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Sunburst Dining Table - WIP. *** NOW FINISHED ***

This is where we don't want anything but evidence of your finest wood butchering in all its glorious, and photograph laden glory. Bring your finished products or WIP's, we love them all, so long as there's pictures, and plenty of 'em!

Re: Sunburst Dining Table - WIP. Top side complete.

Postby RogerS » 29 Dec 2018, 08:14

Roger, that centre point is first class. Truly quality work. :eusa-clap:

I've been on a veneering course and know just how difficult it is to get things like those points in perfect unison.
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Re: Sunburst Dining Table - WIP. Top side complete.

Postby RogerM » 18 Mar 2019, 17:44

Contrary to popular belief, this is not an abandoned project! There was a long layoff over the Xmas/New Year, followed by 2 weeks walking on Gran Canaria (highly recommended), but now back in full swing. The next task was to make the apron. This is laminated up with 8 strips of air dried ash 60mm x 3mm thick, with a facing veneer of 1.5mm cherry. This was covered in the “Calculating Springback” thread, so if you are familiar with that you may want to skip this bit as it covers the same ground to keep it all in one place.

I made a former out of some old MDF and covered the “business side” with parcel tape to make sure the laminations didn’t stick to it. The plan is to have the apron in 3 parts with joins that coincide with the legs.

First the ash is glued up using cascamite in preference to Titebond as the open time is greater to make clamping up a less stressful exercise. The resultant assembly is left overnight to set.

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7205
(300.59 KiB)


According to the springback formula, with 8 laminations the springback should be about 5mm, which it is!

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7206
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7207
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The facing cherry veneer is then glued on using the vacuum bag.

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7389
(234.67 KiB)


The blue tape is to hold the veneer in place until the vacuum has pulled the whole lot tight.

Next job is to make the lipping for the edge of the table. I toyed with the idea of using pieces cut from the solid, but it would have been horribly wasteful, so I decided to laminate it up in the same way as the apron, with the circumference completed in 3 sections. The table top is 28mm thick, so I cut 21 strips 32mm x 3mm x 1600mm, so far as possible keeping them consecutive from the same plank for consistency of grain and colour. Each was run through the drum sanded taking just enough off to remove the bandsaw marks. Each of the segments will have 7 laminations.

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7390
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I made up another former and clamp up the strips just as with the apron.

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7394
(390.95 KiB)


I have left cutting the table down to its final size to prevent damage to the edge, but now it’s time to commit, and this is yet another wind up. The further I get into the project the more time I have invested and the higher the stakes. I use exactly the same technique as before with the trim router on a trammel.

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7396
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I use a 6mm down shear cutter to penetrate about 20mm in maybe 3 passes. Then I move the router out by about 10mm and repeat with a larger straight cutter, leaving a groove about 10mm wide. Then I cut the waste off with a jigsaw close to the outer edge of the cut.

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7397
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7398
(230.17 KiB)


This leaves a lip on the underside of the table which I trim freehand with the trim router using the trim base and the 6mm down shear cutter, having first turned the table over so that I can cut from the underside..

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7399
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7402
(239.35 KiB)


Now to cut an accurate scarf joint in the edging strips. After much head scratching the solution was simple. I screwed the former I had used to glue up the edging strip to a piece of scrap MFC with one straight edge, and clamped that to the fence on my SCMS. I set the blade at 55 deg which is the maximum angle I can get, clamped the edging back onto the former, and made the cut.

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7551
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7553
(288.64 KiB)


The cut is made in the approximate centre of the former so that there is space to attach an edging piece from both sides.

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7556
(354.84 KiB)


These are then glued to the edge of the table one at a time using TB2 and and old strap that was originally used to hold a tumble dryer on top of a washing machine, and which ratchets up drum tight. There is a piece of scrap behind the ratchet to prevent it denting the table edge.

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7557
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It appears that I have reached the maximum number of photos that can be loaded in one post, so to be continued ..........
Last edited by RogerM on 31 Mar 2019, 19:41, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Sunburst Dining Table - WIP. Top side complete.

Postby Malc2098 » 18 Mar 2019, 17:52

Impressive work.

I also like the bookcase and drinks cabinet in the working area!
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Re: Sunburst Dining Table - WIP. Top side complete.

