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Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby Wizard9999 » 27 Sep 2016, 00:04

Very nice Dan. Any tips or lessons learnt, or was it all pretty straight forward?

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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby Halo Jones » 27 Sep 2016, 12:27

Looking good :eusa-clap: Will you be insulating it in any way?
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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby Dan0741 » 27 Sep 2016, 21:00

Wizard9999 wrote:Very nice Dan. Any tips or lessons learnt, or was it all pretty straight forward?

Terry


Terry - Relatively straightforward - just a few things to be careful with.. I had some difficulty cutting the shallow angle cuts on the rails, but thats more to do with the limited tools I have. I did the one screw per
rail or brace and will see how that works. I used sash cramps to pull it together, but loosened off a couple of turns prior to screwing anticipating swelling in the winter... :D

Im very conscious that the install will be the making of this bit, making the door will be child's play compared to that. Im looking for a day with no wife and children and the opportunity to turn the air blue if required! :oops:

Halo Jones - I didn't consider insulation, maybe wrongly, but I took the view that the entire build is relatively well insulated for a shed that is...and given that a wood stove install is imminent, some limited airflow wont cause too many issues.

I put another coat of paint on tonight. :)
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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby Dan0741 » 27 Sep 2016, 21:23

So windows, and a couple of quandries.

This is what I plan to have x2.

Image

In these apertures...

Image

These are a bit of a luxury, principally because they have to be made to size because I have left them till last (I wouldn't do that again)

Questions...

May I ask of those who have commercial knowledge, very roughly what should this sort of thing cost?

Also i have been asked if want sapele sills, Answer is of course dependent on cost and efficacy once installed? This isnt a show property after all. Is it worth it? If so what would be the cost difference between the hardwwood and softwood sills.

Given I will be glazing, painting and installing, is there anything I can do in preparatory stages to prolong their life, paint, preservative or similar.

Any tips with the sealed units? I will need 6 x 750x435 24mm deep.

Never done anything with windows/glass before so any guidance very much appreciated... :D
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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby Wizard9999 » 27 Sep 2016, 23:47

Dan

Don't take this the wrong way, but given your uninsulated doors why on earth are you going to the expense of sealed unit double glazing? The surface area of the doors must be at least four times that of the windows.

On cills I struggle to see why you would incur extra cost unless it is minimal and the benefit is huge, I almost daren't say it but it is after all only an outbuilding. Over the last few weeks I have been throwing up a storage shed to free up garage space and I made some simple non opening windows for which I made the cills out of left over 4x2, once painted they look perfectly adequate for a shed, to my eye anyway.

Terry

Who, in the interests of honest disclosure has doors in his workshop with as much insulation as his walls but recycled single glazed windows.
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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby old » 28 Sep 2016, 10:19

Have you considered diy double glazing with poly carbonate you apply a magnetic tape around the frame inside and the opposite polarity to the plastic its best to have some small gaps to prevent misting and snap the two together with something to rest the pane on and take the weight £12 + del each at 3mm.. https://www.amazon.co.uk/12mm-Magnetic- ... B0071LM428
Plastic people or others for poly.
Should stop condensation on the inside of your window even though its not a fully sealed system.
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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby Dan0741 » 28 Sep 2016, 17:04

Wizard9999 wrote:Dan

Don't take this the wrong way, but given your uninsulated doors why on earth are you going to the expense of sealed unit double glazing? The surface area of the doors must be at least four times that of the windows.

On cills I struggle to see why you would incur extra cost unless it is minimal and the benefit is huge, I almost daren't say it but it is after all only an outbuilding. Over the last few weeks I have been throwing up a storage shed to free up garage space and I made some simple non opening windows for which I made the cills out of left over 4x2, once painted they look perfectly adequate for a shed, to my eye anyway.

Terry

Who, in the interests of honest disclosure has doors in his workshop with as much insulation as his walls but recycled single glazed windows.


Terry - get some soapy water and start washing your mouth out! Im not sure what was most hurtful, the "only" or "outbuilding" :shock:

Joking aside you are right of course, but let me explain. I made an error very early doors by thinking I could find a couple of windows that would fit. Now I have done the research I understand how naive that was. But it was very early - at framing stage, that I made this decision. Im now left with two apertures that I thought were fairly common sizes that need windows. I cant find any on ebay, gumtree, local reclamation yards or anywhere. I have considered building myself but think that is a bit ambitious at this stage. So i need some built to size, not ideal but its where im at. I have cast about for cheap decent looking wooden windows and am surprised at the cost but i am nearly finished and dont want to spoil what ive done so far.

The windows will be the same price if i have sealed units or not as i have asked for a price without glass so i can make savings by fitting glazing myself. Having costed up the glass, for both windows which are roughly 4x5 ft for sealed units will be less than 200 quid. Again not ideal.

What i have considered is that whilst i will only ever use this building as a workshop, i wont be living here for ever and i have wanted since day 1 to make a building that could function adequately as a home office or similar when i move on. Changing a door and changing windows are in my view quite different things, when marketing the property if someone wanted to use as an office a new door would be fairly simple, new windows x 2 are a different proposition.

