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Just coping! (now fitted)

This is where we don't want anything but evidence of your finest wood butchering in all its glorious, and photograph laden glory. Bring your finished products or WIP's, we love them all, so long as there's pictures, and plenty of 'em!

Just coping! (now fitted)

Postby mailee » 08 Aug 2014, 19:28

Along with another commission I started work on some internal French doors in softwood this week. Having made a good start I soon found it was one of those jobs! :roll: You know the ones where you wish you had never started. :( Anyway putting on a brave face I got stuck in making the doors. The frame was easy and I had this ready in a couple of hours but the doors gave me a bit of head scratching. After making the stiles and rails it was time to make the glazing bars as it would be a ten panel glass door. I did think of just mitring each one into place but decided against this as the door may move over time and open the joints. So it was a case of having to cope each one and tennon them into place.....Gulp! After making the glazing bars on the router table I made a jig up out of some scrap mdf.
Image
I made a couple of them as I expected them to wear with the amount I had to cut. It took me most of this afternoon to cut them all but finally got them done. it wasn't too bad once I got into the swing of it.
Image
With a little bit of fettling the joints were not too bad considering the amount of hand work.
Image
By the end of the day I had one of the doors in a dry fit.
Image
There will be two side lights each side of the doors but these only have the horizontal glazing bars...luckily. :lol: I think I shall invest in some tooling for these in the future. :oops:
Last edited by mailee on 20 Aug 2014, 15:53, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Just coping!

Postby 9fingers » 08 Aug 2014, 20:14

Good to see innovative solutions to these niggling problems.

Only trouble with spindle tooling is it all seems do damned expensive and very task specific.

Cheers

Bob
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Re: Just coping!

Postby RogerS » 08 Aug 2014, 21:34

What sort of joint have you done where they cross? i can see the tenon is for the stiles but the middle crossover ?
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Re: Just coping!

Postby mailee » 08 Aug 2014, 22:22

Dare I say it Roger, Dominos. I thought this would be the easiest solution due to the lightweight construction of the centre joints.
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Re: Just coping!

Postby Peter Sefton » 09 Aug 2014, 07:03

When I have made these in the past I have left 6mm as a bar between the rebates and made a pair of 6x6mm tenons at just under 3mm long. This does add strength and gives good location for the bars.

If machining I would spindle mould scribe and mortice before rebating and moulding.

Can't say I have made any in the past five years' so my memory may be a little rusty.

Peter
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Re: Just coping!

Postby Coley » 09 Aug 2014, 13:29

I find with these the easiest way is to mitre the ends of the beads first using a sharp chisel and wooden mitre box guide. It takes seconds to slice the mitre but then definitely gives you the right profile for the coping saw to follow. I do the same as Peter, tenon the ends then push through the mould/rebate on the spindle. The long glazing bar is just tenoned for length between top and bottom rail then the horizontal bar positions just transferred onto the long one. The joy of doing it that way is it's 100% guaranteed your little tenons that go between each glazing bar will be the right length. Really satisfying having to put a sash clamp on top and bottom rail and watching the joints close up
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Re: Just coping!

Postby Peter Sefton » 09 Aug 2014, 14:56

Coley we must have been taught the same way, I also mitre the ends to form the profile to saw too if doing them by hand.
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Re: Just coping!

Postby 9fingers » 09 Aug 2014, 17:06

I know that this is a bit of a cheeky request but is there any chance next time one of you is doing this sort of task especially using classical methods that Peter and Simon refer to, that you could take some WIP photos and write it up as a tutorial for the forum.
I'm sure that it would be much appreciated and build into a useful resource for others to learn from.

TIA

Bob
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Re: Just coping!

Postby Coley » 09 Aug 2014, 18:51

Peter Sefton wrote:Coley we must have been taught the same way, I also mitre the ends to form the profile to saw too if doing them by hand.


Seems that way As an apprentice I always struggled with mitreing the ends to start with. One of the other joiners use to lend me his brass mitre template- being new to it, it always use to be returned with tiny nicks out of it I use to cringe when he'd offer it up to the table saw to re true it needless to say I was persuaded to make my own wooden one which was much easier on the chisels and meant he no longer had to keep making his shorter . For some reason I'd trim off the excess but then slightly lift the chisel and take a second pass- switching to a wider chisel (2inch butt now) completely eliminates the temptation to pinch off a bit more.