Postby RogerM » 18 Mar 2019, 18:08

..... here!

When the next edging strip is glued on I use the same method, but add a sash clamp to bridge the scarf joint to hold it is tight. The second clamp was actually put on first to hold the edge firmly in position so that the clamp across the joint didn’t make the edge slip whilst it was being clamped down. That may sound “a bit Irish” but hopefully it makes sense!

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7561
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7562
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The final piece was a bit tricky to fit as there is absolutely no margin for error in cutting the scarf joints (which I did as I went rather than all together). In this case, the sash clamps were placed across both scarf joints. The blue tape is to hold the edge roughly in position whilst I get the ratchet band in place, and then also to hold the ratchet band in place before it is tightened up. The piece of scrap is placed behind the ratchet to stop it denting the edging strip.

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7564
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Finally, the edge needs to be cut flush with the top. I first trimmed the top and bottom to about 0.5mm of the surface with a router ……

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7565
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7567
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…. taking the last 0.5mm down with a card scraper, which was a bit laborious, but surprising quick. Then I attached the trammel for the last time and using the down spiral cutter I took a whisker off all the way around to be sure I had a perfect circle and no lump or bumps in the edge. No photos of this I’m afraid. Finally I rounded the edge with a 19mm radius half round bearing guided cutter.

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7578
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No maths behind the selection of a 19mm radius cutter apart from the fact that I already had one and seemed fine for the job! :lol: As always, I started with somewhere it wouldn’t show if I made a mistake, and thankfully I did. I started with rounding off the underside, and halfway round the bearing came off the cutter. Aaaaggghhh! I thought I was checking every variable, but checking the tightness of the bearing bolt was not one of them!

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151954
(235.77 KiB)


I trimmed the edges of the “wound” flat with a chisel and glued in an offcut from the edging strip.

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9570
(329.54 KiB)


This was then taken down with a block plane and a final cut taken with the router. On the completed table it’s hard to find, and it is on the underside, so no real issue.

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7573
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7581
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Next I rough fit the apron. I draw a circle the same radius as the apron on the underside of the table with a beam compass …..

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7579
(227.94 KiB)


…. and screw blocks just touching the inside of the line. Then I simply screw through the blocks into the skirt. The ends of the skirt are joined with some cherry blocks.

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7697
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7698
(220.24 KiB)


That’s the top more or less complete apart from final finishing. I'm well in to building the base so will post progress on that soon.
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Re: Sunburst Dining Table - WIP. Top side complete.

Postby Andyp » 18 Mar 2019, 18:21

Brilliant Roger and excellent recovery.
I feel better about the state of my workshop each time I get a glimpse of yours.
I do not think therefore I do not am.

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Re: Sunburst Dining Table - WIP. Top side complete.

Postby RogerM » 18 Mar 2019, 18:24

Malc2098 wrote:Impressive work.

I also like the bookcase and drinks cabinet in the working area!


Thanks Malc. I can't take credit for the bookcase and drinks cabinet. That predates me taking up furniture building. I wish it had an oiled finish rather than a sprayed acrylic finish, and I would definitely have a go at building it if we were looking for one now!

Andyp wrote:Brilliant Roger and excellent recovery.
I feel better about the state of my workshop each time I get a glimpse of yours.

:lol: I know. It's towards the end of the project and a massive clearout is needed before I start the next one. It's getting bad even by my standards! :oops:
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Re: Sunburst Dining Table - WIP. Top side complete.

Postby 9fingers » 18 Mar 2019, 18:27

Roger, I am sooo mpressed by this project both in the quality of the write up and your attention to detail is phenominal.

Maybe you should produce a brochure to show to anyone new who visits and sees your table so that can really appreciate the achievement!

Bob
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Re: Sunburst Dining Table - WIP. Top and apron complete.

Postby DaveL » 18 Mar 2019, 19:37

Very nicely done, thanks for the write up.
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Re: Sunburst Dining Table - WIP. Top side complete.

Postby Andyp » 18 Mar 2019, 19:51

9fingers wrote:Maybe you should produce a brochure to show to anyone new who visits and sees your table so that can really appreciate the achievement!
Bob


Great idea. I made one for the settle that Pinch made for me. I used his wip posts and photos, edited them a bit and got a book made online.

