It is currently 29 Mar 2024, 02:21

Framed Side Gate

This is where we don't want anything but evidence of your finest wood butchering in all its glorious, and photograph laden glory. Bring your finished products or WIP's, we love them all, so long as there's pictures, and plenty of 'em!

Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby meccarroll » 12 Jun 2016, 11:28

Andyp wrote:Liking the trefoil. Only ever done a couple myslef but found that they benefit from a quick pass with a round over bit to soften the edges.


I did not miss that one Andy but glad you mentioned it.

Mark
meccarroll
Sapling
 
Posts: 423
Joined: 12 May 2016, 10:45
Name:

Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby 9fingers » 12 Jun 2016, 11:35

I like that adjustable block. I must lookout for one of those in the bazaars.
I can't quite get my head around whether it can do everything a tilting spindle will do or not. Currently guessing that it wont but I'll not be shelling out for a tilting spindle any time soon.
I don't do a lot of spindle work but it is a useful tool for some jobs that the router table struggles with.

Great write-up and good food for thought. Thanks

Bob
Information on induction motors here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dBTVXx ... sp=sharing
Email:motors@minchin.org.uk
User avatar
9fingers
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 10038
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 20:22
Location: Romsey Hampshire between Southampton and the New Forest
Name: Bob

Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby RogerS » 12 Jun 2016, 12:14

9fingers wrote:.....
I can't quite get my head around whether it can do everything a tilting spindle will do or not. Currently guessing that it wont .....

Bob


You're quite correct in saying that it won't. Mark's adjustable cutter block is great for straight angles but sometimes when you have a large moulding to make and the maximum size of the cutter that your block will take isn't large enough then by tilting the spindle you can squeeze that bit extra out and/or with a clever bit of jiggery-pokery on the part of the cutter maker, use just the one cutter to give yourself a complex moulding with two passes, different parts of the cutter and a tilting spindle.

Hope that makes sense.

I have the larger Kity with sliding table and that has a tilting spindle. I also modified the electrics so that I can run the cutter in either direction which increases the versatility by letting you orient the stock to make it easier to support the material as it passes the cutter.
If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door.
User avatar
RogerS
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 13291
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Nearly finished. OK OK...call me Pinocchio.
Name:

Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby meccarroll » 12 Jun 2016, 12:16

With mortices cut, next is marking the spindles to length.
Image

I'm going to use a core box bit to add a bit of ornamentation the the edges of the spindles and I want this to line in with the curve of the top rail so I just lay it over the spindles and mark the line of the top rail onto them.

Image

Spindls marked and ready.
Image

Before I machine I make a test run in a piece of scrap. I can then use this to set up marks on my router table for start and finish points on the spindles.
Image




Using the scrap piece of oak I set the router cutter from behind so it is just at the start of the cut.
Image

I then attach a board to the router fence so I can transfer the line from the scrap to the router fence.
(Rear view of router fence)
Image

Front view of fence showing scrap wood.

Image

I use the same procedure for setting the end of the cut and mark this on my router fence.

Image

Well that's all the edges of the spindles done.
Image

Next clean up that trefoil a bit with a small chamfer, done with a router and 45 deg cutter.
Image

Image

I don't know if I'm being over cautious here but I stop every cut just before the router cutter hits the tip. I do this until all of the circles have been cut then I finish of routing the tips (I'm trying to avoid breakout at the tip). I don't have a photo of the finished trefoil up close but it's shown on the finished gate.
Image

Tea again
Last edited by meccarroll on 24 Sep 2016, 09:14, edited 4 times in total.
meccarroll
Sapling
 
Posts: 423
Joined: 12 May 2016, 10:45
Name:

Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby meccarroll » 12 Jun 2016, 12:37

RogerS wrote:
9fingers wrote:.....
I can't quite get my head around whether it can do everything a tilting spindle will do or not. Currently guessing that it wont .....

Bob


You're quite correct in saying that it won't. Mark's adjustable cutter block is great for straight angles but sometimes when you have a large moulding to make and the maximum size of the cutter that your block will take isn't large enough then by tilting the spindle you can squeeze that bit extra out and/or with a clever bit of jiggery-pokery on the part of the cutter maker, use just the one cutter to give yourself a complex moulding with two passes, different parts of the cutter and a tilting spindle.

Hope that makes sense.

