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The Orangerie - duff glass-fibre-coating REPAIRED

This is where we don't want anything but evidence of your finest wood butchering in all its glorious, and photograph laden glory. Bring your finished products or WIP's, we love them all, so long as there's pictures, and plenty of 'em!

Re: The Orangerie - Lantern

Postby MY63 » 13 Apr 2019, 13:20

Looks great so far well done
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Re: The Orangerie - Lantern

Postby RogerS » 13 Apr 2019, 17:51

Thanks, Michael.

All the main rafters fitted

Image

Image

What's vexing me is the compound angle I need for the hip rafter. I know it's there and available in the SU drawing but I can't fathom how to get it and so have asked DaveR if he can help.

Image

Gut feel suggests that it's 45 degrees and 15 degrees but a trial cut doesn't seem to work.

Image
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Re: The Orangerie - Lantern

Postby Robert » 13 Apr 2019, 18:33

It's not going to be 15 deg if that is the angle of the others as the corner one will be longer - running on the diagonal and hence shallower angled. Bit of trigonometry required... or sketchup.
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Re: The Orangerie - Lantern

Postby 9fingers » 13 Apr 2019, 19:35

I make it that the corner rafter will be about 10.73 degrees.

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Re: The Orangerie - Lantern

Postby RogerS » 13 Apr 2019, 21:43

9fingers wrote:I make it that the corner rafter will be about 10.73 degrees.

Bob


:eusa-clap: :eusa-clap: Seriously impressed.

DaveR and SketchUp also came up with that figure.
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Re: The Orangerie - Lantern

Postby Mike G » 14 Apr 2019, 09:13

RogerS wrote:..........Gut feel suggests that it's 45 degrees and 15 degrees but a trial cut doesn't seem to work........


That's the usual way of doing it on site: a trial cut in scrap on each end of a batten, offered up and scribed. Adjust, offer it up again to check, then transfer the measurements and angles to the real piece.
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Re: The Orangerie - Lantern

Postby Mike G » 14 Apr 2019, 09:14

9fingers wrote:I make it that the corner rafter will be about 10.73 degrees.


Which is fine, until one of the pieces of wood involved has a slight twist or bow or cup.
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Re: The Orangerie - Lantern

Postby Dave R » 14 Apr 2019, 15:11

Enquiring minds want to know: Was 10.73° correct?
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Re: The Orangerie - Lantern

Postby 9fingers » 14 Apr 2019, 15:20

Dave R wrote:Enquiring minds want to know: Was 10.73° correct?

As Mike points out it so much depends on any timber distortion and level of the wall plates and squareness of the corner in question.
Everything being perfect, the angle is given by
Arctan (( tan 15)/sqrt 2)

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Re: The Orangerie - Lantern

Postby RogerS » 14 Apr 2019, 16:05

I was happy with 10.7 ! Where I got the neighbouring timber positions correct, it worked a treat.

Photos to come tomorrow. Too damn cold to hold the camera steady.
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Re: The Orangerie - Lantern

Postby SamQ aka Ah! Q! » 15 Apr 2019, 09:48

Too damn cold to hold the camera steady.

Roger, I was going to write "Wimp! Oi werr opp ladder 'ere yesterday in T-shirt!" ..which I was, then remembered crossing the moors just a wee bit south of you recently and marvelling at a 5-8 degree downturn in air temp as I drove up and over :o 'Mazin' how the Pennines create micro-climates. Even more so above 1500ft in the Lakes when we got there. Snow unmelted since...? Took a LOT of warm clobber even low down in Borrowdale on the Cumbria Way. So, no raspberry M8; been there, felt that, 'specially since arthritis took up lodgings in me thumbs. :evil:

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Re: The Orangerie - Lantern

Postby RogerS » 20 Apr 2019, 12:17

A quick resume from the past week.

Getting the angle right

Image

Here's the photo I wanted to take...bit out of focus, I'm afraid.

Image

I had been thinking about glueing some supporting wedges up there but realised that with the taper, the hips were self-locking.

The bottom connection of the hip rafter gave cause for some head-scracthing as it's all on a slope

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And the cock-up fairy kept paying a visit :oops:

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And the jack rafters also seemed to have some new angles here and there :eusa-think:

Image

But finally managed to finish the main part of the lantern

Image

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And here's the 'Workshop in the Sky' :D I realised that I'd need to tweak nearly every 'closer' because the spacing between the rafters wasn't exact (I lack Mike G's skills/patience with this sort of stuff). I lugged them up there to save time in not running up and down the ladder forever. Saved me countless hours. Just had to be careful walking past them.

The planer is because the heights of the rafters also vary down by the upstand :oops: Talking of which, I needn't have made it as high as I have. That would have saved time, timber and money !

Image
And the closers fitted

Image

I'll be using Compriband along the top of them.

I have to confess that I've not enjoyed doing this especially on the size I'm working on. I've found it very hard to get things square. In theory I should have used a closer as a spacer between the rafter footings but this meant that if the first rafter was not square then neither would all the rest be. I dunno. I think that I will have to make two or three full size sheets of ply to check the glazing sizes. The rafters being only 45mm wide I don't have much margin for error.

And the sharp eyed among you will have noticed the absence of something. Yup..the scaffold. Just as well as two of the feet were now floating ! I wondered why it was rocking.

Image

It was a toss-up between knowing that I always had a handhold available no matter where I was on the roof against continually bashing my head.

Lastly - I have a question. How long should I leave the overhang of the rafter feet ? As far as I can see there's nothing directly influencing this but I could well be missing something critical.
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Re: The Orangerie - Lantern

Postby Malc2098 » 20 Apr 2019, 17:49

Looking good.
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Re: The Orangerie - Lantern

Postby Mike G » 20 Apr 2019, 20:26

RogerS wrote:.......Lastly - I have a question. How long should I leave the overhang of the rafter feet ? As far as I can see there's nothing directly influencing this but I could well be missing something critical.


