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"Universal box joint jig"

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Re: "Universal box joint jig"

Postby 9fingers » 05 Oct 2016, 22:56

Yup I get that Stu, I agree it will work and that it is elegant/novel but still to be convinced if it easier.

Might work better if the small piece of leg is superglued back onto the other leg to make a single item which is easier to handle.

Once I've made the jig, I'll try both methods out.

Bob
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Re: "Universal box joint jig"

Postby DaveL » 05 Oct 2016, 23:02

I have a dado stack and will be looking at this, once I see how it comes together, keep up the good work Bob.
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Re: "Universal box joint jig"

Postby stu » 06 Oct 2016, 06:15

Here's a link to a video of someone setting up a 'kerfmaker' (cool little tool) showing the principal in action for those unable to follow my rambling post!

https://youtu.be/eFpNxtiSaYY

Funny you should mention super glue as this guy glues the off cut back on.

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Re: "Universal box joint jig"

Postby stephen.wood125 » 06 Oct 2016, 14:51

Still watching this with complete interest.

:text-bravo:
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Re: "Universal box joint jig"

Postby 9fingers » 06 Oct 2016, 15:05

stu wrote:Here's a link to a video of someone setting up a 'kerfmaker' (cool little tool) showing the principal in action for those unable to follow my rambling post!

https://youtu.be/eFpNxtiSaYY

Funny you should mention super glue as this guy glues the off cut back on.

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That is a great little gadget Stu. On my round-2-it list for sure.

Bob
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Re: "Universal box joint jig"

Postby 9fingers » 06 Oct 2016, 17:41

Experiments with rivet nuts.

I've known of these wonderful thing for ages but never used them for real until just now.

They consist of a flanged bush with a a thread cut in but only in the lower half opposite the flange.
Hopefully you can see enough in these two photos.

Image

Image

These are M6 ones and the body is 9mm diameter and the flange is 12.5mm. The overall length is 15mm as supplied.

I want the top surface to be flush when fitted to I needed a 9mm though hole with a 12.5mm counterbore 1.5mm deep

like this ( ignore the other holes this is a piece of scrap aluminium of the right thickness)

Image

The bush is then inserted a bolt inserted to the full depth of the thread (important!!) and then with a thick washer and nut on the top face ( sorry no pic) the nut is tightened until it will go no more. The result is that the un-threaded portion has collapsed to fill the hole and form a neat swage on the back of the panel to rivet the bush in firmly. Takes less time to do than type this.

Final result looks like this from the back

Image

and from the front

Image

As a result of the compression. the bushes have shrunk from 15mm to 12mm just right for the design. Lucky or what!

I'll be using these on the adjustable parts of my jig.

Oh yes and I've bought some spares for you lot when you make your jigs :D

Nearly dinner time - snake and pigmy pie yummy!

Bob
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Re: "Universal box joint jig"

Postby Robert » 06 Oct 2016, 20:37

What size rivnuts are you using? edit. just seen M6 - I have those somewhere. Mine have a smaller top flange so don't need countersinking for most applications.

I've probably got a few hundred of each size in stock. we used to use them by the 5000 box bought direct from Avdel. I have a hand setting tool for M4 ones as well. the tool also corrugates the flange slightly to resist spinning. Spinning in the hole is their main failing if not set correctly or cross threaded. Once they spin they need drilling out.

The correct way to set them is insert the thread of the insert tool then the tool pulls the bolt like a pop rivet gun would. Winding them set with the bolt soon damages the threads - not that it matters for a few nuts.
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Re: "Universal box joint jig"

Postby meccarroll » 06 Oct 2016, 21:24

Getting drawn right into this post Bob, finding your description with pics very interesting please keep it up. It's a learning curve.

Mark
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Re: "Universal box joint jig"

Postby 9fingers » 06 Oct 2016, 22:01

Robert wrote:What size rivnuts are you using? edit. just seen M6 - I have those somewhere. Mine have a smaller top flange so don't need countersinking for most applications.

I've probably got a few hundred of each size in stock. we used to use them by the 5000 box bought direct from Avdel. I have a hand setting tool for M4 ones as well. the tool also corrugates the flange slightly to resist spinning. Spinning in the hole is their main failing if not set correctly or cross threaded. Once they spin they need drilling out.

The correct way to set them is insert the thread of the insert tool then the tool pulls the bolt like a pop rivet gun would. Winding them set with the bolt soon damages the threads - not that it matters for a few nuts.



