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The Orangerie - duff glass-fibre-coating REPAIRED

This is where we don't want anything but evidence of your finest wood butchering in all its glorious, and photograph laden glory. Bring your finished products or WIP's, we love them all, so long as there's pictures, and plenty of 'em!

Re: The Orangerie - grab the weather

Postby 9fingers » 24 Aug 2018, 13:13

RogerS wrote:Roof design by North Yorkshire Timber. Cannot recommend them highly enough. Superb service.



So are you going for the mix of glulam and I beams shown on the diagram or traditional beams plus glulams?

Just wondering about the aesthetics of I beams really.

Bob
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Re: The Orangerie - grab the weather

Postby RogerS » 24 Aug 2018, 13:51

Andyp wrote:Indeed. when is it coming?


Dunno !
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Re: The Orangerie - grab the weather

Postby RogerS » 24 Aug 2018, 16:43

I do now.

Next Friday !
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Re: The Orangerie - grab the weather

Postby Malc2098 » 24 Aug 2018, 17:39

Are they fitting, or are you getting extra hands?
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Re: The Orangerie - grab the weather

Postby RogerS » 24 Aug 2018, 19:11

Malc2098 wrote:Are they fitting, or are you getting extra hands?


Moi! plus ano
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Re: The Orangerie - grab the weather

Postby Malc2098 » 24 Aug 2018, 19:45

Anos are so helpful!
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Re: The Orangerie - grab the weather

Postby RogerS » 26 Aug 2018, 08:10

9fingers wrote:
RogerS wrote:Roof design by North Yorkshire Timber. Cannot recommend them highly enough. Superb service.



So are you going for the mix of glulam and I beams shown on the diagram or traditional beams plus glulams?

Just wondering about the aesthetics of I beams really.

Bob



Missed this one, Bob. A good point but the i-beams will be hidden. A little bit like this one I prepared earlier.

P1060611.jpg
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This time I'd like to see the glulams.
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Re: The Orangerie - ring beam going in

Postby RogerS » 26 Aug 2018, 08:32

First attempt was a cock-up. Putting the beam there added little to the stability. :oops:
Very Japanese looking though.

Image

These went in better and straightened up and strengthened the long wall. Finished one long side and half of one end.

Image

Am in a bit of a quandary what to do at the two front corners.
Image

The rightmost tenon is forward of the side frames. Not sure whether to mortice out several triangular pieces of ply to give extra stability to these corners. Probably not as there is going to be the flat roof going around the perimeter and so that will provide that stability.

Image

Of course, it didn't all go to plan. My self-inflicted problem is that I have too many things on the go at once. Liaising with builders, suppliers, SWMBO. When it's raining I'm laying the oak flooring indoors. When it's not, I'm outside. Plus my version control of my SketchUp drawings is non-existent and which is why my cookie-cutter approach to the frames has failed in that the original longside made with Domino's has a 1570mm wide opening in each frame. But the 'new' tenoned frames seem to have ended up at 1565mm :oops:

In hindsight I should have rebated the frames so that the window frames will 'sit' much better. I wish I had Mike G's forward planning skills.

Also to support the cookie-cutter approach, I knew that I'd need to put in filler pieces between each sub-frame but realised that I could take advantage of this by offsetting them forward of the sub-frames to give (a) a bit of detail on the outside face

Image

and (b) give me some channels inside in which to run any power cables etc

Image

and if I made everything so that the sub-frames were offset inwards over the cills like this

Image

then those same power cables could be run out of sight. Only ....

only..did I tell you that my version control was non-existent :oops:

No overlap

Image

Not the end of the world.

Thinking ahead re the glulam and roofing stuff, I reckon that if I hire one of my all-time favourite bits of kit

Image

then I can do it all myself. TBH I'd prefer it that way as then I can go at my own pace and work out any problems etc. The only problem I foresee with that approach is nailing stuff to the rimboard but I'll use screws instead.
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Re: The Orangerie - ring beam going in

Postby 9fingers » 26 Aug 2018, 08:37

Agreed. Exposed glulams can look nice.

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Re: The Orangerie - glulams arriving today

Postby RogerS » 01 Sep 2018, 06:24

Big day, today. Glulams and associated roofing beams arriving on a Hi-Ab. I'd like to try and persaude the driver to bring his truck right up to the orangerie and use his Hi-Ab to put a couple of glulams up on top but somehow I don't think he'll bite.

I've also decided to go for fibreglass protection rather than EDPM as I can add a coloured pigment to the fibreglass as I didn't really fancy the drab greyness of EDPM.
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Re: The Orangerie - glulams arriving today

Postby Coley » 01 Sep 2018, 07:06

RogerS wrote:Big day, today. Glulams and associated roofing beams arriving on a Hi-Ab. I'd like to try and persaude the driver to bring his truck right up to the orangerie and use his Hi-Ab to put a couple of glulams up on top but somehow I don't think he'll bite.

No harm in asking him Roger. Perhaps the promise of a small bribe might give him an incentive You're making good progress with this especially when you're lumping it around on your own. Are you still rating the linseed paint, any regrets with it?