Peter out of curiosity what were you taught to do with stairs ? We were always taught to have two tongues on risers - obviously one on the top going into the underside of the nosing then another tongue going into the back of the treads. Straight flights this would work o.k (assembly wise) , but when it came to winders it made life a right royal pain in the backside trying to get the kites in. More often than not most of the bottom tongue had to be removed to physically get the two to go together ( especially where they wrapped around the newel post ) I remember making the first flight differently and some of the older guys shaking there heads in shame now it just seems logical to have a groove on the bottom of the riser and I've never gone back to the old way.

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Re: Just coping!

Postby Coley » 09 Aug 2014, 18:55

9fingers wrote:I know that this is a bit of a cheeky request but is there any chance next time one of you is doing this sort of task especially using classical methods that Peter and Simon refer to, that you could take some WIP photos and write it up as a tutorial for the forum.
I'm sure that it would be much appreciated and build into a useful resource for others to learn from.

TIA

Bob


Bob at the moment im in the middle of making 14 oak windows and doors so won't be starting any new jobs for a while but I quite like the idea of documenting the next job step by step. - should come in handy when I completely loose my marbles
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Re: Just coping!

Postby 9fingers » 09 Aug 2014, 19:25

OK that sounds good Simon. Obviously no hurry- as & when, but if over time we could get a few tutorials for things that are less than obvious as to which is the best method. Ideally avoiding Dominos as that process is outside the reach of many hobby woodies.

Thanks

Bob
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Re: Just coping!

Postby Peter Sefton » 10 Aug 2014, 09:09

9fingers wrote:I know that this is a bit of a cheeky request but is there any chance next time one of you is doing this sort of task especially using classical methods that Peter and Simon refer to, that you could take some WIP photos and write it up as a tutorial for the forum.
I'm sure that it would be much appreciated and build into a useful resource for others to learn from.

TIA

Bob


Bob
I can't see me doing any more of these windows in the near future. I made some when I first left college and worked for an small architectural joinery company in Bristol and then a few over the years when refurbishing my own properties as I renovated past homes.
As you probably understand running the furniture school and tool shop I don't get much chance to make many of my own projects from start to finish anymore.
I do try to post photos every day on my three face book pages showing the students WIP's as they cover a range of interesting projects.
I find it so easy to upload pics from my phone to FB without having all the resizing issues. Can this be done on The Haven?
Time is always my biggest issue Peter
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Re: Just coping!

Postby Coley » 10 Aug 2014, 09:16

If you take the photos with a smartphone you can upload them using tapatalk. When writing a thread just tap menu to 'insert image' then select image from camera album.
I do wonder what the catch is, or if tapatalk has a limit. I feel naughty doing it this way as if im cheating somehow but doing the 'upload to photobucket, then copying url etc' was a chore

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Re: Just coping!

Postby RogerS » 10 Aug 2014, 09:18

9fingers wrote:OK that sounds good Simon. Obviously no hurry- as & when, but if over time we could get a few tutorials for things that are less than obvious as to which is the best method. Ideally avoiding Dominos as that process is outside the reach of many hobby woodies.

Thanks

Bob


Bob, I can see where you are coming from re use of Domino's but if that is how someone makes stuff then I'd rather see that than nothing at all (because they have no wish to change their working practices) as there is bound to be lots of interesting stuff in the rest of the thread. For example, coping and scribing etc.

Let's face it, a Domino is nothing more than a loose tenon and how many details do we need on making tenons and mortices ! :)
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Re: Just coping!

Postby 9fingers » 10 Aug 2014, 10:26

Peter Sefton wrote:
9fingers wrote:I know that this is a bit of a cheeky request but is there any chance next time one of you is doing this sort of task especially using classical methods that Peter and Simon refer to, that you could take some WIP photos and write it up as a tutorial for the forum.
I'm sure that it would be much appreciated and build into a useful resource for others to learn from.

TIA

Bob


Bob
I can't see me doing any more of these windows in the near future. I made some when I first left college and worked for an small architectural joinery company in Bristol and then a few over the years when refurbishing my own properties as I renovated past homes.
As you probably understand running the furniture school and tool shop I don't get much chance to make many of my own projects from start to finish anymore.
I do try to post photos every day on my three face book pages showing the students WIP's as they cover a range of interesting projects.
I find it so easy to upload pics from my phone to FB without having all the resizing issues. Can this be done on The Haven?
Time is always my biggest issue Peter


I completely respect your time pressures Peter -it is good that you can make the posts that you do.

I'm not sure what the difficulty is with photo resizing. The Haven does not have a limit on photo size in fact I'm pretty certain Mark has incorporated a resizer when oversize image tagged photos are linked to.
If we can be of further help then maybe continue this aspect with a new another topic in the tech issues board.

