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The Orangerie - duff glass-fibre-coating REPAIRED

This is where we don't want anything but evidence of your finest wood butchering in all its glorious, and photograph laden glory. Bring your finished products or WIP's, we love them all, so long as there's pictures, and plenty of 'em!

Re: The Orangerie - the Waiting Game

Postby Robert » 12 Nov 2018, 14:35

They painted our OSB roof deck (and let it dry) before the glass fibre went on.

No idea if it was anything special. looked like grey floor paint.
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Re: The Orangerie - the Waiting Game

Postby RogerS » 19 Nov 2018, 18:01

All been a bit hectic here over the last week. Couple of days down South last week to attend my mothers' funeral then back into the saddle. But looking back at the thread, I see that it was only a week ago since the last post. It seems like a month.

Watching all the online videos, the one thing that I've taken away is that they are all on rooves that are large enough for you to do one row of fibreglass at a time by walking on the part of the roof that has yet to be fibreglassed. You're also able to stand up straight! They also feature drip trims et al. But I have none of that.

For starters, I only have this crawl way down one side.

Image

So what have I learned. For the benefit of others trying to do the same cockamamey approach, these are the lessons learned.

1) Buy yourself a couple of boxes of nitrile gloves. One size that you normally use (I use Large) and the other, the next size up. Apply a liberal coating of hand cream or body lotion on your hands and forearms.

Double glove using the normal size then over the top of that, the larger glove because trust me you will find that that outer glove will get ripped by getting stuck to things with fibreglass resin. By having a second pair, you can replace the top one as it gets ripped and without getting much fibreglass on yourself! Hence the body lotion application. The double glove also means that you can peel it off with all the sticky fibreglass resin on it, then go and do other things like mixing up another batch of resin etc. Trust me, you won't regret it.

Now go and buy yourself another box of each size as you will need them.

2) You will end up getting the basic unmixed resin on everything. It goes with the territory. I seem to get the stuff everywhere! Even on my computer keyboard and desk top. You accidentally lean on a spilled drop, it goes into your sweater/whatever and before you know it, it's got transferred to something else. Then from there to somewhere else. I've got resin on resin on resin :lol:

3) Wear your oldest clothes. I have little WIP to show you because if I told you that my jeans can stand upright by themselves by virtue of cured resin, you'll understand why.

On to battle ....

So I have to attack it bit by bit working off a ladder in the well or the Youngman staging platform. I taped up and fibreglassed all the joints in the OSB and also added the strengthening strips as suggested by Will. I also put tape and fibreglass resin into the corner between upstand and OSB. That was difficult as the tape kept wanting to pop out of the 90 degree internal angle. Try as I might, in some areas it just refused to go into the corner and stay there, no matter how much resin I put on. Tried stippling it in with a brush to little avail.

Image

I soon came to the conclusion to not fuss too much, let it go off and then have a blitz with the sander to knock it back. Quantity-wise, I found that 500 gm of resin was enough to work with at a time and gave me time to do some tapework before it started to go off.

When I started, I'd bought a lot of roller buckets and I'd mix 500gm in one bucket, then when that was finished start up a new bucket and so on. The next day, I'd pull out hardened resin from however many buckets I'd been using. After several days doing this I came to the conclusion that that was pointless and that I could simply mix more resin in the same bucket. The resin at the bottom would continue curing but the new stuff would be at a different stage of hardening and unaffected by the stuff at the bottom. And so it turned out.

Mixing I used a set of digital scales purloined from the kitchen. They are not going back ! I used 20gm of hardener to 500gm of resin. That gave me a 4% mix which I thought should be OK for the low temperatures. Wrong....after several days, some areas are still tacky to the touch.

After faffing about with all this reinforcing tape over far too many days (well, lots of distractions here and there) finally came to laying the main roof sections. My Plan A was to cut the CSM (chopped strand matting) wide enough to go round over the rounded outer edge of the roof and also a little way up the upstand (belt and braces). Oh man, that was such a mistake. Same old problems getting it to stick in the upstand corner. Same problem trying to get it to stay stuck over the rounded outer edge. Meanwhile that resin is starting to go off and I've only done 1 sq m !

So Plan B....cut strips of CSM and resin them down the rounded outer edge. Forget the corners as they are fiddly and best left to another day. Forget going up the upstand. Just KISS. Also decided that the advice from the supplier was just plain wrong and that Winter hardener was required as some of the earlier areas were still tacky to the touch.