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Re: The Orangerie - glulams arriving today

Postby Mike G » 01 Sep 2018, 07:59

RogerS wrote:Big day, today. Glulams and associated roofing beams arriving on a Hi-Ab. I'd like to try and persaude the driver to bring his truck right up to the orangerie and use his Hi-Ab to put a couple of glulams up on top but somehow I don't think he'll bite.........


They generally will in my experience, so long as there is a clear drive in and some hardstanding so they don't get bogged. A bottle of wine or half a dozen beers usually helps the decision making process.
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Re: The Orangerie - glulams arriving today

Postby RogerS » 01 Sep 2018, 11:25

Not quite as exciting as I was expecting TBH.

Image

The glulams are nothing like the over-engineered ones we had at the place pictured a few posts back.

Image

All nicely labelled up, as well. Only...

Only the first i-beam I took up looked to be short
Image

and t'other end

Image

and I started to panic. But then looking at the Joint Requirements list there are a lot of i-beams labelled K1, K2 etc but they don't appear on the drawing.

Can anyone please tell me what/why/how they are supposed to be used as I've never made one of these things before.
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Re: The Orangerie - glulams arriving today

Postby Pinch » 01 Sep 2018, 12:22

Damn good going Roger. 8-)

Quite a structure, and all of those MT's and mitred corners are looking the dog's dingly-danglies.

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Re: The Orangerie - glulams arriving today

Postby Rod » 01 Sep 2018, 13:33

Neither have I Roger but do they hang off hangers?

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Re: The Orangerie - glulams arriving today

Postby Coley » 01 Sep 2018, 13:44

Rod wrote:Neither have I Roger but do they hang off hangers?

Rod
Just looked at the drawing further up and from what I can make out there's a lot of hangers. Have you got a clearer drawing Roger? I can't pick out the writing.

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Re: The Orangerie - glulams arriving today

Postby 9fingers » 01 Sep 2018, 14:18

Roger. I've printed off your drawing and the first thing that stikes me is you have 2 off at 4000mm long and 4 off at 4124mm I wonder if you have mixed these up on your trial fit?
There are also a pair of J3s at 4124mm long and these are only 2mm narrower at 45 mm wide instead of 47 for the others so another source of confusion.

HTH
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Re: The Orangerie - glulams arriving today

Postby RogerS » 01 Sep 2018, 14:49

The 4124 ones will sit on the bearers and then be nailed into the rim beams....no issues there. They have the J prefix.

It's the 4000 ones (and other smaller sizes) prefixed K that confuse me. There are hangers at the junction with the longest glulam. The other end of the joists sit on the bearers and nailed to the rim beam. Guess I'll have to wait until Monday
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Re: The Orangerie - glulams arriving today

Postby 9fingers » 01 Sep 2018, 15:19

Looks like the short k2s fit inbetween the j2s like a noggin along the ring beam as they are 47mm shorter than the j2 spacing
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Re: The Orangerie - glulams arriving today

Postby 9fingers » 01 Sep 2018, 15:41

The other short k pieces are also noggin like I think but a bit stumped what the k1s are for at the moment.
Does not seem to be anything for upstand that the lantern has to sit on?

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Re: The Orangerie - glulams arriving today

Postby RogerS » 02 Sep 2018, 08:49

Hi Bob

I think you've nailed it. When you know where to look you can see the shorter K's

k noggins.png
(60.94 KiB)


TBH I don't see what added-value they give me since the rim beam is just alongside them and the ends of the shorter J's are fixed to that. In fact, given the positioning, they are a pain since I was proposing to tweak the spacing of those shorter J's to match the size of the OSB board that's coming - to minimise unnecessary cuts and wastage.

But, as you say, the longer ones don't feature anywhere.
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Re: The Orangerie - glulams arriving today

Postby RogerS » 02 Sep 2018, 09:06

So - close of play yesterday - we got all the major sections roughly in place. The downside was that my helper is a superb stone-waller but not experienced in doing this sort of roofing-woodie stuff. My error in forgetting that and not double-checking. As a result the first double-glulam was put together with an offset between them and I spotted this too late before I glued'n'screwed them together. Need to investigate today to remedy. Dimensions of lantern opening are not critical and so cutting a little off the ends is not a problem. Actually finding a safe way to do it is !

Bought some of those ring-shank nails and gave up with them. Such a PITA to hammer in, so much effort. So I've used screws.

And then the rain came. Weather so unpredictable here. I need to slap on a coat of LOP (linseed oil paint) and to answer Coley...yup, still like it. I've been slopping it on every bare surface that I can find as protection. Mission impossible though with yesterdays work and timescale :( Today, if the weather holds, I can paint any exposed surfaces although I won't be able to paint the undersides of the rim beams.

Planning ahead, for fixing all those short J's and K's and given the weather, the job needs to be squared away ASAP.

CDA (Chief Design Authority) has said she prefers the glulams painted which has a lot of benefits not least of which is not having to keep trying to cover over the bare glulams at the end of each day to guard against rain. Once I can get some LOP on then that will protect them. The other is a financial benefit as I'd bought some hidden fixings as if the glulams were bare then I'd prefer not to see any metal fixings. Eye-wateringly expensive. Now they can be returned.

