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wadkin JTA restoration

This is where we don't want anything but evidence of your finest wood butchering in all its glorious, and photograph laden glory. Bring your finished products or WIP's, we love them all, so long as there's pictures, and plenty of 'em!

Re: wadkin JTA restoration

Postby wallace » 10 Feb 2017, 11:10

Stephen I was cleaning the bearing and one of the balls fell out of the cage :o I've been shopping around and a couple of places have said there obsolete with no old stock. I've found a skf bearing but I bet it wont have the bronze cage
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Re: wadkin JTA restoration

Postby 9fingers » 10 Feb 2017, 11:18

I wonder about the advantage of a solid bronze cage over a fabricated one?

Virtually all bearings I've had to replace have been due to wear/slackness or pitting of the bearing surfaces.
Not knowingly seen a cage failure.

I'll gloss over a car gearbox that ended up slicing some of the balls in half :shock:

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Re: wadkin JTA restoration

Postby stephen.wood125 » 10 Feb 2017, 15:47

Yikes!

What size is it?

Always riveted to your work, the quality is something else! When I get back on my feet I will probably start trying to get some proper old cast iron!

Keep the pictures coming please!

Stephen
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Re: wadkin JTA restoration

Postby kirkpoore1 » 11 Feb 2017, 05:50

Was the bearing out of the motor or the machine? if the machine, it might be worth trying to reuse it. This isn't a high speed application, so you might get lucky. If out of the motor, I can't see why you'd need a double row bearing.

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Re: wadkin JTA restoration

Postby wallace » 11 Feb 2017, 12:48

Its out of the motor, the motor spindle is extra long and holds the sanding bobbins. You have to remove the rotor to get to the upper bearing which if memory serves is a big boy. I did some more searching and have found a budget bearing for £25 so I will try that. This machine was built in 1956
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Re: wadkin JTA restoration

Postby wallace » 11 Feb 2017, 19:01

Theres one thing I really like when doing these machines is the finishing touches done by hand by a guy in 1956. The angle pointer is made from cast brass and you can see that its been hand filed to get the point in the right place.

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I bought some shield technology rust remedy from workshop heaven thinking it would help clean bits. Its not cheap at £27 and I was really disappointed by the results. It says it removes rust after a couple of hours. I left a piece in for 24 and it did diddly squat. I contacted them and they said did you degrease it, and with what. I had used gunk which apparently is no good. They don't tell you on the instructions that you even need to degrease. Then I was advised I should buy there degreaser at another £25. I asked if its possible I got a duff batch.

I had to do it the old fashioned way with a wire wheel, and then used cold blackening solution.

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And heres my second rant, I bought some Boeshield again not cheap at £20 a tin, used it a few times and then it wouldn't spray. Contacted the company and they said its cold weather stick it in some warm water. Still doesn't work. I have a tin from two years ago which still works.

I've got loose balls

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I found a bearing but it came and I've cocked up, its single row and not self aligning.

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This little lot is the tilt for the table, everything came apart reasonably easy apart from one little pinned collar which wouldn't play nice and took 2 hrs to get off.

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I was hoping to use the magic deruster on this but I might set up electrolysis tub.

Image
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Re: wadkin JTA restoration

Postby tracerman » 12 Feb 2017, 00:37

Wallace - I have been lurking here and watching with interest . Looks like you have started on a tough one this time but I have every confidence in you . Wish I had your courage .
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Re: wadkin JTA restoration

Postby wallace » 12 Feb 2017, 11:46

I think your right Steve, this one is going to be a challenge. I think I'm going to strip and asses everything just in case theres something that might scupper the job. I think the threaded bar and the broken castings are my main concerns. I cant imagine what it would cost to have that bar reproduced. I've been toying with the idea of brazing the broken castings.
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Re: wadkin JTA restoration

Postby Commander » 13 Feb 2017, 09:23

Coming along nicely Wallace, this machine must be quite a task due to the sheer size and weight of all the components. Having it stand outside in the rain surely hasn't helped the situation....
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Re: wadkin JTA restoration

Postby wallace » 13 Feb 2017, 10:38

Most bits are manageable when stripped, I started stripping the motor which is the biggest I've come across on a wadkin. That was a chain hoist jobby.
I new it was going to be rough when I bought it, the auction pictures showed it buried in brambles.
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Re: wadkin JTA restoration

Postby stephen.wood125 » 16 Feb 2017, 11:09

Watching as usual with great interest!

That really is a beast.

The hand finishing and fettling is a lovely touch and another great endorsement of you saving these classics.

:eusa-clap: :eusa-clap: :eusa-clap:
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Re: wadkin JTA restoration

Postby wallace » 16 Feb 2017, 18:05

More disassembly, the motor came to bits really easy.

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This one looks in good nick

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I hope I don't have to replace this big boy

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Just noticed these under the paint

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Never come across a red earth tag

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I started cleaning up the ways on the bobbin, you can still see the hand scraping.