Even so, I still had some truculent areas that refused to behave

Image

and a bit of a disaster area where the tarpaulin must have blown against it overnight and pulled away the CSM

Image

But it's not all bad..most is pretty tidy like this.

Image

OK..on the last laps now. Cut the CSM to just be enough between upstand and an inch in from the outer edge. A nice flat piece to fibreglass resin down. Just like a normal roof ! Winter hardener was just the job. Found out that a 2kg mix was enough to make good progress, then away to mix more and so on. Ideally I'd have a mate coming along behind me with the consolidating roller or mixing up another batch of resin.

Mmmm...that consolidating roller...I'm not too sure on its efficacy or maybe I'm just not doing it properly as some areas seem a little 'light'.

Image

And I think I can see some small holes ...not enough resin perhaps? Not too fussed as there is resin underneath but I will probably put another coat of resin over the lot before I do the top coat.

But that's for another day as I've run out of resin.

Alright why didn't I go for EDPM ? Simple. It's grey. I wanted a white finish to match the rest.

Why didn't I go down the sensible route and use drip trims ? Again, they are grey plus they cost a bomb.
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Re: The Orangerie - the Waiting Game

Postby TrimTheKing » 19 Nov 2018, 18:19

Good to see you able to carry on working on it Roger. Coming along...

Sorry to hear of your Mum. :(
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Re: The Orangerie - the Waiting Game

Postby Malc2098 » 19 Nov 2018, 19:13

Well done. Condolences.
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Re: The Orangerie - the Waiting Game

Postby jules70 » 20 Nov 2018, 00:09

Thanks for posting. A good read, enjoying getting the updates.
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Re: The Orangerie - the Waiting Game

Postby MY63 » 20 Nov 2018, 19:39

Thanks Roger I have enjoyed reading your experiences both good and bad and I appreciate your perseverance.

I am not to far away if you ever get stuck for an extra pair of hands well when I say pair I do have one good one. :D
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Re: The Orangerie - the Waiting Game

Postby RogerS » 22 Nov 2018, 13:38

MY63 wrote:....
I am not to far away if you ever get stuck for an extra pair of hands well when I say pair I do have one good one. :D


That's very kind of you and the offer is reciprocated.

Current status :

Weather too cold for the fibreglass to cure and/or any linseed oil to be applied. I'd like to do the rafters but am being nagged to do some work indoors by 'er indoors.
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Re: The Orangerie - the Waiting Game

Postby Malc2098 » 22 Nov 2018, 16:33

My workshop started a 7 degrees this morning, but then I'm well 'ard, I think.

Moving around and a little convector actually soon warms it up enough to switch it off.
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Re: The Orangerie - the Waiting Game

Postby RogerS » 22 Nov 2018, 16:37

Malc2098 wrote:My workshop started a 7 degrees this morning, but then I'm well 'ard, I think.

Moving around and a little convector actually soon warms it up enough to switch it off.


The limiting factor is chemical and not human !
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Re: The Orangerie - the Waiting Game

Postby Malc2098 » 22 Nov 2018, 17:00

I knew that! :)
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Re: The Orangerie - trashed beyond salvation

Postby RogerS » 29 Nov 2018, 15:55

Trashed. :(

Beyond salvation.

Image

Image

Image

And you know what ?

I couldn't give a Flying F*** 'cos I've had it with this bloody place.
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Re: The Orangerie - trashed beyond salvation

Postby TrimTheKing » 29 Nov 2018, 16:28

Is that just the covers damaged though Rog? Not the actual structure?

I know it’s disheartening but your a hardy soul, you’ll get there mate!
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Re: The Orangerie - trashed beyond salvation

Postby RogerS » 29 Nov 2018, 17:22

TrimTheKing wrote:Is that just the covers damaged though Rog?


Yes. I released a lot of them as I feared that the scaffold might lift and/or tilt. But it's no longer waterproof, the structure is not in a fit state to over-winter especially if we have one like last year.

TrimTheKing wrote:I know it’s disheartening but your a hardy soul, you’ll get there mate!


Not this time, mate. I've had it.
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Re: The Orangerie - trashed beyond salvation

Postby Mike G » 29 Nov 2018, 20:33

Bloody hell Roger, that's a shame. Brace up the structure (of the orangery, not the scaffold) and come back to it in the spring. It won't suffer much through getting wet. The OSB might swell, but it will still be fine for a roof. If you are going to wrap the building itself in a tarp (rather than the scaffold), then raise a ridge beam in the middle to help water off.