Cheers

Bob
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Re: Just coping!

Postby RogerS » 10 Aug 2014, 10:30

Re photos...I think the term 'resizing' is probably a red-herring. I think the real issue is that FB lets you post photos directly to it. We made the decision not to allow that on TWH2 which means that one has to post photos to another platform such as photobox or Flickr. Have to confess, in retrospect, I find that 'stops' me from posting more photos.
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Re: Just coping!

Postby Peter Sefton » 10 Aug 2014, 17:31

Coley wrote:
Peter Sefton wrote:Coley we must have been taught the same way, I also mitre the ends to form the profile to saw too if doing them by hand.


Seems that way As an apprentice I always struggled with mitreing the ends to start with. One of the other joiners use to lend me his brass mitre template- being new to it, it always use to be returned with tiny nicks out of it I use to cringe when he'd offer it up to the table saw to re true it needless to say I was persuaded to make my own wooden one which was much easier on the chisels and meant he no longer had to keep making his shorter . For some reason I'd trim off the excess but then slightly lift the chisel and take a second pass- switching to a wider chisel (2inch butt now) completely eliminates the temptation to pinch off a bit more.

Peter out of curiosity what were you taught to do with stairs ? We were always taught to have two tongues on risers - obviously one on the top going into the underside of the nosing then another tongue going into the back of the treads. Straight flights this would work o.k (assembly wise) , but when it came to winders it made life a right royal pain in the backside trying to get the kites in. More often than not most of the bottom tongue had to be removed to physically get the two to go together ( especially where they wrapped around the newel post ) I remember making the first flight differently and some of the older guys shaking there heads in shame now it just seems logical to have a groove on the bottom of the riser and I've never gone back to the old way.

Coley


Coley I only ever worked on a couple of flights of stairs with my grandfather as a teenager. So no where near experienced enough to comment, by far the majority of my work has been furniture related.
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Re: Just coping!

Postby Woodbloke » 10 Aug 2014, 17:38

RogerS wrote:Re photos...I think the term 'resizing' is probably a red-herring. I think the real issue is that FB lets you post photos directly to it. We made the decision not to allow that on TWH2 which means that one has to post photos to another platform such as photobox or Flickr. Have to confess, in retrospect, I find that 'stops' me from posting more photos.

Not an issue here Rog as it's the way I've always done it. New tab for Photobucket alongside WH2 'reply' and it takes seconds only…what's not to like? - Rob
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Re: Just coping!

Postby Rod » 10 Aug 2014, 18:09

I tend to use photos I've taken on my smartphone because using Tapatalk it's so easy to upload.
The only problem with using your phone is that unless you save them to a named album they can disappear into the cloud? And they can take up a lot of memory.
For a more permanent storage solution I use my web browser and ImageShack which allows you to resize the image for Forums etc

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Re: Just coping!

Postby Peter Sefton » 10 Aug 2014, 20:30

Bob
I take my workshop photos and and video clips on my iPhone and once a day it uploads them all by CameraSync to my Dropbox account.
If updating a post/status on Facebook I just click on the FB Photo/Video button and this brings up my Dropbox folder, I scroll down my pics and hit the choose button. The picture pops up in the FB status and I right my comments and add more photos or video if required. All very quick and easy.

Can this be used on TWH2 without resizing, any advise or tips can only help. I feel part of the success of FB is how easy it is the use.

Cheers Peter
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Re: Just coping!

Postby Andyp » 10 Aug 2014, 20:48

Peter, we looked into using Dropbox to host images in forum posts when we did the initial testing of the forum and we came to the conclusion that Dropbox cannot be used as an image host that will let you hotlink images on forum posts.
Of course I would be happy to be proved wrong.
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cheers
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Re: Just coping!

Postby 9fingers » 10 Aug 2014, 20:59

looks like there maybe a way
see http://www.druhosting.com/content/image-hosting-dropbox

where someone seems to have had some success.

Andy: as you have a dropbox account, could you give this a try mate?

Cheers

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Re: Just coping!

Postby Andyp » 10 Aug 2014, 21:08

Ok will do but I'll create a new thread rather than go off topic here
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Re: Just coping!

Postby 9fingers » 10 Aug 2014, 21:10

Andyp wrote:Ok will do but I'll create a new thread rather than go off topic here



You could always play in the mod area Andy

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Re: Just coping!

Postby Peter Sefton » 10 Aug 2014, 21:16

Thanks guys apologies for going off topic, by the way I don't have any photo's of the scribed windows :oops:
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