I can dig out the details of who I used if you are interested.
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Re: Sunburst Dining Table - WIP. Top and apron complete.

Postby Jimmy Mack » 18 Mar 2019, 20:18

It's looking great, Roger. Excellent job on the lipping. Rotten luck with the bearing, but nice recovery, I've never had this happen myself... So I'll be checking them bearings in the future!

Looking forward to the next stage

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Re: Sunburst Dining Table - WIP. Top and apron complete.

Postby Malc2098 » 18 Mar 2019, 21:01

Brilliant!
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Re: Sunburst Dining Table - WIP. Top and apron complete.

Postby Rod » 18 Mar 2019, 21:52

Excellent work

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Re: Sunburst Dining Table - WIP. Top and apron complete.

Postby Woodbloke » 19 Mar 2019, 22:53

Fantastic stuff going on there...nice bit of recovery on the mangled underside :D - Rob
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Re: Sunburst Dining Table - WIP. Top and apron complete.

Postby fiveeyes » 22 Mar 2019, 00:46

I'll say it yet again, that is damn fine work. Makes a wood hacker like me just a bit envious. :obscene-drinkingcheers:
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Re: Sunburst Dining Table - *** NOW FINISHED ***

Postby RogerM » 29 Mar 2019, 21:20

We're on the home straight now! The base is going to be a a simple 3 legged affair inspired by George Johnson whose work with expanding dining tables I have always admired. As a matter of courtesy I emailed George to let him know of my intentions and he couldn’t have been more helpful, so if you get to read this George, many thanks for your very useful suggestions!

I still needed to make sure that what I had in mind was going to look right, would be sufficiently rigid, and I also suspected that there would have to be a deceptively large number of subtleties that I hadn’t appreciated, so I ran up a mockup in softwood first before butchering some expensive cherry. I started with some simple templates run up in scrap ply so that each component would be repeatable.

Here’s my first attempt half assembled. .

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mock up
(397.91 KiB)


Having mounted the table on top, I concluded that I was on the right track but both the legs and feet were too chunky, so I slimmed both of them down just on one leg and foot to satisfy myself. That seemed to work. Those with an eye for engineering may say that the arched feet will have an unacceptably high bending load where they meet in the middle, and also where the mortise and tenon joins the feet, so will that central joint be strong enough?

Tests showed that it would be!

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strength test 1
(188.95 KiB)


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Strength test 2
(399.5 KiB)


So is my joinery that strong? Maybe, but could be that the strength can be attributed to this little beauty made in 50mm x 10mm steel by our local fabricators :)

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steel brace
(398.21 KiB)


This is let in to the underside of the feet, and the bolts go up into the legs, through the mortise and tenon and into the dowel nuts which will be covered with a plug. All the bending load is being taken by the steel plate and I don’t think it’s going to go anywhere.

Time to repeat in cherry. First of all I make some templates in scrap MDF and plywood, taking the shape from the mock up. All the joints are cut whilst the stock is still square to make it easier to measure and cut. The central join in the feet is cut on the SCMS. The steel plate rises at 6 deg from the horizontal, so I simply set the blade 6 deg from the vertical, and 30 deg horizontally and bingo - job done.

Oh don’t you just wish it was that easy :) . Whilst that was it in theory, in practice I had to nibble at it on the SCMS 8 or 10 times until I got it right.

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cutting centre mitres
(245.53 KiB)


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centre mitres
(323.81 KiB)


Fortunately I had anticipated the problem and had cut the feet 30mm over length to allow me to have multiple “bites of the cherry” (pun). Doh!

I wanted the ends of the feet to be curved as though they were part of a circle, so I made a very simple jig. First I screwed a piece of scrap that was the same width as the mitre channel on my bandsaw table to the underside of a piece MFC. Then I screwed another piece to the topside with a shallow notch in the edge which determined the length of the foot. I tilted the table by 10 deg, clamped the jig to the table, put the point of the foot in the notch and simply rotated the workpiece through the blade as though it was the hand of a clock. Simples! Here it is in action on the mock-up version. The recess on the underside is to house the steel plate and cut on the router table.

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cutting foot ends
(231.14 KiB)


Next I attached the template to the workpieces using double sided tape and shaped it with a bearing guided cutter on the router table.