Image
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Re: wadkin JTA restoration

Postby stephen.wood125 » 17 Feb 2017, 14:46

Fabulous Brunellian Brobdingnagian engineering! :text-coolphotos:
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Re: wadkin JTA restoration

Postby wallace » 18 Feb 2017, 18:04

Houston we have a problem, I rebuilt the motor and thought I'd test it before I do any cosmetic work. It was not very happy when I switched it on. very loud hum and spindle juddering :cry:
It has 6 wires coming out of the windings, 3 were joined together and the other went to the phases.
I don't have a mega tester but checked for continuity. All of the wires have continuity to each other but no continuity to the motor body.
Any advice people.
I'm hoping this is not a rewind jobby, its 4hp and a very big motor. This could end up scuppering the project and making this machine into a parts one.
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Re: wadkin JTA restoration

Postby 9fingers » 18 Feb 2017, 18:28

Was it running before you started stripping it down?

Any "electrical smells" when you first opened it up?

My hunch would be shorted turns which can be difficult to check for without specialist gear.

I'd drop it into your local friendly rewind shop for their assessment.

Good Luck

Bob
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Re: wadkin JTA restoration

Postby wallace » 18 Feb 2017, 20:38

I did not try it before hand because it was very stiff. No smells, the windings looked pretty clean. There was evidence of emulsified grease so maybe water had got in. This is going to be fun getting it in the car, the thing must weigh 15 stone
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Re: wadkin JTA restoration

Postby Commander » 20 Feb 2017, 09:21

wallace wrote:I did not try it before hand because it was very stiff. No smells, the windings looked pretty clean. There was evidence of emulsified grease so maybe water had got in. This is going to be fun getting it in the car, the thing must weigh 15 stone

:shock: That will be a chore...
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Re: wadkin JTA restoration

Postby wallace » 21 Feb 2017, 10:51

I had to call a friend to help me lift the motor into the car, luckily my motor guy has an engine lift. He did a test with the mega tester and it was not good. He let me strip the motor at his shop. The leads were pretty perished and when I took them out of the heat shrink further up there was moisture. He stuck it in the oven and is going to try and put some heat shrink on all the leads as they come out of the windings.
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Re: wadkin JTA restoration

Postby 9fingers » 21 Feb 2017, 11:01

Fingers crossed then!

Anyone putting machinery outside in the wet needs unspeakable things doing to them as well as reporting to the RSPCM!
Not only can it wreck electrics but creates so much work in de-rusting.
As soon as machinery can't be stored in the dry it needs to be sold on to someone who can care for it.

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Re: wadkin JTA restoration

Postby wallace » 21 Feb 2017, 16:27

When I bought this the pictures showed it in the middle of a bramble patch and judging by the rust on things it had been their for a good while. One thing I did notice was the leads for the disc part were surrounded with a big heat shrink which enclosed all of the wires, when I removed this there was a lot of moisture and the leads were perished. The wires for the bobbin side went into the same enclosure but were not heat shrinked and they appear fine and still flexible.
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Re: wadkin JTA restoration

Postby 9fingers » 21 Feb 2017, 16:38

wallace wrote:When I bought this the pictures showed it in the middle of a bramble patch and judging by the rust on things it had been their for a good while. One thing I did notice was the leads for the disc part were surrounded with a big heat shrink which enclosed all of the wires, when I removed this there was a lot of moisture and the leads were perished. The wires for the bobbin side went into the same enclosure but were not heat shrinked and they appear fine and still flexible.


Just as in wood, a building etc, trapped moisture is a killer. Allow it to breathe and there will be far less damage.
Applies to B&Q shrink-wrapped banana wood too!

Bob
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Re: wadkin JTA restoration

Postby wallace » 22 Feb 2017, 19:35

I got a call from my motor guy and he said he had tried the motor in his oven and it hadn't improved the mega test. I was waiting for the huge rewind cost and was surprised at £220. I think that's a cracking price considering its 4hp and physically huge.
I ordered some Phosphoric acid and citric acid to try out. Both cost half the price of the magic solution from workshop heavin.

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I tried the phosphoric and I am quite impressed.

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The hand wheels look rough but after 30 mins

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Re: wadkin JTA restoration

Postby Malc2098 » 22 Feb 2017, 19:40

Wow! Don't you just love shiny hand wheel! They're so tactile!

Nice work.
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Re: wadkin JTA restoration

Postby 9fingers » 22 Feb 2017, 19:54

That is a very good price for the rewind Mark.

The cost is mainly driven by the hp rating. Being a larger motor can often make the job easier as there is more room to work, get your hands in etc.

Cheers

Bob
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Re: wadkin JTA restoration

Postby Tusses » 22 Feb 2017, 21:30

Phosphoric is my go to for rust ... Jenolite is what I keep in for general cleaning. just because I'm used to working on old cars, and motor factors sell it . I think this came up in another post, and there are cheaper ways of phosphorizing things ! :-)
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