I glossed over my fitting method. A nut is fitted to a long bolt, then a flat washer, then a thick steel bar. the bush it threaded on up to the back of the bar. the bush is fitted into the counterbored hole and the nut is turned to compress the bush until it is fully home. In this way the thread in the bush is not damaged in any way just the way the pop rivet type tool does it.
I bought a small bag of M6 alloy rivnuts on ebay for this job.
Bob
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Re: "Universal box joint jig"

Postby 9fingers » 06 Oct 2016, 22:15

meccarroll wrote:Getting drawn right into this post Bob, finding your description with pics very interesting please keep it up. It's a learning curve.

Mark


Glad you are finding it interesting Mark. I've got some more drawing to check and then work from for the guides. They will come from standard 1" x 3" x1/8" aluminium alloy.
Believe it or not most extruded aluminium products are still imperial and the extrusion dies used don't wear out and are still in use years later....

Bob
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Re: "Universal box joint jig"

Postby 9fingers » 07 Oct 2016, 17:36

Here we go with the next step. Making the guides.

This is what I'm going to make.

Image

Edit: Oops first drawing error. The stock is 76.2mm long (top of the upper Drawing but by the time the finger has been reduce to 2mm thick, this dimension becomes 75mm :oops:

Firstly cut a couple of pieces of angle 50mm long from 3" x 1" x 1/8" aluminium angle and rough out the guide fingers on the bandsaw.

Image

I did not take any photos of the machining steps but basically it involves cleaning up the sawn faces and then machining to drawing. The tricky parts are that extruded angle is very rarely spot on 90 degrees and so I used precision straightening techniques -belting it with a soft faced hammer :lol: to dress it to 90 degrees.
Also machining the fingers down to just less than 2mm thick needs to be done very carefully indeed, creeping up on the final size a little at a time. This ended up changing the stress in the angle and more adjustment to get back to 90 degrees.
I particularly want to try making 4mm pin box joints as I have a 4mm FTG blade but unless you really want to go this fine I'd suggest you limit your jigs to 1/4" pins and that means you can use the angle as supplied without all the f*rting about that had to do.

Having got everything machined, it was time to fit the rivnuts. Yesterday I did not show my method fully.

1. Take a piced of thick steel mine was 8mm and drill a 6mm hole near the end. take a long ish m6 bolt ( I used 50mm but it could have been 40mm) and thread on a nut and a washer. Pass through the 6mm hole in the steel bar and use the rivnut with the flange against the steel just tightened finger tight. make sure the end of the bolt protrudes slightly from the end of the rivnut like this.

Image

Offer up the rivnut end to the job and secure with a couple of clamps leaving room for a spanner to fit onto the nut. This ensure that the rivnut will be fitted square to the surface and lets you concentrate on the spanner and the degree of compression.

Image

and

Image

Tighten the nut whilst watching the the compression taking place and stop when the nut be comes harder to turn. This should be when there is a nice neat bulge all round the rivnut stem.

Image

Loosen the nut, withdraw the bolt and the job is done.

The end result, a pair of handed box joint guides viewed from each side.
Image

Image

Time for tea now - home made Fish & Chips mmm!

Bob
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Re: "Universal box joint jig"

Postby Andyp » 07 Oct 2016, 17:46

9fingers wrote:Time for tea now - home made Fish & Chips mmm!
Bob


I was enjoying this up until you wrote that. :D Now I am hungry. Please don't tell me you will wash it down with a nice bottled real ale.
cheers

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Re: "Universal box joint jig"

Postby 9fingers » 07 Oct 2016, 17:55

Andyp wrote:
9fingers wrote:Time for tea now - home made Fish & Chips mmm!
Bob


I was enjoying this up until you wrote that. :D Now I am hungry. Please don't tell me you will wash it down with a nice bottled real ale.



No you are quite safe. I almost never drink beer at home only the rare pint in a pub once every couple of weeks.
Traditionally F&C would be eaten with a mug of tea and bread and butter to make chip butties of course but we don't do that either. The only drink tonight will be from the perky copulator loaded with French coffee at about 8pm.

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Re: "Universal box joint jig"

Postby Robert » 07 Oct 2016, 17:56

No relevance at all to what you are doing but I found a picture of the tool we sold when we closed the business..

Image

Went for £725 in 2006 as I recall. Sets them precisely with a cycle time of about 5 seconds. Auto spin on and off and setting pull of course.

Your way works just as well of course. If you can hit straight they will set with a hammer blow too as I've done it at home. We never used alloy rivnuts or flange headed types only steel or stainless flush types.