So a mixture of poor decision making early on; wanting it to have as wide as possible range of uses and aesthetics brings me to where I am now. Seeking cheap wooden windows made to a specific size and might as well go with sealed units for the limited (bearing in mind the overall cost) price differential.

I sort of think the opportunity for cock up from the beginning was huge and i seem to have come through so far relatively unscathed, so take this one pretty much on the chin!

:? :D
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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby Dan0741 » 28 Sep 2016, 17:06

old wrote:Have you considered diy double glazing with poly carbonate you apply a magnetic tape around the frame inside and the opposite polarity to the plastic its best to have some small gaps to prevent misting and snap the two together with something to rest the pane on and take the weight £12 + del each at 3mm.. https://www.amazon.co.uk/12mm-Magnetic- ... B0071LM428
Plastic people or others for poly.
Should stop condensation on the inside of your window even though its not a fully sealed system.



Thanks for the tip Old - will have a gander at it. :D
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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby Rod » 28 Sep 2016, 20:48

Why not amend the opening to suit standard sizes.

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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby Dan0741 » 29 Sep 2016, 20:38

Rod wrote:Why not amend the opening to suit standard sizes.

Rod


Yes, i know, but i seem to have managed a fairly reasonable finish and messing about with these openings will cause me to either purchase a load more feather edge and refix or tack on some offcuts that I think will look like a bodge. Its not the end of the world, can think of worse drama's! :D
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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby Dan0741 » 06 Oct 2016, 20:53

So door all but finished. Quite pleased with it...a few tricks incorporated from previous versions!

Image


Image

Look a bit plain but hoping some door furniture (suffolk latch or similar) will break them up a bit...Ive also installed a 'stop' all the way around inside the door frame and am getting some threshold to install tomorrow. :D
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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby Malc2098 » 06 Oct 2016, 20:59

Dan, what paint did you use on the feather edge?

I might like that finish on my project, (if Mission Control agrees!)
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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby Dan0741 » 06 Oct 2016, 21:13

Bedec Barn Paint in French Grey.

http://www.fixingswarehouse.co.uk/home- ... semi-gloss

I bought 2.

Its lovely, but...I have used Larch Feather edge as the external cladding, which I think is beautiful, and I took inordinate amounts of time to make sure it was neat. And I pre-drilled all holes and used stainless ring shank nails to avoid stains.

If I had my time again I think I might leave the wood untreated as by now it would have started to fade and look grey/silver, which next to the slate would look great. But might not last as long I suppose...

PS. Mission control chose mine too!

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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby Malc2098 » 06 Oct 2016, 22:09

Thanks for the tips. All clipped and saved to Evernote for my project.
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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby Wizard9999 » 06 Oct 2016, 23:43

Mike G wrote:No, Dan, I mean having a rebate running along each edge to create an overlap. The boards lay flat.

Image


Mike

Just making a door and want to check something. If as per the picture the rebated boards are butted up tight, if they shrink any gap will be covered, but there is no room for expansion. Should I be leaving a small gap between the boards for expansion?

Terry.
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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby ScotlandtheDave » 07 Oct 2016, 06:53

Dan0741 wrote:So door all but finished. Quite pleased with it...a few tricks incorporated from previous versions!

Image


Looking very neat mate and fits the frame beautifully! A couple of q's:

The T hinges, any benefit of using these over regular door hinges? I see they are bent to shape so wonder if it helps with the door swing?

I also wonder if you had any issues with door swing and the cladding outside, or does it not touch this?

One final thing- can you move the slab over a bit please, it's not centred on the door ;)

Great work as always mate!
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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby Mike G » 07 Oct 2016, 07:32

Wizard9999 wrote:
Mike G wrote:No, Dan, I mean having a rebate running along each edge to create an overlap. The boards lay flat.

Image


Mike

Just making a door and want to check something. If as per the picture the rebated boards are butted up tight, if they shrink any gap will be covered, but there is no room for expansion. Should I be leaving a small gap between the boards for expansion?

Terry.


If you were building in summer, then yes. But at this time of the year I'm not sure I'd bother. One thing I would certainly do, though, which I regret not doing, is to pre-paint the boards all round. When the gaps open up you want to see painted wood, not bare wood.
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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby Mike G » 07 Oct 2016, 07:37

ScotlandtheDave wrote:.......The T hinges, any benefit of using these over regular door hinges? I see they are bent to shape so wonder if it helps with the door swing?......


The benefit is that the screw fixings go into the face of the timber, whereas attempting to use butt hinges with a ledged boarded door means the screws will either go into the end-grain of the ledges, or, sod's law, into the gap between the vertical board and the end of the ledge. Worse than even this, it would mean extending the ledge right to the end of the door's width, which will give problems when the boards expand and contract with the seasons. Definitely, definitely use tee hinges. (And the reason for bending them is that they then fix to the inside, meaning the door isn't removable from the outside by anyone with a screwdriver).
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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby Wizard9999 » 07 Oct 2016, 08:00

Mike G wrote:If you were building in summer, then yes. But at this time of the year I'm not sure I'd bother. One thing I would certainly do, though, which I regret not doing, is to pre-paint the boards all round. When the gaps open up you want to see painted wood, not bare wood.


