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Log cabin kit or self build?

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Log cabin kit or self build?

Postby PearlJammer » 06 Oct 2015, 13:57

Hi everyone, I am wanting an outside space in the form of a log cabin or self build. It will be 5m X 5m. I don't mind if it has a flat or pitched roof. I want to insulate it throughout. So would you advise buying a cabin (seen one for £3000) then insulating it and plasterboard it myself or would I get better quality if I built it myself. I can do a little DIY but this is far above anything I have done before, but I'm not afraid to try, just worried I'll mess it up. What do you think?

Lee
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Re: Log cabin kit or self build?

Postby Andyp » 06 Oct 2015, 15:11

Lee,
Welcome to the forum. Just in case you have not already read them here are a couple of threads that prove with a lot of thought and a few practical skills it is not impossible to build your own.

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=1278

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=198

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=781

These are workshop builds but I am sure you will see that the quality of the build will far exceed anything you can buy of the shelf.
If you have any specific details you would like to know more about please feel free to ask away. I am sure there will be someone around willing to help.
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Re: Log cabin kit or self build?

Postby Mike G » 06 Oct 2015, 17:04

PearlJammer wrote:Hi everyone, I am wanting an outside space in the form of a log cabin or self build. It will be 5m X 5m. I don't mind if it has a flat or pitched roof. I want to insulate it throughout. So would you advise buying a cabin (seen one for £3000) then insulating it and plasterboard it myself or would I get better quality if I built it myself. I can do a little DIY but this is far above anything I have done before, but I'm not afraid to try, just worried I'll mess it up. What do you think?

Lee


Welcome to the forum, Lee.

Those log cabins are such a waste of wood! By that I mean they have solid thick lumps of wood for the walls, which is expensive and unnecessary, and, worst of all, uninsulated. From a design point of view, I think that they'll go out of fashion as quickly as they came into it, and they'll be as symptomatic of the 2010s as shag pile carpets were to the 70s, and vertical cedar boarding was to the 2000s. I say build your own. It really isn't difficult if you have some basic skills, a few tools, and a whole lot of energy and time.
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Re: Log cabin kit or self build?

Postby PearlJammer » 06 Oct 2015, 17:58

Ok thanks guys. Now where do I start? I have a nice flat patio area where it's going to be situated. Do I need a concrete base or do I have other options? The thing I'm most worried about is keeping things straight and the roof seems daunting. Looked at boarding and plaster boarding on you tube and seems like something I could have a go at. Also I have a double glazed window so will need to buy a door/French doors and am clueless where to even start fitting these.

Do you think employing someone who knows what they're doing and just be a labourer for him would save money?

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Re: Log cabin kit or self build?

Postby Mike G » 06 Oct 2015, 18:45

Further to my previous......

A square is a bad shape for a building. It leaves you with a big funny looking roof. Instead of 5m x 5m, consider having 6m x 4m. With a roof spanning 4 metres rather than 5 the timbers become smaller, the height is reduced, and the building looks a whole lot better.
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Re: Log cabin kit or self build?

Postby PearlJammer » 06 Oct 2015, 19:23

Due to space restrictions it would have to be 5m x 6m, would that be ok?

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Re: Log cabin kit or self build?

Postby Mike G » 06 Oct 2015, 20:06

You're confusing me..........it was 5m x 5m before.

It's the 5m width that is the issue. That makes for a big roof, getting on for the size of a cottage roof. I would certainly try to make the building narrower if it were me, and if it suited the activity within the building.
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Re: Log cabin kit or self build?

Postby Wizard9999 » 06 Oct 2015, 20:12

Hi PearlJammer

I would echo build over buy having just built my own workshop. I had nothing by the way of relevant experience before hand but if you take it step-by-step there is nothing that is beyond even a virtual novice (well not when you have the support of the helpful folk on this forum). The one thing I would warn you of though is not to underestimate the time a build can consume, if you have little spare time / significant other commitments which mean you have only a few hours a week it will take you a long time.

Hope you do decide to build and start a thread on the project so we can all follow your progress!

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Re: Log cabin kit or self build?

Postby Rob » 06 Oct 2015, 20:40

PearlJammer wrote:Ok thanks guys. Now where do I start? I have a nice flat patio area where it's going to be situated. Do I need a concrete base or do I have other options? The thing I'm most worried about is keeping things straight and the roof seems daunting. Looked at boarding and plaster boarding on you tube and seems like something I could have a go at. Also I have a double glazed window so will need to buy a door/French doors and am clueless where to even start fitting these.

