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Framed Side Gate

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Framed Side Gate

Postby meccarroll » 02 Jun 2016, 09:10

Hi all have not posted anything I've made on here before so thought I'd share this. It's not what I'd call a project but at least something to share. Don't know if the picture of the cad drawing is much good but it's the best I could manage in Turbocad.

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It's a framed side gate with curved top, open view panel under curve and some slatted boarding.

Picked up the timber for the frame yesterday here it is in the raw:
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I cut the wide boards through the middle and left them overnight to allow for movement (sometimes occurs when a wide board is cut down the middle)
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Surfacing the timber
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And thicknessing

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I had an old pile of odd sized T+G Matching Board that I wanted to use up somewhere so decided to cut it down and and re-machine it so I could use it as boarding in the gate.

Cutting the old boarding to size on the bench saw before machining.

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Once sawn I put re-sized the boards on the planer thicknesses then set about machining the profile again. To put the curve on I used a panel block on the spindle moulder.

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Next I used a rebate block to cut the tongue
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Then the groove for which I used a wobble saw
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I used scraps of wood to test the fit between the tongue and groove before pushing all the boards through the spindle.
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The final fit
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Well apart from planing the main framing, that is as far as I managed to get yesterday.

Today I'll be working on the mortice and tenons and machining the curved top. I'll have to make a template first so I can use this as a guide for when I machine the curve on the top rail I also need to set out the gate on a rod so I can mark out the shoulders and mortice positions. I think I need to get on as there is a bit to do,I'll try to update later.

Mark
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Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby Robert » 02 Jun 2016, 09:20

Don't think I've seen anyone make their own tongue and groove cladding before. No room for one but it makes me want a spindle moulder :)

look froward to seeing this progress.
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Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby Andyp » 02 Jun 2016, 09:23

Thanks for sharing Mark. Nothing wrong with turbocad, certainly a step up from fagpacket 1 which I use :D
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Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby Rod » 02 Jun 2016, 09:56

Interesting stuff.
From the sketch - is there a bottom rail?

Rod
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Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby DaveL » 02 Jun 2016, 10:37

Robert wrote:Don't think I've seen anyone make their own tongue and groove cladding before. No room for one but it makes me want a spindle moulder :)

look froward to seeing this progress.

+1
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Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby StevieB » 02 Jun 2016, 19:47

Interested to see you cut a thin strip on the fence side of your table saw - I always do it the other way round and have the larger piece between fence and blade. Now I am wondering if I am dangerous or there is not really any difference! Reason I do it my way is I find it is easier to hold the large piece on the fence and keep it straight - the other way I find that at the end of the cut the large piece can move too easily and catch the back of the blade.

+1 on making me want a spindle!

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Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby RogerS » 02 Jun 2016, 20:15

By all means get a spindle moulder, chaps.....


...but after you've had some training ;)

Remember the old adage...

a router removes a finger

a spindle moulder, a hand.

Anyone wanting to see one in action are always welcome at my place.
If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door.
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Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby Reclaimer » 02 Jun 2016, 21:21

I too was intrigued to see someone making their own T/G, I shall be following this with interest.

It doesn't make me want a spindle moulder though, I'm enough of a liability with the tools I already have. :D
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Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby kirkpoore1 » 02 Jun 2016, 22:11

Another advantage that the spindle molder (shaper) has over a router is that you can stack cutters. For example, the two passes that made the tongue side of the panels could easily have been done on the same pass with the cutters stacked and, of course, a spacer in between. However, a firm hold on the wood (or a power feeder) would be even more essential in this case.

I'm also wondering whether there will be a bottom rail. If so, have you planned some way to keep water from pooling on the rail?

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Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby meccarroll » 04 Jun 2016, 09:35

A bit further on now but slow progress as I'm having to sharpen and change blades and de-clutter, haven't used my machinery for a long time.

To those that asked, "Yes there is a middle and bottom rail". The sketch is just a front view so I could get an impression of the proportions of the gate and ask approval from the person having it.

First thing I decided to do was make the curved top. So I marked out the width of the gate on a scrap of ply.

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I only had scraps of ply laying around so made do with half the width.

With the radius marked so the curves met I then used a router and fixed it to a board. I fixed a nail in the board where the centre of the radius is and set the edge of the router cutter to the outer edge of the curve.

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Once set up I router the top curve on the outer side of the line up to the intersection between the two curves. I used a block of wood screwed to to the ply base to stop the router at the point of intersection. The lower curve is cut on the reverse radius and on the inner side of the line.

