

Postby Norty Raskel » 12 Jan 2017, 09:07

Paul,

Have the occupiers/owners moved our for the duration or do you have to provide them with access to the upper floor at the end of the day?

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Re: Very old helical (cough cough) stair: 1st-2nd floor.

Postby Commander » 13 Jan 2017, 05:24

1st off, excellent start Paul! I'm looking forward to seeing this one go in, and secondly the whole parking situation boggles my mind... It seems to be the norm to some extend, but it is rather absurd if you ask me...
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Re: Very old helical (cough cough) stair: 1st-2nd floor.

Postby Pinch » 13 Jan 2017, 17:06

Malc2098 wrote:Nice!


Cheers Malc 8-)
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Re: Very old helical (cough cough) stair: 1st-2nd floor.

Postby Pinch » 13 Jan 2017, 17:08

Mike G wrote:I'll bet they creaked a bit.


They were doing a bit more than creaking... darn thing was falling apart - almost. :|
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Re: Very old helical (cough cough) stair: 1st-2nd floor.

Postby Pinch » 13 Jan 2017, 17:13

Norty Raskel wrote:Paul,

Have the occupiers/owners moved our for the duration or do you have to provide them with access to the upper floor at the end of the day?

Jon


No... but they work long hours so they're not there that much - leave early and get back late. They're sleeping in the living room while the work is being done - well, you know what I mean. I haven't been in today and I'm not in over the weekend. I should be finished next Wednesday or Thursday all going well. 8-)
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Re: Very old helical (cough cough) stair: 1st-2nd floor.

Postby Pinch » 13 Jan 2017, 17:21

Commander wrote:1st off, excellent start Paul! I'm looking forward to seeing this one go in, and secondly the whole parking situation boggles my mind... It seems to be the norm to some extend, but it is rather absurd if you ask me...


Cheers Erich. Yes, parking in this country can be an issue in these old quaint towns - or anywhere come to think of it. The road this house is in for example is so narrow, there's only parking down one side and even then, it can be challenging just driving by. The pavement is very narrow too. I was lucky yesterday to find a space just about big enough for my old bus, which gave me good opportunity to load up the bus with the old stair by the end of the day. That's now down at the shop ready for the burner, which will be on tomorrow while I start working on The Oak Blob with the houdies present (Mrs P away for the weekend) and a big Cornish pasty in the oven for us to feast on come lunchtime - marvellous. 8-)
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Re: Very old helical (cough cough) stair: 1st-2nd floor.

Postby Commander » 13 Jan 2017, 19:39

Pinch wrote:
Commander wrote:1st off, excellent start Paul! I'm looking forward to seeing this one go in, and secondly the whole parking situation boggles my mind... It seems to be the norm to some extend, but it is rather absurd if you ask me...


Cheers Erich. Yes, parking in this country can be an issue in these old quaint towns - or anywhere come to think of it. The road this house is in for example is so narrow, there's only parking down one side and even then, it can be challenging just driving by. The pavement is very narrow too. I was lucky yesterday to find a space just about big enough for my old bus, which gave me good opportunity to load up the bus with the old stair by the end of the day. That's now down at the shop ready for the burner, which will be on tomorrow while I start working on The Oak Blob with the houdies present (Mrs P away for the weekend) and a big Cornish pasty in the oven for us to feast on come lunchtime - marvellous. 8-)


Well I guess if there is no space then there is no space... Your planned day sounds excellent, I'm a pie lover myself, but I suspect what goes for pies around here wouldn't get to glances over in your neck of the woods!
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Re: Very old helical (cough cough) stair: 1st-2nd floor.

Postby Rod » 13 Jan 2017, 20:42

The Cornish would get very upset calling their pasty a pie!

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Re: Very old helical (cough cough) stair: 1st-2nd floor.