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profiling foot with template
(276.93 KiB)


The mortise and tenons on the legs were simply cut by hand, and the length and angle of the M&T shoulders determined from the mock-up legs.

Another template, drawn from the mock-up determined the extent of the chamfers that were taken off each foot and leg. Having drawn around the template, the bulk of the waste was cut off freehand with the band saw, and then taken down to the line by hand using a microplane.

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shaping feet with microplane
(322.09 KiB)


Time for a glue up. I put a domino in each face of the central joint more to index the surfaces than for any other reason, loosely screwed and bolted the steel plate in place, and then clamped the whole lot together. I had experimented with several ways of clamping up, and the simplest and most reliable method is the one shown.

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clamping feet
(257.43 KiB)


Before finally glueing the legs into the feet, I rough fitted the legs in place and bolted the tops in to their final position. The wooden blocks screwed to the underside of the table are temporary. I’ll beef them up in cherry when I’m happy with the fit. This went according to plan, so the legs were glued into the feet and the bolts through the steel plate up into the legs were tightened up and the hole for the dowel nuts plugged. The blue tape is to mask the wood around the joint so that any squeeze out doesn’t soak into the wood and affect the finish.

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glueing legs
(248.1 KiB)


And all of a sudden that’s the woodwork finished! Yay! Time to think about a finish.

My original plan was to use a resin finish like a bar polish, or Rustins Plastic Coating which is absolutely bomb proof as on my original side table test pieces. However, whilst bomb proof, it is a little like putting wood in a plastic bag, and in the event of damage needs to be completely stripped and refinished. It also dries quite fast and I was a little concerned that it might be difficult to get an even finish on a large area. Time to consider something else.

In the end I decided to test a Polyvine water based lacquer, Osmo Raw, Osmo finishing oil and Fiddes clear hardwax. I still had the test pieces from when I was trying out various glues for the sunburst, so I divided them into 4 and used a different finish on each quarter.

To my eye at least, the Clear Lacquer turned the cherry a greyish brown, which I didn’t like. The Osmo Raw was the palest finish on the maple which was great, but it completely killed the colour of the cherry, making the finish look cloudy. The Osmo Top Oil gave the cherry a lovely honey colour, and the Fiddes was similar. However, the Osmo Top was the most yellowing on the maple.

In fairness to Osmo, they do warn against using Osmo Raw on darker woods, and they also advocate just one coat is enough on pale woods, which should then have subsequent coats of Osmo PolyX or Osmo Top Oil. I tried this over the Osmo Raw on the pale test piece and it barely darkened it at all. But how resilient to marking are they? Only one way to find out.

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damage test 1
(286.42 KiB)


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damage test 2
(298.35 KiB)


I put a small puddle of red wine, milk, coffee, tea and water on each finish for both the cherry and the maple, and then added a cup of hot (but not boiling) water which sat in a some spilt coffee. I left this for an hour before wiping it clean. All 4 finishes shrugged this off, so nothing to choose on resistance to marking.

So the final decision is Osmo Raw on the maple, followed by the Osmo recommendation of 4 thin coats of Clear Top Oil (Satin). Not only should this be durable, but it will keep the maple pale, and in the event of any marks in future it can be patched easily, unlike a resin or lacquered finish.

I masked the edge of the maple as shown.

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masking maple
(281.49 KiB)


I then applied the Osmo Raw very thinly with a cloth, and as soon as I had finished applying it I removed the masking tape to minimise any detectable ridge caused by a meniscus at the edge. Then LEAVE IT ALONE UNTIL DRY! On a test piece I had tried feathering the edge with a clean cloth, but when the Top Oil is applied, even the slightest smear of Osmo Raw on the cherry shows through. So LEAVE IT ALONE! Just to be safe I threw away all cloths that had been used to apply the Osmo Raw so that I didn’t use one by mistake on the cherry, and had I used a brush for the Raw I would have used a different one for the Top Oil.

Once dry I ran a scraper very lightly along each edge to remove any high points on the maple, denibbed and then applied the Top Oil all over. After 4 coats, denibbing between each with a 160 grade pad, it just remained to re-attach the apron and legs and put it into its’ new home.