Not sure I completely follow how your jig will work as I've never thought about box joints before. Watching with interest but if I did have a go it would be router table based I think.
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Re: "Universal box joint jig"

Postby 9fingers » 07 Oct 2016, 18:58

Robert wrote:Not sure I completely follow how your jig will work as I've never thought about box joints before. Watching with interest but if I did have a go it would be router table based I think.


Robert, could I suggest that you watch the youtube video that I linked to recently as that should give you the basics.

If you then read my description of the setting method, I hope it should be clear. If not please do say as it means I have not described it properly.
I don't have the equipment to do a video so I will not be doing a blow by blow account of its use as once set it is the same as the plethora of box joint jigs out there.

Bob
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Re: "Universal box joint jig"

Postby Robert » 07 Oct 2016, 22:44

I had watched it previously but hadn't made the connection with your jig and its brackets :oops:
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Re: "Universal box joint jig"

Postby 9fingers » 07 Oct 2016, 22:46

Robert wrote:I had watched it previously but hadn't made the connection with your jig and its brackets :oops:



OK so you are on track now and it makes sense?

Bob
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Re: "Universal box joint jig"

Postby Robert » 07 Oct 2016, 22:50

Yes.

Do you think your brackets will be strong enough? just thinking ali bends easy if you knock it...
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Re: "Universal box joint jig"

Postby 9fingers » 07 Oct 2016, 22:58

Robert wrote:Yes.

Do you think your brackets will be strong enough? just thinking ali bends easy if you knock it...


It is a concern. I would have used steel but for the interest here in making jigs. Most woodies are pretty metal phobic but at least aluminium can be worked using some versions of woodwork tools.

The blade guard should offer some protection and I don't think it will bend in use only in "abuse"

Bob
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Re: "Universal box joint jig"

Postby 9fingers » 08 Oct 2016, 15:21

A bit more progress today in between domestic jobs.

The vertical fence after the recess for the guides was been cut out. I've used phenolic resin coated birch ply which I like to use for most jigs and fixtures. I is by no means essential comparte to other quality plywood but I happen to have a near lifetimes supply of the stuff. Many 8' long strips 6" wide left over from a cancelled job years back.

Whilst everything was set up in the mill I engraved a line to represent the blade reference line from the original drawing. Might be useful and a doddle to do whilst i was at it.

Image

and from the other side (facing the operator)

Image

Note that the guides have had short M6 studs fitted and loctitied into the rivnuts. This is important as the rivnuts are aluminium and will wear rapidly with regular movement. fitting a steel stud into them permanently will mean all the loosening and tightening effort will be done with a steel nut on a steel stud and last much longer.

The next views are of the fence with the guides fitted from each side.

Image

Image

Nice large washers to spread the clamping load on the back.

Thats possibly all until next week as I'm otherwise engaged tomorrow.
To follow the trend - Homemade lasagne for dinner tonight washed down with some red wine
Bob
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Re: "Universal box joint jig"

Postby stu » 08 Oct 2016, 18:16

Looking good Bob.

Enjoy the lasagne!
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Re: "Universal box joint jig"

Postby 9fingers » 10 Oct 2016, 20:01

The next report:

If you are the nervous type look away now.

Image

Here is the dado head set up to just cut through the phenolic resin to allow the glue to take.

Here we have all the parts to be glued (apart form the runners) prepared.

Image

The two fence components, the two triangular braces to help maintain the fence parts at 90 degrees and the parts for the tunnel blade guard.

I planed up an ash offcut to be a smooth sliding fit in the table saw slots and then ripped it into strips. It made five and I only needed two but the rest are stashed away for any other jigs that might need them.

Here is is all glued up and in the clamps.
Underside view

Image

View from the tunnel guard end. This will be cut through when the jig first gets used.

Image

Might get to try it out tomorrow after going for my flu jab.

Bob
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Re: "Universal box joint jig"

Postby stu » 10 Oct 2016, 20:40

Nearly there. I have a couple on metres of dentil moulding i need running out so i might pop round to give it a test run! [WINKING FACE]

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Re: "Universal box joint jig"

Postby 9fingers » 10 Oct 2016, 21:08

stu wrote:Nearly there. I have a couple on metres of dentil moulding i need running out so i might pop round to give it a test run! [WINKING FACE]

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Due to the location of my saw, I can possibly on do just over a metre before I'd hit the wall :D

Curious that a tooth like moulding is known as "dentil" and yet things pertaining to teeth are "dental"??
One of the English language thread maybe.

Bob
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Re: "Universal box joint jig"

Postby stu » 10 Oct 2016, 21:14

I had to double check the spelling in case I'd made an error!

Looks like I'll have to do my moulding then.

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