You can even make it work with no overhang at all, so you're right, there's nothing critical about this decision. Make it on aesthetic grounds. Personally, I reckon the ones second and third up from the bottom of your second last photo look about right, whereas the lowest rafter looks too long.
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Re: The Orangerie - Lantern

Postby RogerS » 21 Apr 2019, 18:51

Mike G wrote:
RogerS wrote:.......Lastly - I have a question. How long should I leave the overhang of the rafter feet ? As far as I can see there's nothing directly influencing this but I could well be missing something critical.


You can even make it work with no overhang at all, so you're right, there's nothing critical about this decision. Make it on aesthetic grounds. Personally, I reckon the ones second and third up from the bottom of your second last photo look about right, whereas the lowest rafter looks too long.


Thank, Mike. Just the job.

Image

Think I've cracked the linseed oil paint - the second coat has to go on very thinly. Lots and lots of brushing. You'd be surprised just how much you can spread it.

Just as well as I'd forgotten the pitfall aka getting it on something non-porous because it never dries (or takes ages) and so you end up transferring it to anything else that touches the drips...usually also non-porous...and so it's transferred to something else ad infinitum !
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Re: The Orangerie - Lantern

Postby RogerS » 24 Apr 2019, 07:02

All painted up (including me !). Temporary heavy-duty gauge clear polythene roof to allow light in. Took me three goes to actually get something that really was 'heavy-duty'. Now know all about 'gauge' of polythene sheet and what really is 'heavy-duty' as opposed to 'wishful thinking' by some suppliers.


Templates made for the hip ends. In hindsight I should have made the templates first then adjusted the rafters to match. That little mistake will cost me as the glazier charges per template.

Knocked up some ply 'mock' glass for the main rafters...more than a bit embarrassed to say the spacing not as consistent as it should be but Hey Ho.

Image

So now to do the wall panels. Having been up on the roof with some gusty winds, it does wobble a little so wondering about putting some infill panels to stiffen it up. Be a shame as it will spoil the overall design and perhaps I'm worrying unnecessarily since it survived all those storms we had.
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Re: The Orangerie - Lantern

Postby Mike G » 24 Apr 2019, 07:36

The glass stiffens everything up, Roger. I really wouldn't worry too much about a little movement now. Saying that, the hip rafters should be doing quite a lot of bracing, so is it that one or two of those don't fit as well as they should?

If you really are worried about movement, a nice approach might be some steel tie rods as diagonal raised ties, like this:

Image

The rods have a threaded end, and meet in a ring in the middle where the nuts can be tightened to tension everything up. Something along those lines should make a better job than some blanked off panels, I reckon.
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Re: The Orangerie - Lantern

Postby Andyp » 24 Apr 2019, 08:06

Curious to know how the glass will be fitted. Will it be DG?
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Re: The Orangerie - Lantern

Postby RogerS » 24 Apr 2019, 08:28

Andyp wrote:Curious to know how the glass will be fitted.


So am I :lol:

Glazing tape. Can't decide whether to fit it from the inside or the outside TBH. When I was making windows, the cutters I had made gave me a faux putty line on the outside. Glass then fitted in from the inside...never had any leaks. Simple bead to finish off inside. Avoids having to putty in the glass.

But here, one wouldn't necessarily expect to find putty so :eusa-think:

Andyp wrote:Will it be DG?


Single. Pointless the extra cost as we'll not be heating it.
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Re: The Orangerie - Lantern

Postby RogerS » 24 Apr 2019, 08:29

Mike G wrote:The glass stiffens everything up, Roger. I really wouldn't worry too much about a little movement now. Saying that, the hip rafters should be doing quite a lot of bracing, so is it that one or two of those don't fit as well as they should?

If you really are worried about movement, a nice approach might be some steel tie rods as diagonal raised ties, like this:

Image

The rods have a threaded end, and meet in a ring in the middle where the nuts can be tightened to tension everything up. Something along those lines should make a better job than some blanked off panels, I reckon.



Thanks, Mike..that's reassuring. The hip rafters are well-screwed down and wedged in place.
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Re: The Orangerie - time for the 'walls'

Postby RogerS » 01 May 2019, 07:15

You may recall the original design what seems like several lifetimes ago.

Image

Well, here's the protoype which has been signed off by LOML.

Image

Originally the bottom panel was much reduced in height and so replaced with the current size. Looks much better IMO. The top middle rail is not in the final position !

The plan is to cookie-cut these and replicate all the way round. I can't decide though whether or not to make them sightly undersized heightwise and then wedge them (the fixed panels that is) in place as I know that there is some minor variation in height of the openings.

Either that or assemble them (glue/screw) in place to take up the variations OR faff about planing them down to fit. :eusa-think:
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Re: The Orangerie - time for the 'walls'

Postby Malc2098 » 01 May 2019, 10:44

They're going to look so good when it's finished.
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Re: The Orangerie - time for the 'walls'

Postby Andyp » 01 May 2019, 11:59

Are those round windows what you have been doing in MDF?
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Re: The Orangerie - time for the 'walls'

Postby RogerS » 01 May 2019, 12:15

Andyp wrote:Are those round windows what you have been doing in MDF?


I wish ! No, mine is the bottom panel. I outsourced the oval window shapes to Chrispy to do on his magic CNC machine.
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Re: The Orangerie - time for the 'walls'

Postby will1983 » 01 May 2019, 16:13

I would be going smaller and using packers.
It'll allow the structure to move as it wishes without putting to much stress on the glazing.

It'll also make it easier to replace a section at a later date if you wanted/needed to.
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