Do you think employing someone who knows what they're doing and just be a labourer for him would save money?

Lee


Well no....... It won't save money will it as you'll have to pay the chippy. It would save a huge and I mean huge amount of time. It will save some wasted material cost too

My sense from your posts is you have very little experience building. What might make sense is to develop a plan IE a scaled drawing and then have a chippy help lead you for the first day or two. Then have an arrangement where he could "guest" back every now and then when you get stuck.

This forum resource will be a huge source of excellent solutions and know how but the time will be long. Depends how quickly you wish to be installed making shavings. The upside us you'll learn a heck of a lot on the journey and my personal belief us that building spaces you end up occupying is a very empowering way to spend time. I think that's especially true for men and have no idea why
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Re: Log cabin kit or self build?

Postby PearlJammer » 06 Oct 2015, 21:44

Well ive really gone off the idea of a log cabin kit. I do need it 5m wide...will that be a massive problem? Now I have so many questions...where do I start, best place for materials, what materials? Flat /pitched roof, I do have a rough plan ie size and how far I want to go which is making it a good living space for all year round use. Would anyone be able to point me in the right direction for a starting point.
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Re: Log cabin kit or self build?

Postby Rob » 06 Oct 2015, 21:53

Recommend you search on Mike G's posts. Start at the beginning which is obviously the stage you're at. Mike's an architect so if you follow the ideology behind his plans (which are published here) it will give you the principles you need to keep the building safe, watertight and warm including diagrams of the materials and structure. Further Wizard9999 and Dan's threads are also specifically shed/workshop builds which also have benefitted from the advice given freely on this forum. These are all valuable resources that take the novice builder step by step through the building decision making processes. You would do well to stick the coffee pot on, give yourself an uninterrupted 2 hours and make copious detailed notes while reading them. Everything you need is in those threads to start you off :-)

The forum will support you all the way of course :-)
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Re: Log cabin kit or self build?

Postby TrimTheKing » 06 Oct 2015, 22:57

By support he obviously means we will give you all the support you need, while egging you on to go bigger and better all the way! :twisted: :eusa-whistle:

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Re: Log cabin kit or self build?

Postby Rod » 06 Oct 2015, 23:25

Your location might help and have you investigated if you need Planning?

Oh and welcome

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Re: Log cabin kit or self build?

Postby Dan0741 » 06 Oct 2015, 23:43

Welcome Lee. You sound very much as I did a few months ago, it can be daunting at times. I would echo the guidance already provided re perusal of others posts. I have been end to end on a few, and it's only when you are actually completing that part you realise how detailed and instructive the posts are. It took me more than a couple of hours though!

I think you need to consider the very basics to start with; use, type of construction, utilities, drainage, planning permissions etc first as thus will all guide your thinking re the build. I researched all this online, and came up with many of the answers myself. There are some things that are so darn obvious no one explains them, I say obvious, but these are sometimes the bits that to a beginner like me aren't obvious at all? This is where the forum helps.

I haven't found anything particularly difficult about my build yet, except perhaps arranging the roof, but that's all about experience, the next time won't be half as tough. I think it's about knowing what you want, why and how that can be achieved. Nearly all of this can be found by talking to others and research.

I would urge you strongly to formulate your ideas first before you put a spade in the ground. I know this makes me sound like a fruit loop but I have spent considerable time just thinking about things and eventually things become clear in ones mind. The roof is an example. Your 5x5 plan limits your options when it comes to roof design and build. Mine is roughly 3.5 x 6.5 and this is a straightforward shape to achieve a decent pitched roof. Given its my first one I had ideas about hipped rooves and all sorts but didn't want to bite off more than I could chew.

Try to make life easy for yourself if you can! Think it through and come up with some ideas that you can post on here. Believe me some kindly soul will set you straight! :D

Best of luck,

Dan
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Re: Log cabin kit or self build?

Postby PearlJammer » 07 Oct 2015, 00:03

This is all very encouraging thanks. I live in Eastbourne. Any rough figures for cost and time, I think I can spend 15-20 hrs a week on it weather permitting.

Thanks

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Re: Log cabin kit or self build?