I have the larger Kity with sliding table and that has a tilting spindle. I also modified the electrics so that I can run the cutter in either direction which increases the versatility by letting you orient the stock to make it easier to support the material as it passes the cutter.


That's interesting, the bit about making clever mouldings using the tilt on the spindle moulder. I have one of the larger Kity spindles too (need to get rid of one for some space). I got it because of the tilt feature but so far not used it. I have been looking at my cramped working space and was thinking about selling it. Now you have me thinking that I may need to keep it. :eusa-doh: I'll never have the space I need.

Mark
meccarroll
Sapling
 
Posts: 423
Joined: 12 May 2016, 10:45
Name:

Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby Pinch » 12 Jun 2016, 13:06

NIce work Mark and great WIP report. 8-)
In my previous life, I was a tree.
User avatar
Pinch
Old Oak
 
Posts: 2808
Joined: 22 Jul 2014, 21:59
Location: Shropshire.
Name: Paul

Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby Phil » 12 Jun 2016, 13:17

Pinch wrote:NIce work Mark and great WIP report. 8-)




:text-+1:

Cheers
Phil
We don't stop woodworking because we grow old, we grow old because we stop woodworking!

https://www.instagram.com/phil_pretoria/
User avatar
Phil
Old Oak
 
Posts: 3499
Joined: 23 Jul 2014, 05:11
Location: Southern Africa 0054
Name: Phil

Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby meccarroll » 12 Jun 2016, 13:29

Pinch wrote:NIce work Mark and great WIP report. 8-)


Cheers, thank you Pinch. I don't think it's up to your standard of quality and workmanship but at least I try.

Mark
meccarroll
Sapling
 
Posts: 423
Joined: 12 May 2016, 10:45
Name:

Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby Tusses » 12 Jun 2016, 13:58

from a CNC perspective .. If I was worried about tearout, I'd do the trefoil the reverse order .. after marking or piloting the large holes (if double sided), the V bit 1st , using a template (if I was without the CNC) .. then drill the large holes.

Obviously with the CNC it's a "hole" lot easier than that :-)
Tusses
Old Oak
 
Posts: 1300
Joined: 08 May 2016, 10:48
Location: in the middle of the middle
Name:

Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby meccarroll » 12 Jun 2016, 14:12

A little bit of final adjustment to the mortices on the top curve.

Image

next I wanted to put a groove in the stiles and intermediate top rail to receive the match boarding so I set a wobble saw to cut just above one of the rails. I made a few test cuts for width. And tried these in a piece of scrap.

Image


Image

I spun the blade until It just touched the rail then backed off very slightly to the correct height.

Tea :D

Image

Intermediate rail receiving the groove on the spindle moulder.
Image

Image

When it came grooving the stiles I had to slide the stiles onto the cutter to avoid growing the open top section where the curve is. I did this by stoping the groove in the mortice area of the intermediate rail.

Feeding the stile under the shaw guard onto the cutter. Looking at this picture, It might have been done better with a jig for safety, but I felt ok doing it this way.
Image

Stopping the groove before it reached the open top section.

Image

Image

With the groove cut I could glue the door framing together and fit the match boarding. I first sanded the inner edges as I would find this more difficult once the door was assembled.

Image

A brush was used to apply the pva glue to the joints.
Image
Last edited by meccarroll on 24 Sep 2016, 09:33, edited 2 times in total.
meccarroll
Sapling
 
Posts: 423
Joined: 12 May 2016, 10:45
Name:

Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby 9fingers » 12 Jun 2016, 14:15

Returning to the trefoils for a moment.....

I'd consider it a forlorn hope that those sharp edges will survive outside for long and so using non CNC methods, would cut the three holes, round over the three intersections to say 10 to 20% of the radius of the main holes and then round over with the router to the same 10-20% radius.

Bob
Information on induction motors here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dBTVXx ... sp=sharing
Email:motors@minchin.org.uk
User avatar
9fingers
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 10038
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 20:22
Location: Romsey Hampshire between Southampton and the New Forest
Name: Bob

Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby meccarroll » 12 Jun 2016, 14:32

9fingers wrote:Returning to the trefoils for a moment.....

I'd consider it a forlorn hope that those sharp edges will survive outside for long and so using non CNC methods, would cut the three holes, round over the three intersections to say 10 to 20% of the radius of the main holes and then round over with the router to the same 10-20% radius.