But speed is of the essence and I'm seriously considering going into town to buy a Paslode so I can get all the framing stuff up today. Monday is a washout. Tuesday the OSB arrives. I'd like to get the OSB up and fibre-glassed over by the end of the day.

Photos to come later.
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Re: The Orangerie - glulams arriving today

Postby RogerS » 02 Sep 2018, 18:41

So first job was to correct the overhang on one of the long glulam pairs. The problem was 'How'. Ideally I needed to lift the end of the 61kg glulam completely out of the hangar, keeping the other end secured, holding it vertically and then sawing off the overhang. A challenge for just me. But Necessity being the Mother.....

First put a reserve support at the other end in case the glulam popped out of the hanger. I didn't think it would as the amount of movement in an upward direction(resulting in the bottom moving away from the other glulam)as a result of lifting the other end would be negligible given the length of the glulam.

Image

A similar support at the other end, a block of wood to give some initial lift (I'd decided to cut the overhang off little by little to minimise the amount of time the glulam would be out of the hanger) plus a lateral support at the top that would let me clamp the glulam to.

Image

It was a struggle lifting the glulam that little bit and being able to slide the raiser block in, I can tell you. I then used the Fein to remove the topmost part of the overhang. But I knew that the raiser block was too dodgy to go any higher as trying to lift the glulam and slide in the block was difficult. So ....

Image

and that was as high as I needed to go. Yet another occasion when the Fein came into its own. That little tool has dug me out of so many holes.

Next up was adjusting the alignment of the glulams and the rim boards. This would entail removing the temporary screws holding the rim board and so I needed some vertical support to stop it falling off while I made the adjustments.

Image

Once I'd got the rim beam in the right place, it was a question of raising the shorter glulam slightly and Acro'ing it over to once more touch the rim beam.

Image

I also remembered that I had a 5m staging board which with the two towers and their platforms meant I could easily tackle almost the whole length of the rim beam and glulam. Because by this time I'd gone out and bought the Paslode. I'dforgotten what a great bit of kit itwas (once I'd put the nails in the right place :oops: ). So, so quick to bang in the nails every 150mm to secure the rim beam to the bearer, made even easier by the staging board.

Image

Then a coat of LOP on as much as I could as I was running out of paint.

Image

One SNAFU was that I didn't realise that the hanger was wider than the glulam. So I ended up putting it in the wrong place leaving this gap. I'll figure out some sort of cosmetic cover-up when I move 'inside' the orangerie.

Image

Coley asked about LOP earlier on in the thread. I think it's still a great paint but it does have one drawback which I call 'transference'. LOP is great on bare wood and dries quickly. Subsequent coats need to be put on wafer thin if they are to dry in a reasonable timeframe. The trouble is all the other things that invariably get some paint on. Such as the outside of the tin. The paintbrush handle. I wear nitrile gloves when I paint. These get liberally covered in paint. Which never dries. So then you o to pick up your screwdriver to open another tin. Which results in paint on the screwdriver. Which never dries. So then you forget about the paint on the screwdriver and go to pick it up. Transferring wet paint to your hands. Which then gets transferred to the next tool you pick up.. and so on.
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Re: The Orangerie - glulams arriving today

Postby RogerS » 03 Sep 2018, 09:31

Confirmation that the K's are the noggins as suggested but they're not sure why they've been spec'd in this situation. The guy who designed the roof is away on holiday. The K1's are surplus to requirements and a glitch in the software.

So when he comes back I'll be having a wee chat to see about costings.

The one potential benefit of the K's along the top as noggins is that it gives a bearing surface for whatever I end up putting up as the ceiling. So will probably put them in but will adjust to suit aforementioned OSB3 spacings.

But nothing happening today because ......well, need I say more :(
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Re: The Orangerie - glulams arriving today

Postby 9fingers » 03 Sep 2018, 09:45

RogerS wrote:Confirmation that the K's are the noggins as suggested but they're not sure why they've been spec'd in this situation. The guy who designed the roof is away on holiday. The K1's are surplus to requirements and a glitch in the software.

So when he comes back I'll be having a wee chat to see about costings.

The one potential benefit of the K's along the top as noggins is that it gives a bearing surface for whatever I end up putting up as the ceiling. So will probably put them in but will adjust to suit aforementioned OSB3 spacings.

But nothing happening today because ......well, need I say more :(


A further advantage that I see for the k1 noggins is ease of assembly to define the spacing of the short rafters. So once the first short rafter correct position is defined then it is simply fit one noggin, fit the rafter hard against it and so on. the hangers at the other end of the rafter left loose and then go back to fix them with a piece of scrap cut as a spacer.
I've not done a detailed analysis but I'd have thought that fitting your OSB from the centre towards each end that the 600 centres would be ideal and leaves any unusual cutting to the ends which are non standard pitch anyway.

Lovely sunny say down south again and no rain forecast for the next 2 weeks but I won't mention that. :lol:

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