Postby Dan0741 » 07 Oct 2015, 00:15

Build costs and time are both dependent on what you are going to do. I have been surprised how cheap it all is. The only extortionate costs are working below ground surface, and wages for people who you get in to do work for you. I got hit with a double whammy as I got a digger fella in to do my groundworks! But that was a known when I started the build. If you read Mike G's Workshop post you will see a swift timescale, mine is slower, but I'm enjoying it hugely. I built my frame and erected it in a week, but that isn't by any means the whole story....
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Re: Log cabin kit or self build?

Postby Wizard9999 » 07 Oct 2015, 00:34

PearlJammer wrote:This is all very encouraging thanks. I live in Eastbourne. Any rough figures for cost and time, I think I can spend 15-20 hrs a week on it weather permitting.

Thanks

Lee


Lee

Can't help on cost really, I have very deliberately not totalled it up, that way SWMBO can't extract the information ;) .

Time and cost are often a trade off, as in so many case in life, but the specifics of your build can also be a factor. For example, if you can I would say the money spent on hiring a digger to excavate is money very well spent. I dug mine by hand as my workshop is very, very close to two mature oaks so the ground was full of roots, I am not exaggerating when I say it took me months to dig it. But I did get concrete delivered for the slab, hiring a mixer would have taken for ever and the slab would not have been as good as it would have been laid sections.

I have to say Dan is doing a grand job and cracking along at a pretty decent pace, despite what he will modestly tell you. So look at is thread and the timeline should give you a decent idea of what can be achieved in what time.

Dan is also right, be really clear on what you want / need before starting. Two examples, 5x6m you are getting dangerously close to needing building regulations consent, I would suggest not hitting 30m2 and triggering this unless you really need that extra bit of space. Can't comment on planning until we know how close to the boundary you will be and you have decided on height. You have mentioned flat versus pitched rooves, the latter is in my view much more attractive, but I am pretty certain the former is easier to build. Also, if you are very close to the boundary the height of the building could drive a need for planning, which may be another reason to go for a flat roof. But then again, a flat roof on a 2.5m high building may be restrictive, depending what you want to do in the space and the extra height a pitched roof gives could be key. So horses for courses really.

Anyway, this dialogue means the journey has started.

Terry.
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Re: Log cabin kit or self build?

Postby PearlJammer » 07 Oct 2015, 07:53

Boundaries are very tight, don't know how much of a problem that will be? Really just enough how room to maintain working on a 5m wide plan.As for overall size I was hoping to be able to fit a pool table in there with enough room to cue properly. There's probably not going to be a lot of standing in there so lower roof wouldn't be a problem.ill post a pic of the site if it stops raining today, but it's just a patio with a good foundation.
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Re: Log cabin kit or self build?

Postby Wizard9999 » 07 Oct 2015, 09:13

PearlJammer wrote:Boundaries are very tight, don't know how much of a problem that will be? Really just enough how room to maintain working on a 5m wide plan.As for overall size I was hoping to be able to fit a pool table in there with enough room to cue properly. There's probably not going to be a lot of standing in there so lower roof wouldn't be a problem.ill post a pic of the site if it stops raining today, but it's just a patio with a good foundation.

If you are within 1m of the boundary anything over 15m2 will need building regulations approval unless it is fire resistant. You will also need planning permission if you are going above 2.5m in height. You will therefore need to think hard about design and construction, but as a first step if you have not done so already you should read this so you know what you need to take into account...

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permis ... buildings/

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Re: Log cabin kit or self build?

Postby tracerman » 07 Oct 2015, 09:32

Pearljammer - my suggestion is go for 6m x 3m , get a kettle , and Radio 4 , get some decent woodworking gear and forget the pool table , which you will lose interest in anyway because the woodworking will take over your life .

Good luck with the project anyway .

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Re: Log cabin kit or self build?

Postby 9fingers » 07 Oct 2015, 09:38

tracerman wrote:Pearljammer - my suggestion is go for 6m x 3m , get a kettle , and Radio 4 , get some decent woodworking gear and forget the pool table , which you will lose interest in anyway because the woodworking will take over your life .

Good luck with the project anyway .

Steve


A plywood or melamine coated sheet over the pool table would make a great outfeed for a table saw and double as an assembly table too.

Bob

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Re: Log cabin kit or self build?