Bob


You might have a point there Bob but if you did that you would loose the intended shape to some extent. I did something similar before and was asked to repeat it on this gate. The oak is just over 1/2" thick and the intersections were taken down a bit from that rather sharp point. I'm not too concerned about it but I guess time will tell.

Mark
meccarroll
Sapling
 
Posts: 423
Joined: 12 May 2016, 10:45
Name:

Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby meccarroll » 12 Jun 2016, 15:19

First part I gluing up was the top rails with spindles and the centre section. I had to put these together before I could fit the stiles.

Image

Next i put the stiles in place and applied the glue. It was quite a warm day when I put this lot together and I had to work quickly as the glue was going off.
Image

The gate was cramped and wedged together. I used dowls to hold the tenons in the centre mullion as this part could not be wedged. I used tape on a drill bit as a depth gauge and inserted the dowls from the inside so they did not show through on the rail on the back of the gate.

Image



Image

A bit of cleaning up on the bench before I put a chamfer on the gate where the boards meet the edge

Image

Running the chamfer using a router with blabbering guide and 45 deg cutter.

Image


Still have a few more pics to upload but I think I'll call it a day for now but please leave any comments or suggestions, there is always room for improvement.

Mark
Last edited by meccarroll on 24 Sep 2016, 09:41, edited 1 time in total.
meccarroll
Sapling
 
Posts: 423
Joined: 12 May 2016, 10:45
Name:

Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby Tusses » 12 Jun 2016, 15:24

I've looked a couple of times now Marc .. I can't see a reason to use the spindle to do the bevel on the horizontals ?
wouldn't it be easier on the TS ? or even the planer ?

of do you just prefer the spindle ?



Rich
Tusses
Old Oak
 
Posts: 1300
Joined: 08 May 2016, 10:48
Location: in the middle of the middle
Name:

Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby meccarroll » 12 Jun 2016, 16:05

Tusses wrote:I've looked a couple of times now Marc .. I can't see a reason to use the spindle to do the bevel on the horizontals ?
wouldn't it be easier on the TS ? or even the planer ?

of do you just prefer the spindle ?



Rich


Rich, you are right the planer would be quicker (tilt the guide fence, push timber through and job done), Cheers. TS v Spindle moulder........spindle moulder every time (for me at least).

I've been working on site for quite some time now and am just getting back into machining. I'm sure the way I work could be improved so thank you for the comment.

Mark
meccarroll
Sapling
 
Posts: 423
Joined: 12 May 2016, 10:45
Name:

Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby Tusses » 12 Jun 2016, 16:26

it was more couriosity than anything ! lol

as I said .. I haven't set my spindle up yet .... just need to make some (more) space :eusa-think:
Tusses
Old Oak
 
Posts: 1300
Joined: 08 May 2016, 10:48
Location: in the middle of the middle
Name:

Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby meccarroll » 12 Jun 2016, 22:51

Edges chamfered, I did just nip out the corners after with a chisel to give a sharper look but could easily have left them as in the picture.

Image

I cut the match boarding to 45 degrees on my radial arm saw using a homemade jig made from some scraps of ply and offcuts of wood.

Image

The board was then set central on the gate and marked to length.
Image


I used a scrap of wood cut to 45 deg as a length stop and cut the board to length allowing enough for a rebated tung to fit on the end.
Image

Image

The tung was put on the end of the board by adjusting the height of the saw blade and running it past the board a couple of times to give the correct width.

Image

With the boards cut to length they were fit in place.

Image

Corners fit.

Image

I made a simple jig to run the matching over the router table and put a 45 chamfer on the end of the boards that abuts the stiles and top rail.

Image

Image

Boards fit and chamfered. The smaller boards were chamfered by hand using a block plane as I felt they were too small to put over the router.

Image

I nailed the boards in place then, using a jigsaw, I cut the horns off the stiles to match the curved top rail.

Image

Image

A bit of sanding and the result.

Image

Image

A couple of pictures of the gate being liberally dosed in wood preservative.

Image

Image

And just a couple of pictures of the gate before the nail holes were filed and the gate treated.
Front
Image

Back

Image

Thank you for viewing my post.

Mark
Last edited by meccarroll on 24 Sep 2016, 10:11, edited 1 time in total.
meccarroll
Sapling
 
Posts: 423
Joined: 12 May 2016, 10:45
Name:

Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby Rod » 13 Jun 2016, 04:26

Very nice work
Thanks for showing all the details.