Postby Pinch » 13 Jan 2017, 21:41

Erich, that all depends on what’s in your pies chap! :lol:

The Cornish pasty is predominantly beef with potato, onion and pepper wrapped in a shortcrust pastry to a particular shape and fold. The traditional pasties were half filled with beef and apple, so the workmen of the day had a savoury lunch with a pudding all in one meal. But like Rod writes, the Cornish folk would never call their pasties pies – they’re funny old buggers them Cornish folk. It used to be said many years ago; there was England and then there was Cornwall. 8-) Beautiful beautiful county. I could comfortably live there for the rest of me days. 8-)

In fact while I’m thinking about it, some history on Blandford Forum (which is where this stair job is and also the closest town to where I live); the town was partly rebuilt shortly after a large fire of 1731. The fire started in a soap boiler’s workshop which is a public house today – The King’s Arms. The rebuild was made by two brothers who were highly regarded builders, furniture makers, ecclesiastical carvers and experts at plasterwork, but are most notable for their rebuilding work at Blandford Forum following the great fire of 1731. The brothers were John & William Bastard and became known as "The Bastard Brothers of Blandford Forum." :shock:

:obscene-drinkingcheers:

NB: In advance before pressing the 'submit' button - I don't know whether John & William's surname will be allowed and might be asterisked (*). Let's click n see. If it isn't allowed, I'll edit, but if it is, I'll post something in the 'Your favourite listenings...' Okay... here goes. :lol:

EDIT:

:text-bravo:

Right then, it's Friday evening, Mrs P is in Newcastle visiting her new granddaughter... it's just the houndies and me... good enough excuse to open the bar - right now!

:obscene-drinkingcheers:
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Re: Very old helical (cough cough) stair: 1st-2nd floor.

Postby Phil » 14 Jan 2017, 08:23

Pinch wrote:
Commander wrote:1st off, excellent start Paul! I'm looking forward to seeing this one go in, and secondly the whole parking situation boggles my mind... It seems to be the norm to some extend, but it is rather absurd if you ask me...


Cheers Erich. Yes, parking in this country can be an issue in these old quaint towns - or anywhere come to think of it. The road this house is in for example is so narrow, there's only parking down one side and even then, it can be challenging just driving by. The pavement is very narrow too. I was lucky yesterday to find a space just about big enough for my old bus, which gave me good opportunity to load up the bus with the old stair by the end of the day.



We experienced the narrow streets and lack of parking in all the small “towns”.

Then when you find parking in an open ‘field’ (whoopee) only to get back to your car finding a parking ticket. This was either Bath or Stratford Upon Avon.

“Yes sir, you have to pay at that machine down theeeeerrreeee …………” :?

We wrote them a long letter and they were sympathetic to ignorant tourists.
As it was a rental car, if I just ignored it, Avis would have just debited my credit card.
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Re: Very old helical (cough cough) stair: 1st-2nd floor.

Postby Pinch » 15 Jan 2017, 10:41

:lol: Yes, our Traffic Wardens have a reputation for being very annoying. But well done for winning the sympathy note - it does work sometimes. 8-)

Darn tourists!! :lol: :lol:

:text-bravo:
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Re: Very old helical (cough cough) stair: 1st-2nd floor.

Postby Pinch » 16 Jan 2017, 20:15

Update: Greetings! 8-)

I wasn't going to post any more pictures until the job is complete, which should be Wednesday or Thursday - depending on the CD/book case. But, I thought I'd post a few piccies up tonight before some of the construction is boxed in.

Since the wall exposed itself to me after removing the old stair, I decided not to go with the batten under the treads & risers option. I wasn't at all confident with gaining an adequate fixing into the walls, which looks like (after a bit of digging around) they're cob, but, this doesn't make sense. Whatever, it doesn't matter as I have now used a sheet of 18mm MDF cut to suit the treads & risers mainly focussing from tread #5/6 upwards.

Here's the sheet in place and not fixed to anything. At this stage, I cut the plumb & seat cuts as an approximate with the plan on cutting the seat cuts for the treads more accurately as I start building up from tread #1.
Image

Here are the first four treads and risers fitted. Everything is glued and screw fixed and then grain pinned.
Image

And here, 7 treads and 8 risers are now fitted.
Image

Image

From the landing looking down - obviously.
Image

And here's what's going on underneath. The first 4 treads have small stud wall supports below them. Tread #5 will have a CD/bookcase below and #6 upwards will be supported on the MDF wall panel, although treads #4 & 5 are also on the MDF as well. On the opposite sides, all the treads & risers are firmly connected to the post.
Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

The MDF panel supporting the top half of the stair will look very neat when it's all decorated, without the presence of battens. There is however a small grey area which I don't what to do with just yet and that's where the MDF meets the plastered wall. The lady of the house is off work tomorrow so I shall put a few ideas forward and see what she thinks.

Report back soon.

Cheers,

:text-bravo:
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