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finished 1
(321.18 KiB)


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finished 2
(283.71 KiB)


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plan view
(303.28 KiB)


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side view
(296.37 KiB)


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finished
(273.43 KiB)


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ready for dinner
(309.6 KiB)


I’m not unhappy with the result. It does the job it was intended to do and fits in well with the rest of the kitchen. This project took me further outside my woodwork comfort zone than I have ever been and the learning curve was not only near vertical, but I had great fun climbing it as well. Sometimes you’ve just got to go for it!

Anyway - if you’ve got this far and not lost the will to live, thanks for reading.
Last edited by RogerM on 31 Mar 2019, 19:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sunburst Dining Table - WIP. *** NOW FINISHED ***

Postby Malc2098 » 29 Mar 2019, 22:13

Proper job!!!!!
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Re: Sunburst Dining Table - WIP. *** NOW FINISHED ***

Postby Jimmy Mack » 29 Mar 2019, 22:18

That's lovely Roger, an absolute beauty and an excellent write up too.

Top marks on the thorough R&D with the finishing ... and not just diving in.

Will bring years of pleasure I'm sure.

Well done.



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Re: Sunburst Dining Table - WIP. *** NOW FINISHED ***

Postby Mike G » 29 Mar 2019, 22:41

That's really beautiful. I hope to hell that no-one drops anything on it. I'd have been tempted to wrap it in the armour of something like Rustins Plastic Coating, just to be sure, and to save palpitations every time anyone went near it with a mug of hot tea.

Fantastic work, and an excellent write-up, too.
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Re: Sunburst Dining Table - WIP. *** NOW FINISHED ***

Postby Woodbloke » 29 Mar 2019, 23:13

Fandabby Roger!

Very interested to read about the Osmo Raw. I have some sample sachets or Raw as well as some Polyvine mat wax finish stuff on order from Ax. I'm still trying to play around with a suitable finish for my stash of Olive Ash, which as you know will have the clear pale coloured timber on the outside and a highly figured, swirly brown patterned grain towards the centre of the board, with no clear delineation 'twixt the two. It's a bit of a conundrum to work out which finish, or combination of finishes, is going to suit the material.
So far I've tried the satin version of the Polyvine on a small sample which looks fine but I'm leaning towards more of a mat finish these days. Decisions, decisions.......- Rob
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Re: Sunburst Dining Table - WIP. *** NOW FINISHED ***

Postby fiveeyes » 30 Mar 2019, 01:52

For me, that is about as good as good gets.
Absolutely beautiful, great skills. Particularly liked your approach to problem solving, and the testing of finishes. Well done.
Darn fine writing, too.
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Re: Sunburst Dining Table - WIP. *** NOW FINISHED ***

Postby Andyp » 30 Mar 2019, 08:09

I’m not unhappy with the result


Yeah right. I bet you are as chuffed as is possible. And so you should be.
I do not think therefore I do not am.

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Re: Sunburst Dining Table - WIP. *** NOW FINISHED ***

Postby TrimTheKing » 30 Mar 2019, 09:13

Very nice indeed mate and great write up.
Cheers
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Re: Sunburst Dining Table - WIP. *** NOW FINISHED ***

Postby Robert » 30 Mar 2019, 10:39

Think its all been said above so I can only add the same thoughts.

Congratulations on a beautiful result!
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Re: Sunburst Dining Table - WIP. *** NOW FINISHED ***

Postby RogerM » 30 Mar 2019, 12:02

Thanks for all the kind comments guys.

RogerS wrote:Roger, that centre point is first class. Truly quality work. :eusa-clap:

I've been on a veneering course and know just how difficult it is to get things like those points in perfect unison.


Thanks Roger. I found that the easiest way was to glue up the segments in pairs. It's relatively easy to get a good point on each pair, and then take great care matching the pairs up. Don't be mean with the tape!

9fingers wrote:Roger, I am sooo mpressed by this project both in the quality of the write up and your attention to detail is phenominal.

Maybe you should produce a brochure to show to anyone new who visits and sees your table so that can really appreciate the achievement!

Bob


Thanks Bob. I think that maybe comes from me being a skinflint when it comes to wasting materials. I only just had enough birdseye maple, and a cock-up with that would have been catastrophic. When I'm in learning mode, as is the case on virtually every aspect of this build, I find it lowers the stress levels if I have a practice run first. Helps keep my ticker from over revving! :lol:

Jimmy Mack wrote:It's looking great, Roger. Excellent job on the lipping. Rotten luck with the bearing, but nice recovery, I've never had this happen myself... So I'll be checking them bearings in the future!