Postby StevieB » 07 Oct 2015, 09:41

Do you just want a pool table and associated stuff (beer fridge, juke box etc) or is this going to be a workshop come other use space as well? 5 x 5 would seem to be a bit big for a pool table:

https://www.libertygames.co.uk/faq/answ ... ble-sizes/

I have a 7 ft table in my workshop/annex and it certainly doesn't sit in a 5 x 5m space. 5 x 4m is probably what I manage with, although you could go smaller still with a 6ft table.

I am going to offer the advice of buying a log cabin based on the info you have provided. While Mike is right in that they are not perfect, They are also very easy to put up and you do sound a bit unsure of some aspects of the build process if designing from scratch. You can get them insulated, and with double glazing, as well as lined. Aesthetically I doubt they will go out of fashion as quickly as Mike feels, but that is personal opinion! They are far less likely to rot than a standard garden shed made from shiplap and the size you are wanting will prove problematic from a roof perspective as already mentioned - you cannot span that size with a flat roof unless you introduce steels, and anything pitched is going to be need to be high to accommodate your proposed width.

I have built workshops previously and also log cabins (see pics below). The former gives you exactly what you want but with time and effort, with the latter you know exactly what you are getting and it is a doddle to build (although 5 x 5m will likely be a 2 man job) - should take only 2 days for the entire basic structure to be up. I would recommend upgrading to EPDM for the roof however rather than felt or shingles. You will be surprised how much expense building your own can be - far more expensive than a standard shed of the same size, but with a greater life span.

As for a base - I put my cabin (used as a shed, but with a longer life span than a standard shed) on a raised concrete base. The cabin then sits on treated bearers rather than a brick plinth since they came with the cabin. It is a good idea to raise the base of the cabin above ground if possible to allow surface water to drain away. If not a French drain or gravel 'trench' is an alternative. My cabin came from Dunster house - seems OK but delivery man just dumped the lot and ran, so make sure you have space to sort out the bits you want first rather than unloading into the build area then having to shift everything twice. Mine was small and cheap (end of line sale, 2.5 x 4m) but for a shed its great - stayed dry and intact. I wouldn't want to work in it as an office (although mine is not insulated, just 28mm walls) but for occasional use I would think it would be fine to house a pool table with an electric fan heater or such.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Don't seem to have a photo of it with the EPDM roof on, but this was erected approx 18 months ago so if you want one let me know and I can take one over the weekend (I don't get home from work until its dark!)

Edit: you can just see the roof through the window in this shot, although not very clearly!

Image

Steve
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Re: Log cabin kit or self build?

Postby PearlJammer » 07 Oct 2015, 09:49

tracerman wrote:Pearljammer - my suggestion is go for 6m x 3m , get a kettle , and Radio 4 , get some decent woodworking gear and forget the pool table , which you will lose interest in anyway because the woodworking will take over your life .

Good luck with the project anyway .

Steve

I do love radio 4 already :D
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Re: Log cabin kit or self build?

Postby PearlJammer » 07 Oct 2015, 10:17

Well I'm confused again.time is kind of an issue as I wanted it done before Xmas as I have been waiting a long time to get the go ahead and actually have the money to do it, if I wait too long I'm sure my wife will find something else to spend in on :-) Main use will be entertaining so need room for seating, TV/music and bar( which I will definitely be attempting to build myself, hopefully with help from this forum)
Are these cabin kits really that bad? If I insulate/plasterboard and paint it right as well as doing a proper job on the roof, waterproof and protect outer wall. My major concern would be damp getting in through any movement in the wood.

Steve, how is yours holding up after 18 months and how much life do you think they really have in them

Thanks

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Re: Log cabin kit or self build?

Postby StevieB » 07 Oct 2015, 10:31

Absolutely fine - no issues at all. In my experience a normal shed has 3-5 years in it, mainly due to either the roofing felt leaking or the base rotting. For the cabin, the EPDM has a lifespan of 25-50 years (depending on which website you read) and it is on a raised base so shouldn't rot from the bottom. A normal shed has 8mm cladding, this is 28mm solid pine. Bigger cabins use thicker timbers - up to 44mm I believe. I am hoping for 15 years minimum. The cabin cost 3 times the price of an equivalent shed but will last at least 5 times as long, more with proper care.

I would point out however, that the instructions on these cabins recommend you allow them to flex/move, so if you plasterboard by screwing to the walls (rather than having a box within a box structure) you will likely get cracking of the plaster.

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