You can maybe make the woodwork for the lantern in your workshop over the winter, and have that ready to go when spring arrives. November in Northumberland on a roof..........it doesn't bear thinking about.
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Re: The Orangerie - trashed beyond salvation

Postby Andyp » 30 Nov 2018, 09:02

Thoughts are with you Roger. I am sure many of us wish we were close enough to lend a hand
I do not think therefore I do not am.

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Re: The Orangerie - trashed beyond salvation

Postby Malc2098 » 30 Nov 2018, 10:13

Roger.

We are thinking of you.

Mike's suggestion seems reasonable. Then you could be getting on with stuff in the house and workshop before spring comes.

Hang in there.
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Re: The Orangerie - trashed beyond salvation

Postby StevieB » 30 Nov 2018, 14:14

Wot they said - hang tough, wrap it up for winter and forget about it - come back to it in the Spring and then decide how to continue. Right now you cannot see the wood for the trees as it were.
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Re: The Orangerie - trashed beyond salvation

Postby Coley » 30 Nov 2018, 14:22

Sad times. In a year or so when the things up and looking amazing this will be a distant memory.

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Re: The Orangerie - trashed beyond salvation

Postby MY63 » 30 Nov 2018, 18:54

Roger very sorry to read this I hope that you can get around this issue.
Although I am quite close I am afraid I am totally incapacitated at the moment.
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Re: The Orangerie - trashed beyond salvation

Postby billybuntus » 01 Dec 2018, 21:13

Just wrap the exposed woodwork (loosely to allow airflow) with a cheap black visqueen sheet.

repair what you can above it and it'll be fine. Keep the heavy weather off the timber and allow a bit fo airflow around it. It'll be fine. I think your becoming a bit obsessed by it (I would be too) and you need to relax it in your mind.

:-)
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Re: The Orangerie - trashed beyond salvation

Postby Rod » 02 Dec 2018, 00:28

A great shame Roger.
Try and put this behind you until the spring, now you can concentrate all your efforts on the house.

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Re: The Orangerie - trashed beyond salvation

Postby RogerS » 03 Dec 2018, 19:13

Well, that was a turn up for the books. I went out this morning to dry off most of the excess water prior to putting it to bed for the winter . Took a lot longer than I expected as the slope on my firrings isn't enough IMO. :( and I had a fair bit of standing globules.

And then the sun came out and it started to get a bit toasty. :eusa-clap: So I bit the bullet and managed to get half of it covered wth topcoat which was a real bonus.

One thing I found was getting the right amount of coating on. Their instructions go to town saying that the thickness must only be about 0.5mm otherwise it won't set...they can even sell you a depth gauge..that you should be able to see the roller marks..that the coverage is 0.5kg per m2.

Trying to follow this I found that as I rollered the topcoat it looked as if it was taking back up the topcoat in some areas and leaving small pinpricks (well, nail pricks) in the coating. I came to the conclusion that that was because the gloopiness of the mix meant that the topcoat didn't flow smoothly and fill up any small holes in the underlying coats. So that as you rolled back and forth, the roller was picking up some of the topcoat and uncovering the pinpricks. Certainly where it was laid on a bit thicker I didn't have this problem yet the thickness issue nagged at me.

The other mistake I made was using an old roller bucket with dried resin covering the walls. The topcoat managed to soften it and I ended up with some scruffy areas as bits came off the old resin and got rollered in !

Having just popped out to the workshop, I needn't have worried about the thickness as a good 7mm in the bucket has gone off nicely.
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Re: The Orangerie - here comes the SUN !!

Postby Malc2098 » 03 Dec 2018, 20:05

:eusa-clap: :eusa-dance: :eusa-clap: :eusa-dance: :eusa-clap:
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Re: The Orangerie - here comes the SUN !!

Postby RogerM » 03 Dec 2018, 20:06

:text-+1:
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Re: The Orangerie - here comes the SUN !!

Postby Malc2098 » 03 Dec 2018, 20:12

Standing globules - when you polish your car, the standing globules are bigger on your bonnet than when the polish has worn off, but the gaps between them are bigger, too. Then they fall off the bonnet easily.

So.......I'm thinking, is it that your firrings aren't steep enough, or is that your surface isn't slippery enough?

Not sure where this leads, but at least I'm thinking! ;)
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