Thanks Mike, I have the dado set up for a half inch rebate so think there is scope to leave a small gap for expansion but the bulk for shrinkage. Hate painting but it is on the list to do once the boards are rebated.

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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby ScotlandtheDave » 07 Oct 2016, 08:05

Mike G wrote:
ScotlandtheDave wrote:.......The T hinges, any benefit of using these over regular door hinges? I see they are bent to shape so wonder if it helps with the door swing?......


The benefit is that the screw fixings go into the face of the timber, whereas attempting to use butt hinges with a ledged boarded door means the screws will either go into the end-grain of the ledges, or, sod's law, into the gap between the vertical board and the end of the ledge. Worse than even this, it would mean extending the ledge right to the end of the door's width, which will give problems when the boards expand and contract with the seasons. Definitely, definitely use tee hinges. (And the reason for bending them is that they then fix to the inside, meaning the door isn't removable from the outside by anyone with a screwdriver).


Gotcha, makes perfect sense on both counts!

#everydayzaskoolday :)
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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby Dan0741 » 19 Oct 2016, 19:53

So I paid a visit to a local reclaim yard today looking for some wooden boards that I can use as interior wall cladding for my shed. The fella at the yard showed me some floorboards that he tells me are 100 years old. He will sell me enough to clad the interior for about 160.00 quid.

The boards are dirty, some painted, full of nails and some of the tongue and groove is damaged. I want to retain the character of the boards so don't want to pass through a planner/sander or similar.

Question - Any ideas or guidance on how I can transform into characterful cladding without retaining dirt etc.. :D
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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby Mike G » 19 Oct 2016, 20:08

Soap, water, scrubbing brush......and elbow grease! :lol:
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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby Dan0741 » 19 Oct 2016, 20:45

Thought you might say that; reclaim fella suggested a power hose and wire brush on a drill for the tough bits! Will see what is most effective... :?
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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby ScotlandtheDave » 20 Oct 2016, 21:05

ScotlandtheDave wrote:
Dan0741 wrote:So door all but finished. Quite pleased with it...a few tricks incorporated from previous versions!

Image




Dan, revisiting some cladding threads for inspiration. Few q's for you mate if that's ok?

How 'deep' is your cladding off the face of the building?

Are your door hinges mounted on the cladding facing strip, or on the door frame itself? Looks like they are mounted on the strip facing the cladding but I can't be sure.

How does your door sit relative to the frame if it's flush with the cladding? Is it quite far 'out' from the inside walls?

Finally what sizes of timber did you use and is the door sturdy enough?

Thanks in advance mate :)
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Re: Dans Shed - Large(ish) workshop construction...

Postby Dan0741 » 20 Oct 2016, 22:17

Dave - no worries matey.

How 'deep' is your cladding off the face of the building?

The battens are an inch thick and the feather edge is about an inch at the thickest part. But obviously they overlap. The 'thickness' of the cladding is easy to work out as when you work out your overlap, ie one board over the other (i did 30mm if i remember correctly) then the thickness will be replicated over the face. Just a word on this, I found the thickness of the cladding plus battens was a lot more than one would have imagined. For this reason you might find out that 75mm posts at the corners isnt quite enough? Mine are just about deep enough.

Are your door hinges mounted on the cladding facing strip, or on the door frame itself? Looks like they are mounted on the strip facing the cladding but I can't be sure.

I was going to reply to you about this and forgot! Im by no means an expert, and could have it totally wrong but I ended up with an aperture for my door in the framing. I then inserted a door frame of 6x2 screwed to the 4x2 framing, with mitred internal corners. I wanted this because my wall build up with cladding on the outside is 6 inches thick so it sort of neatens it all up. The 6x2's are flush with the internal framing. They also gave me an edge to work to for the cladding.

How does your door sit relative to the frame if it's flush with the cladding? Is it quite far 'out' from the inside walls?

My door sits about 10mm inside my frame. This is based on the bend that I put on the T hinges. This basically puts all screws behind the closed door for security. So yes if you consider the wall build up is 6 inches thick and the door is build from timber an inch thick and is 10 mm back from the frame, the door is much nearer the front than the back. But this is what i wanted. Door opens outward to enable me to better use internal space also as I think Roger said makes moving large objects much easier. I know you are past this stage now but for these reasons i also made my door 2100 tall and 950 wide, much larger than standard door size. Yesterday I put a trim detail inside the 6x2 door frame, this works as a stop so the door has something to stop against and not travel fully through the aperture. The only problem here is that the bent hinges preclude a stop all the way around, but not a drama. I have also put a brush draft excluder on the bottom and.

Finally what sizes of timber did you use and is the door sturdy enough?

Door plenty sturdy enough, 22mm flooring boards. Would perhaps look to insulate in the future, but not currently too fussed.

You cant see it too well but this is the latest state of developments...

Image

:D
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