Rod
User avatar
Rod
Old Oak
 
Posts: 4471
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:34
Location: Winchester, Hampshire
Name:

Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby RogerS » 13 Jun 2016, 06:33

Tusses wrote:I've looked a couple of times now Marc .. I can't see a reason to use the spindle to do the bevel on the horizontals ?
wouldn't it be easier on the TS ? or even the planer ?

of do you just prefer the spindle ?
Rich


In my experience, trying to cut a consistent bevel down a longish length of timber using either the planer or TS results in the bevel tapering towards the end.

On the TS it depends on which side of the blade the stock runs. IF the straight edge runs by the fence then not so much a problem but sometimes you have to cut the taper using the waste as your reference against the fence and that causes problems.

On the planer, you are at the mercy of maintaining a constant and consistent pressure as you feed the stock through.

None of those problems using the spindle - especially if you use a false fence. A power feed also helps!
If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door.
User avatar
RogerS
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 13291
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Nearly finished. OK OK...call me Pinocchio.
Name:

Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby Andyp » 13 Jun 2016, 08:15

It is a lovely gate Mark and an excellent WIP. Thank you.

Did you ever consider making the top rail fit over the stiles thereby reducing the worst of the end grain exposure to the elements? I have only ever made one gate and have been pondering why ever since that it is the norm for the end grain surfaces of the stiles to be exposed horizontally where eventual natural drying of the timber will leave them more exposed to water. If the rail was fitted on top of the stiles the only exposed end grain is vertical where water can run off.
I do not think therefore I do not am.

cheers
Andy
User avatar
Andyp
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 11718
Joined: 22 Jul 2014, 07:05
Location: 14860 Normandy, France
Name: Andy

Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby meccarroll » 13 Jun 2016, 14:40

Andyp wrote:It is a lovely gate Mark and an excellent WIP. Thank you.

Did you ever consider making the top rail fit over the stiles thereby reducing the worst of the end grain exposure to the elements? I have only ever made one gate and have been pondering why ever since that it is the norm for the end grain surfaces of the stiles to be exposed horizontally where eventual natural drying of the timber will leave them more exposed to water. If the rail was fitted on top of the stiles the only exposed end grain is vertical where water can run off.


In short no, it's similar to how I have made lots of external joinery in the past that have been fine. I made a pair of side gates and a single side gate with curved tops similar to this one, 6 years ago, they still look fine.

I made a few park benches all the rear legs had exposed end grain (just about every park bench is made like that) and they are all fine, one is 30 years old and no detriment to the end grain at all. NB all of the end grain has a slight gradient to allow water to run off.

The key factors are: clean the end grain so it is smooth no rough surfaces. Treat with a quality clear wood preservative (saturate the end grain, again and again) then when dry apply a quality wood stain (spirit based) don't ever use water based stains I don't know one that I use if it was free. Maintain every three to four years and you should never have a problem :elsa-dance:

Hear is a picture of the end grain on the top of a rear leg of a bench I made over 30 years ago. It's absolutely solid and has no rot in it at all but it does look like I need to take a bit of my own advice and coat it up as I think it was last done about 5 or six years ago :oops:
Image

Image

30 years on, has not always received the care it should but still in fairly good shape.

Mark
meccarroll
Sapling
 
Posts: 423
Joined: 12 May 2016, 10:45
Name:

Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby Andyp » 13 Jun 2016, 15:48

fair enough Mark, you have made more than me. Here is a shot of why I choose to do it the other way around.

http://thewoodhaven2.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=205&p=1325&hilit=gate#p1325

The gate we inherited with the house of unidentified red hardwood.
I do not think therefore I do not am.

cheers
Andy
User avatar
Andyp
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 11718
Joined: 22 Jul 2014, 07:05
Location: 14860 Normandy, France
Name: Andy

Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby meccarroll » 14 Jun 2016, 05:22

Andyp wrote:fair enough Mark, you have made more than me. Here is a shot of why I choose to do it the other way around.

http://thewoodhaven2.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=205&p=1325&hilit=gate#p1325

The gate we inherited with the house of unidentified red hardwood.


Hi Andy, as you posted the link to your gate project I thought I'd reply in your thread rather then here. Maybe put a cross link to this thread, so people can compare designs thoughts etc.

Mark
meccarroll
Sapling
 
Posts: 423
Joined: 12 May 2016, 10:45
Name:

Previous

Return to Projects & WIP

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests