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Mike's extension & renovation (WC & Study oak, xmas)

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Mike's extension & renovation (WC & Study oak, xmas)

Postby Mike G » 02 Sep 2014, 22:45

I've not said much about this, because we were awaiting planning permission. Well, against the officer's recommendation, and by the skin of our teeth, (6 votes to 5, with 1 abstention), we received permission at a council meeting this evening. This is a really major project, with an extension nearly the size of the existing house, then a strip-to-the-frame of the existing before rebuilding.

This is why I was in a hurry to get the workshop finished, (and maybe a bit stroppier than I might have been normally earlier).

I'll post some drawings here shortly, but this evening I am a very relieved chap.
Last edited by Mike G on 01 Jan 2017, 17:39, edited 189 times in total.
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Re: Mike's major house extension & renovation thread

Postby RogerS » 02 Sep 2014, 22:51

Many many congratulations, Mike.

I'll be looking forward to the 'build' WIP !
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Re: Mike's major house extension & renovation thread

Postby stephen.wood125 » 02 Sep 2014, 22:59

Congratulations must have been a lot of burnt sage to get by planners!

Can't wait for the thread- knowing the speed you work at it will be done by October! :lol:

No seriously though, will be watching this with great interest!

Thanks
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Re: Mike's major house extension & renovation thread

Postby Mike G » 02 Sep 2014, 23:15

stephen.wood125 wrote:.......Can't wait for the thread- knowing the speed you work at it will be done by October! :lol:........
Yep, it will....... but whether that's Oct 2015 or Oct 2016 it's hard to say at the moment ;).
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Re: Mike's major house extension & renovation thread

Postby TrimTheKing » 02 Sep 2014, 23:46

Great news, congratulations Mike.

Looking forward to it already.

Cheers
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Re: Mike's major house extension & renovation thread

Postby Wizard9999 » 02 Sep 2014, 23:49

Congrats Mike, sounds like it was a close one!

Just to balance things out, I have spent the whole evening at a council meeting hearing why because my locall council had their local plan rejected by govt. inspectors there is free for all for local land owners and the guy who owns the field behind us now stands a very good chance of getting consent to build 100 houses.

Like others I very much look forward to hearing more about your plans - I'm expecting a lot of interesting stuff to come, but don't forget to finish the workshop first!

Terry.
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Re: Mike's major house extension & renovation thread

Postby 9fingers » 03 Sep 2014, 06:42

Can I add my congratulations too Mike. Must be quite a relief for you.

Triggered off by Terry's comment...
Our local plan (Test Valley) has only just gone to the inspectors. It contains huge housing expansion plans -1300 near me and 350 a couple of miles away and all to the financial benefit of a single landowner for both! It has taken a long time and lots of public meetings before it was passed at local level. We are a small country town and just don't have the infrastructure to support the extra population. The plan for example contains no new schools or doctors!
Most residents want neither the density of housing or a free for all so i really don't know what I would like the outcome of the inspector to be.

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Re: Mike's major house extension & renovation thread

Postby Andyp » 03 Sep 2014, 07:11

Yep, can't wait to see you attack those fancy scarf joints.

BTW Planning issues continue here too. Even in our wee village dozens of new houses going up yet school canteen can't cope already and the infants school is overcrowded - no plans of course to increase either
cheers

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Re: Mike's major house extension & renovation thread

Postby 9fingers » 03 Sep 2014, 07:18

Andyp wrote:Yep, can't wait to see you attack those fancy scarf joints.

BTW Planning issues continue here too. Even in our wee village dozens of new houses going up yet school canteen can't cope already and the infants school is overcrowded - no plans of course to increase either


Andy, We were surprised to see the amount of new build houses on our journey from Caen to Bayeux yesterday. Obviously some money about despite what we hear of the austerity programme in France - gov't resigning over it etc

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Re: Mike's major house extension & renovation thread

Postby Wizard9999 » 03 Sep 2014, 09:15

Mike

Sorry if i have diverted this thread away from your good news. I have therefore started a new thread on planning and housing development in the retreat so this thread can return to its original purpose.

Terry.
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Re: Mike's major house extension & renovation thread

Postby Mike G » 03 Sep 2014, 10:13

Thanks all.

Yep planning policy can be more than a little opaque. In my case, I negotiated with the Planning Officers prior to the application, and made all the alterations they asked for. I was therefore somewhat surprised, if not a little irked, to have them recommend refusal..........on the grounds that the extension was too deep, despite having written to me previously that their only concern was the height. One man, 2 opinions.

I will be finishing the workshop first, albeit without completing the overhangs, nor slating the roof, before I start work on the new extension. The principle is that we build the new extension whilst living in the old part of the house. Once the extension is finished, we move into that, and strip the old part to its frame. Once that is re-built we knock the two together and live in the whole building.
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Re: Mike's major house extension & renovation thread

Postby Mike G » 03 Sep 2014, 10:44

Here are the Planning drawings, stripped of addresses etc.......

