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Martin Guitar Kit (It's First Public Outing!)

This is where we don't want anything but evidence of your finest wood butchering in all its glorious, and photograph laden glory. Bring your finished products or WIP's, we love them all, so long as there's pictures, and plenty of 'em!

Re: Martin Guitar Kit

Postby Malc2098 » 04 Jun 2020, 14:30

Andyp wrote:Put it another way, can you imagine getting to the end of the tally ho vids only to find out he wont set sail.


:lol:
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Re: Martin Guitar Kit

Postby Malc2098 » 04 Jun 2020, 16:29

Tailpiece and endpin socket done.

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And this is what the back and rim look like together.

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Mods, that second one keeps turning. No idea why. I carry out the iPhone instructions to the letter.
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Re: Martin Guitar Kit

Postby 9fingers » 04 Jun 2020, 16:37

So far that cover strip looks a bit out of place on a wooden instrument I presume there will be other decorative details that will tie in with the contrasting strip.

Bob

Ps I had to google uhu hart glue. I’ve known the uhu brand for years but presumably the hart bit comes from some sort of company merger along the line?
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Re: Martin Guitar Kit

Postby Malc2098 » 04 Jun 2020, 16:59

Bob, there will be binding and purfling in the same black and white stripey pattern. I'm not looking forward to that job.

They are not exclusively cosmetic or decorative. They do serve a practical purpose, but then their decoration can be enhanced as much as the luthier wants.
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Re: Martin Guitar Kit

Postby Malc2098 » 06 Jun 2020, 08:44

Now, here is where it starts getting interesting.

This is the supplied top, or soundboard, for the guitar. I think it's sitka spruce. It's book matched and glued together. It has the sound hole cut and the rosette channels routed. It's been sanded to thickness through a drum sander.

I've got to glue these purflings into the channels.

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Let's have a dry run.....

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....and wrap the soundboard in paper so I don't spread glue all over it!!

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Re: Martin Guitar Kit

Postby Malc2098 » 07 Jun 2020, 13:07

I've purfled the rosette! :eusa-dance:

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Then I scraped and sanded it, and slightly sanded a roundover of the soundhole.

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I hope you can tell the difference in the images (apart from being from opposite directions :) )

The two outer joins will be covered by the fretboard. The inner join will be visible and I've tried to make it as good as possible and bang on the centre line.
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Re: Martin Guitar Kit

Postby DaveL » 07 Jun 2020, 14:19

That looks very fiddly to do!
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Re: Martin Guitar Kit

Postby Malc2098 » 08 Jun 2020, 11:39

DaveL wrote:That looks very fiddly to do!



That was, Dave.

I don't know how many dry runs I did before I even tried to cut to length. The outer ring didn't need cutting. The inner ring did and I had to do that as well as I could because it will be visible. The centre ring comprised of about nine strands and cutting to length was tricky because what is a straight line across the channel is an inclined line as the strands come out and are straightened.

Once I applied glue to the channel, I had to go for it. I couldn't stop.

But after the cabinet scraping and sanding, I think they look quite good.
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Re: Martin Guitar Kit

Postby Malc2098 » 08 Jun 2020, 15:12

Brace yerselves!

Now we get to the really interesting bit. It's how the guitar works.

I've been back on to the supplier in the States because there was both an absence of blueprint in the kit nor was the soundboard marked with where all the different braces went.

He sent me a link to a downloadable blueprint of a similar model. Similar, but different dimensions, so that wasn't a great deal of help. So, I surfed and found blueprints of the correct model available for purchase. I managed to expand one of the thumbnails sufficiently to print and read dimensions off and started applying them to my soundboard.

Here's how it went.

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Everything is referenced off the centre line, so to keep perpendicular to it, I drew two parallel lines, one each side of the board, and marked the dimensions from the top along them and was able to square across to either the centre line or any other points like on the outline.

First was the top plate.

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Then came the top bar.

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These two keep the soundboard stiff close to the neck joint and under the top end of the fretboard. The top bar also provides a level of reinforcement to the top side off the sound hole.

The X Brace comes next.

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The X brace keeps the soundboard stiffish and also curved to the large diameter arc. I say, 'ish' because it's how the soundboard vibrates that gives a guitar it's tone.

Next comes the bridge plate.