It was the first time a bearing has come off for me too Jim. I think I may have had it off (so to speak :lol: ) previously so maybe I didn't tighten it back up enough. Will always check in future.

Woodbloke wrote:Fantastic stuff going on there...nice bit of recovery on the mangled underside :D - Rob


Thanks Rob. It just goes to show that my approach in doing the bits that don't show first paid off in spades on this occasion. With the table the right side up I struggle to find the repair now.

Jimmy Mack wrote:That's lovely Roger, an absolute beauty and an excellent write up too.
Top marks on the thorough R&D with the finishing ... and not just diving in.
Will bring years of pleasure I'm sure.
Well done.


Thanks Jim. There seemed to be little to choose between the finishes so far as durability is concerned. Time will tell!

Mike G wrote:That's really beautiful. I hope to hell that no-one drops anything on it. I'd have been tempted to wrap it in the armour of something like Rustins Plastic Coating, just to be sure, and to save palpitations every time anyone went near it with a mug of hot tea.

Fantastic work, and an excellent write-up, too.


Thanks Mike. I know what you mean. This is intended for everyday use and I very nearly went with the Rustins Plastic Coating as it has worked well on the practise side tables I made and which have been in use for 15 months now without any signs of wear. It's just that I doubted my ability to get a really even finish over such a wide area with a product that seemed to dry very quickly. Also in the event of any damage it can't be repaired easily, so it would need stripping back to bare wood. I know of your aversion to Osmo, but based on my admittedly rather superficial tests, it does seem to be very hard wearing, and it can be patched without stripping it back. Never-the-less, we are keeping a small stack of coasters on the table and they WILL be used! We also have a soft table protector which will be covered with a PVC tablecloth for when the grandchildren are visiting!

Time will tell whether I have made the right choice. However, with veneers between 1.5mm - 2mm thick, if it turns out to be marking too easily, I can strip it back with a random orbital sander and revert to the Plastic coating or bar polish if I have to without any fear of sanding through to the substrate. I'm really hoping that isn't necessary though!

Woodbloke wrote:Fandabby Roger!

Very interested to read about the Osmo Raw. I have some sample sachets or Raw as well as some Polyvine mat wax finish stuff on order from Ax. I'm still trying to play around with a suitable finish for my stash of Olive Ash, which as you know will have the clear pale coloured timber on the outside and a highly figured, swirly brown patterned grain towards the centre of the board, with no clear delineation 'twixt the two. It's a bit of a conundrum to work out which finish, or combination of finishes, is going to suit the material.
So far I've tried the satin version of the Polyvine on a small sample which looks fine but I'm leaning towards more of a mat finish these days. Decisions, decisions.......- Rob


Thanks Rob. The Osmo Raw experience was interesting, and once again goes to show the value of testing on scrap first before committing. It really does do a very good job of keeping pale wood pale - in this instance the BEM - but it totally destroys the figure in darker wood like cherry. It looks as though you're peering at it through a fog, and in fairness to Osmo, they do warn against using it on darker hardwoods. I was amazed at how little of the Raw is needed to keep the maple pale - just wipe on a single coat and wipe it off again! But be warned that even the slightest contamination on adjacent darker wood will show clearly when you put a clear oil on over the top. It looks like you've spilt some white primer on it and not wiped it off properly - it's that obvious!

fiveeyes wrote:For me, that is about as good as good gets.
Absolutely beautiful, great skills. Particularly liked your approach to problem solving, and the testing of finishes. Well done.
Darn fine writing, too.


Thanks Fiveeyes. Whilst I admit that it's not too shabby, I'm sure that you would find some mistakes if you looked hard enough. I've really enjoyed the write-up too - it does make you think about what you are doing, and I've found that I frequently referred back to my original thread to remind myself how I tackled things. Amazing how you forget!
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RogerM
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Re: Sunburst Dining Table - WIP. *** NOW FINISHED ***

Postby MY63 » 30 Mar 2019, 12:39

What a fantastic read and a brilliant table.
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