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Next was to pin the template to the roughly shaped top rail and machine it to shape on the spindle using the template as a guild.

Router reversed for opposite radius.
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The finished template. You can may see why I used a stop block on the top cut, if I had not the router would have gone right through the template at the intersection.
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This template was only thin and half the width of the gate so I sat it on top of a thicker wider piece of ply and used a bearing guide to machine a full width template.
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Full width template
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I marked the top curved rail from the template and cut it slightly oversize on the bandsaw.
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Oversized top rail ready for machining.
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Next was to pin the template to the roughly shaped top rail and machine it to shape on the spindle using the template as a guild.

I used a spindle moulder for cutting top rail to shape. A rebate block was set in the spindle moulder and a ring fence set to guide the template.

Initial setting up.
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First I set the height of the cutter so it cut slightly above the timber but not too much that it ruined the template as the template was needed for the ring ring fence to run along.
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Next I set the cutter so it was in line with the ring fence.
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Fortunately on this occasion the cutter lined up nicely with the embossed mark on the ring fence but they don't always, hence the black markers on previous occasions.

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All set I fit the guarding to enclose the cutter as much as possible.
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Template pinned to the oversized top rail with hand holds each end.
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Top rail machined to match profile of template.
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Template removed
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Time for a cup of tea ;)

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Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby Rod » 04 Jun 2016, 09:57

Nice work and nice to see so much of the details and preparations.

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Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby meccarroll » 04 Jun 2016, 11:00

With the top rail cut and shaped I set about marking using my Rod (it's a sheet of ply marked out full size of the gate).

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Rails lay on the rod so I can pick up the marks directly from the rod.
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Position of tenons and haunches marked out with crayons so they are easily identified.
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Transferring the marks from the rod to timber.

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I used different colours for the haunch to the tenon to make it easy when machining.
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Setting the line for the mortice.


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Setting the mortice chisel.

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Luckily my morticed has a hunch stop that you can flip between full depth tenon and hunch. It will either drop through the hole for the full tenon depth or swing it to cover the hole for the hung depth. :)


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Not sure how long the mortices took but all done now.

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I set a mortice gauge to the width of the mortice and transferred this over to the rails to mark out the tenons.

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I used a multi tenon machine to cut the tenons.

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One of the rails was longer than needed so I could use this extra length to do test fits while setting up the tenon machine.
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I try to cut just on the shoulder line if I can.
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Final fit.

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For the straight rails I slid the tenon into the relative mortice and picked up the marks for the tenons directly.

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The top curved rail was a bit more tricky so I used the rod to pick these lines up.

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Time for another cup of tea :)

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Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby meccarroll » 04 Jun 2016, 11:47

Rod wrote:Nice work and nice to see so much of the details and preparations.

Rod


Cheers Rod, picture might be useful to someone and I might be given a few suggestions.

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Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby meccarroll » 04 Jun 2016, 12:01

RogerS wrote:By all means get a spindle moulder, chaps.....


...but after you've had some training ;)

Remember the old adage...

a router removes a finger

a spindle moulder, a hand.

Anyone wanting to see one in action are always welcome at my place.


This is a picture of the spindle I'm using at the moment. I had put it up for sale a couple of years back with all the bits for £350 but had no takers so ended up keeping it. I'm glad it didn't sell now as it's so easy to set up and use. It's a Kity 623 with 2hp motor. Very small footprint but it's size is deceiving as it's very capable indeed. For anyone with limited space I highly recommend one. I'm not trying to plug for a sale as it's now a keeper.
Image

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Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby meccarroll » 04 Jun 2016, 12:17

After marking the lines for the tenons I cut them to width using the bandsaw, which gave me the opportunity to cut the wedges for later.

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A dry test fit.

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I have a vertical centre rail yet to fit which will allow me to nail the mitred match board to. The match board edges will fit into a groove machined on the stiles and intermediate top rail.

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Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby Andyp » 04 Jun 2016, 12:21

Cracking WIP. Merci Beaucoup
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cheers
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Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby 9fingers » 04 Jun 2016, 12:59

I've got a little Kity spindle too. Not sure of the model no but it came off a CK26 combi machine.
I don't have a carriage :mrgreen: but it is still a useful machine. As well as the usual cutter blocks I have a good selection of semi lethal French cutters that I use with respect!

Looks a good solid gate. I like working from a rod too if i'm making anything with unusual features or angles involved. Sooo much easier.

I'm enjoying this WIP

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Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby Wizard9999 » 05 Jun 2016, 08:00

First class WIP :eusa-clap: . Enjoying this very much.