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The bridge plate supports the bridge and saddle on the front side of the soundboard. This is going to be a 12 string, six pairs of strings. The force they exert on to the soundboard is somewhere in the region of 250 lbs. They are trying to rip the bridge of the front off the board and so this plate, notched into the x braces and glued to the underside here resists that force, I hope!

After this comes the tone bars.

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These affect the tone created by the vibrations of the stings. They can be 'tuned' by carefully removing some of their mass. In fact all the braces can be tuned to remove mass to improve the tine. The braces strength comes in their height, not their width. So some luthiers scallop the braces and bars and taper them to the top without reducing their height outside the scallops. Not something I'm going to experiment with. But all the bars a braces are scalloped on either end to where they meet another brace or the kerfed linings.

Next, the side braces, one side

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....and the other.

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Lastly, the sound hole reinforcement braces.

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They do exactly what they're called. The sound hole is a weak point. Part of the X Braces, part of top bar and these little braces provide reinforcement around the sound hole and under the rosette.

Well, it looks like the pictures, but I've no idea if it will be ok. But it can't be far off, so next job, I've got to glue them on. That's going to take a bit of planning. Back to youtube. :)
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Re: Martin Guitar Kit

Postby Malc2098 » 08 Jun 2020, 15:18

Oh, and what and why a 12 string, I hear you ask?

I had a 12 string years ago and loved some of the sounds it can make. For those of you who don't know, then remember back to the 60s and the Seekers song, 'I'll Never Find Another You'. Keith Potger played 12 string throughout, including that recognisable opening riff.

But you weren't looking at him, were you!! ;)
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Re: Martin Guitar Kit

Postby DaveL » 08 Jun 2020, 15:41

12 string, brings back memories of my teens, I had a Sharftsberry PBass copy and the mate who played guitar had a number of different 6 and 12 string instruments. We strung one 12 string with all octaves, very odd sound played by itself but with the bass it was good. Sounded a bit like My Sweet Lord, by George Harrison. It did confuse the chap in the music shop when I went to buy sets of strings.

Looking at all those parts you need for the acoustic makes me glad I am planning a solid body P bass, must sort out all the bits I have and get some wood for the body, sometime soon....
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Re: Martin Guitar Kit

Postby Andyp » 08 Jun 2020, 15:47

I’d no idea that there was so much going on, out of sight, in a guitar.

Malc2098 wrote:Oh, and what and why a 12 string, I hear you ask?

I had a 12 string years ago and loved some of the sounds it can make. For those of you who don't know, then remember back to the 60s and the Seekers song, 'I'll Never Find Another You'. Keith Potger played 12 string throughout, including that recognisable opening riff.

But you weren't looking at him, were you!! ;)


Oh I am looking forward to your version of that.
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Re: Martin Guitar Kit

Postby RogerS » 08 Jun 2020, 22:08

I'm saving myself a wet Sunday afternoon to watch this entire superb thread from start to finish.

My old woodwork master, George Love, turned his hand from making violins to guitars later in life.

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Re: Martin Guitar Kit

Postby Andyp » 09 Jun 2020, 06:59

Do you think that the maker of these kits are doing a Frank Hornby and deliberately putting errors in the instructions?
I do not think therefore I do not am.

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Re: Martin Guitar Kit

Postby Malc2098 » 09 Jun 2020, 09:14

Andyp wrote:Do you think that the maker of these kits are doing a Frank Hornby and deliberately putting errors in the instructions?


No. I think he had a enquiry from a Brit which was non-standard and when he and his supplier put the stuff together, their QA was not quite up to it. Then when 'challenged' by said Brit, he didn't want to pay all the shipping charges and just wanted to get me building. He's kept saying call me and we'll get it sorted. I told him I'm not paying transatlantic call charges.

The instructions, if all the kit parts were correct, are still a little succinct. Others have said on their WIPs elsewhere on the interweb.
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Re: Martin Guitar Kit

Postby Malc2098 » 09 Jun 2020, 09:16

My old woodwork master, Roger, was alleged to have been a gun runner in the Spanish Civil war!!! That's probably the closest he got to a guitar!! :D
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Re: Martin Guitar Kit

Postby Andyp » 09 Jun 2020, 09:37

Malc2098 wrote:
Andyp wrote:Do you think that the maker of these kits are doing a Frank Hornby and deliberately putting errors in the instructions?


No. I think he had a enquiry from a Brit which was non-standard and when he and his supplier put the stuff together, their QA was not quite up to it. Then when 'challenged' by said Brit, he didn't want to pay all the shipping charges and just wanted to get me building. He's kept saying call me and we'll get it sorted. I told him I'm not paying transatlantic call charges.

The instructions, if all the kit parts were correct, are still a little succinct. Others have said on their WIPs elsewhere on the interweb.


Whats app video or voice calls don't cost anything, nor facetime, zoom etc.
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Re: Martin Guitar Kit

Postby RogerS » 09 Jun 2020, 11:27

Andyp wrote:
Malc2098 wrote:
Andyp wrote:Do you think that the maker of these kits are doing a Frank Hornby and deliberately putting errors in the instructions?


No. I think he had a enquiry from a Brit which was non-standard and when he and his supplier put the stuff together, their QA was not quite up to it. Then when 'challenged' by said Brit, he didn't want to pay all the shipping charges and just wanted to get me building. He's kept saying call me and we'll get it sorted. I told him I'm not paying transatlantic call charges.

The instructions, if all the kit parts were correct, are still a little succinct. Others have said on their WIPs elsewhere on the interweb.


Whats app video or voice calls don't cost anything, nor facetime, zoom etc.


Steady on, Andy. Malc's only just discovered texting ;) :lol:
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Re: Martin Guitar Kit

Postby Malc2098 » 09 Jun 2020, 12:54

You boys! :)
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Re: Martin Guitar Kit

Postby Malc2098 » 09 Jun 2020, 16:11

You know the old saying about 'measure twice cut once', well I've not really got measurements, although I try to extrapolate them from the thumbnail image and scale up, down and along.

The scale length of this guitar (the distance from the nut to the saddle - anything more than that, you can google it) is 24.9" and you add 0.1" to compensate for the the size of the thickest string going over the saddle (and then you have to make compensations on the saddle for the thinner strings!!).

Well, I wanted to check that the neck and fretboard provided were not only correct, but when fitted allowed the string holes to go though the bridge, soundboard and more importantly the bridge plate where I had drawn its position on the soundboard. I wanted to make sure there was enough space for 12 string holes to be accommodated (all in the absence of the blueprint!!)

So I laid everything out so I could see where holes would go when I drilled them from the outside once the construction had finished.

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Phew! Just about in the right place.

Next, when I drew all the brace positions yesterday, they were all loose and only held down by my fingers. So when I went to set up the X brace and bridge plate ready for gluing, I used little blocks of offcuts with DST on them to lock them all in place and so they will also stay in place as I glue them and start clamping with the go bars. The braces were a little off what I drew, or rather my drawing was a little off their locked-in positions.

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Re: Martin Guitar Kit

Postby Malc2098 » 09 Jun 2020, 17:48

So here goes with the dry run!

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You might remember that these braces are radiused, about 25' or so, so I can't clamp them against a flat surface. The pros use a CNC milled radiussed dished board. I have to improvise. I've used bits of a yoga mat from the local hardware store. Makes a brilliant bench cover for delicate works.

Just to prove that the clamping is working to the arc.

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I went round with that post it note, getting the clamping force right until I couldn't get that piece of paper under the braces all round. The pros use feeler gauges.

And now to prove that I have glued it!!

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Re: Martin Guitar Kit

Postby Malc2098 » 09 Jun 2020, 19:11

And just before dinner, the bridge plate, nicely butted up after those locking pieces earlier.

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That's quite a bit of force holding it down, because it, too, has to form that arc.
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Re: Martin Guitar Kit

Postby Robert » 09 Jun 2020, 22:24

Nothing I can add. Just wanted to let you know I'm enjoying watching this progress.

Must be a little stressful for you committing to each step but I have no problem just watching :)
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Re: Martin Guitar Kit

Postby Malc2098 » 10 Jun 2020, 09:51

Robert wrote:Nothing I can add. Just wanted to let you know I'm enjoying watching this progress.

Must be a little stressful for you committing to each step but I have no problem just watching :)



Robert, Thank you for your warm support. I shall always wear it! :D
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Re: Martin Guitar Kit

Postby Malc2098 » 10 Jun 2020, 19:20

Got quite a bit done today.

Lock and dry run with the tone bars.

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Then glue them and remove the blocks when tacky.

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Remove go-bars after an hour.

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And check the dishing of the top achieved by the radius on the undersides of the braces.

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Shape the side braces to a triangular section before gluing and clamping.

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The glue and clamp the top plate and bar.

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And in for dinner.
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