Terry.
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Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby RogerS » 05 Jun 2016, 08:30

Wizard9999 wrote:First class WIP :eusa-clap: . Enjoying this very much.

Terry.


I'll second that.

What was the size of the raw timber for that top arch?

I made an arch for our top gate - my first attempt at laminating and bending stuff to a former. My meanness for using very old Cascamite as they've all started to delaminate. Might well redo using your excellent guide, Mec.
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Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby TrimTheKing » 06 Jun 2016, 04:06

Thirded, a tremendous introductory WIP, well done that man!

Cheers
Mark
Cheers
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Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby meccarroll » 06 Jun 2016, 08:17

9fingers wrote:I've got a little Kity spindle too. Not sure of the model no but it came off a CK26 combi machine.
I don't have a carriage :mrgreen: but it is still a useful machine.
Bob


Kity woodworking machines are surprisingly capable for their size. If you can buy a sliding carriage or even make one, you will never regret it, they are a real asset to a spindle moulder.

RogerS What was the size of the raw timber for that top arch?


It is EX 225x50mm. It's more or less the maximum size I can obtain off the shelf in sawn softwood around where I live.

I had thought about doing the curved section with laminates (as you did with your gate) but as the curve was not too deep a single piece was used. I'm not sure if you sanded your laminates but I was told by my old college lecturer that planer blades can burnish the woods fibres hindering the absorption and bonding properties of the glue, so always sand the layers before gluing together. Not sure how much is true but I always sand before gluing wood together.

Cascamite is excellent but you could try this: http://gluesdirect.co.uk/catalog/produc ... ts_id=1138 it's a resorcinol glue highly water resistant. Often used in boat building and marine work.

Thank you for all the comments Chaps. I've taken a break from the gate to do other much needed things but will be uploading more pics of the final stages shortly.

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Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby meccarroll » 12 Jun 2016, 09:21

Finally got the time to post the final pics:

After doing an initial dry test fit I chamfered the horizontal rails to allow water to run off and fit the vertical middle rails (mullions).

Picture setting an adjustable block on the spindle using a sliding bevel to set.

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The block in the spindle moulder before it's enclosed.
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Pics of the bevel produced
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For the vertical middle rail I first put the tenons on by machine then cut the shoulders by good old fashioned tenon saw. They had to be cut on the splay to match the bevel on the middle and bottom rails and my tenon machine could not do this.

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Next I set out for the top spindles that fit in the top curved section of the gate.

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I'm using Oak for the spindles as I needed something durable. I have been told the spindles will be left to age unstained but treated with clear wood preservative.
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The centre spindle is wider to accommodate a Trefoil in the middle.

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This was drilled out using forester bit in a drill stand.

I did a test run first to see how things would go and found I needed to sharpen the bit before continuing.
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I think the bit I used was 35mm wide that meant the triangle used to align the centres of the Trefoil had to also sit in a 35mm circle. This was set out on the rod (sixth picture down from top) and transferred to the spindle before drilling.

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I'll post this so I don't loose it and come back after a cup of tea.
Last edited by meccarroll on 24 Sep 2016, 08:54, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby meccarroll » 12 Jun 2016, 10:41

With the spindles ready I lay them on my rod so I could obtain the correct widths for marking out my mortice positions on my top rails.

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Picking up the widths and Marking the top rail
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Even though I had my rod to mark from I still did a double check to ensure the mortice lines followed through correctly on the intermediate rail by cramping the frame together and using a set square.
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The mortices for the spindles were as wide as the actual spindles so no shoulders on these.

Setting the mortice depth to a pre determined mark. This is the intermediate top rail so setting the depth was fairly straight forward..
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After aligning the chisel we had what look like a nice fit.

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The top rail being curved presented a bit more of a problem. I had to make sure the mortices went in perpendicular to the intermediate rail but also at the right depth. No easy on a changing curve.

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To keep the mortices at the right angles to the intermediate rail (upright) I used a cradle to hold the curved rail in position. I pre marked vertical lines on both rail and cradle so I knew when my rail sat vertical in the morticer.

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Tea!
Last edited by meccarroll on 24 Sep 2016, 09:03, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby RogerS » 12 Jun 2016, 10:44

Brilliant WIP, Mark. Learning quite a few new ideas here, thanks. :eusa-clap:
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Re: Framed Side Gate

Postby Andyp » 12 Jun 2016, 10:55

Liking the trefoil. Only ever done a couple myslef but found that they benefit from a quick pass with a round over bit to soften the edges.
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