Firstly, Plans, with Existing at the top, and Proposed below:

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Then Existing Elevations:

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The finally Proposed Elevations:

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There is a lot of detail not in Planning drawings, particularly of the internals. The outside it pretty well covered by the drawings, but the inside is going to be all oak framing with infill panels of herringbone brickwork, plaster, and leaded lights. You can see that the extension is in principle a "double pile", where basically a copy of the existing cottage is built behind it, with parallel rooves. This has been complicated by the planners in this instance, because despite all the neighbouring properties being of this form with full length rear 2 storey elements, they wanted me to shorten the roofline of the extension. I achieved this by putting a single storey outshot over the lounge, which is a bit of a compromise and will certainly complicate the structure.

You may also notice that I will be removing the existing chimney. The house isn't listed (it was probably built around 1700 to 1750), and was really badly renovated in the 1970s. Someone rendered over the inglenook with a the hardest sand/ cement render I have ever come across, thus ruining all the brickwork permanently. They also took away the bressumer. So, I will take the chimney down, (its location was a damn nuisance anyway), and re-use the bricks (turning them over so that the wrecked face is hidden) in building a new fireplace in the new lounge.
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Re: Mike's major house extension & renovation thread

Postby TrimTheKing » 03 Sep 2014, 10:51

Looks good Mike

You also landed a title with that Mansion…? ;)

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Re: Mike's major house extension & renovation thread

Postby Mike G » 03 Sep 2014, 10:58

That 3.6 metre deep mansion, you mean? :D
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Re: Mike's major house extension & renovation thread

Postby TrimTheKing » 03 Sep 2014, 11:13

Mike G wrote:That 3.6 metre deep mansion, you mean? :D


That's current size surely…?
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Re: Mike's major house extension & renovation thread

Postby Wizard9999 » 03 Sep 2014, 11:28

Mike

Irrespective of size, looks to me like it will be a very handsome house when you have finished.

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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Demolition started)

Postby Mike G » 25 Sep 2014, 19:25

I have been a little held up by work, and by a shed I am building :), but finally, I started work on the house today. I had to, because the workshop boarding has got this far:

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.... and I can't go up the gables until the undercloaking is in place, and the undercloaking is reclaimed slate from these rooves:

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This single storey lean to arrangement is what requires demolition:

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I made a little model to explain to the Planners what I was up to, and it might help understand the proposals. Here is the existing, front and back:

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Here is the proposal, front, South East, and North East:

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Me, holding the model:

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Incidentally, the thing which probably swayed the vote in my favour at the Planning Meeting was the model of what I could build without Planning Permission, using my Permitted development rights. Nice, innit?

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Anyway, back to the demolition. Here is the view from the other side, showing the side door which was broken into whilst the house stood empty last winter (we only bought it in July). They stole all the plumbing, leaving water pouring into the house for 3 or 4 days:

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That's how the thieves got in:

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The inside of the former kitchen which I will be removing shortly (the new kitchen I built in a week in the old dining room, and is visible through the open door.........soon to be blocked up permanently.).

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The larder door lining isn't quite at its best at the moment:

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Finally, I removed the woodstore in one piece, with a view to erecting it alongside one of the other sheds in the garden to increase our storage:

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It put up a bit of a fight, but I won.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Demolition started)

Postby Wizard9999 » 25 Sep 2014, 19:37

Mike G wrote:Me, holding the model:

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Incidentally, the thing which probably swayed the vote in my favour at the Planning Meeting was the model of what I could build without Planning Permission, using my Permitted development rights. Nice, innit?

Image

Image

Image



:text-bravo:

Nice to put a face to the name!

And, love the trick of saying let me build the nice extension I want, because otherwise I might use permitted development to build this monstrosity! Cracking.

Looking forward to this thread.

Terry.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Demolition started)

Postby the bear » 25 Sep 2014, 22:35

Mike
Looks like you'll get a cracking house, I like the design/layout. I'm no expert so how does it work that you can build that huge extension under PD but have to have permission for what you want?
I'm really interested as I move next week and want to do an extension where we are going. Any ideas on getting planning permission in an AONB/greenbelt (no PD regardless of previous development or not, mines had none, original 60s chalet bungalow only)
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Demolition started)

Postby Mike G » 26 Sep 2014, 07:51

Hi Mark.

We needed Planning Permission because PD (in our case) allows massive single storey extensions but only modest 2 storey ones. We wanted a 2 storey extension substantially bigger than allowed under PD. Furthermore, we are planning to change the roof material from slate to clay plain tiles, and for this, we need to raise the pitch of the roof. In any circumstances this would require a Planning Application.

In your circumstances, you should employ a local architect to advise on your extension. Generally, extensions in the countryside are more tightly controlled than within village envelopes or in urban areas, but each Local Authority will have its own local policies. If the house is unaltered from when it was built, you will almost certainly be allowed to build a well-designed extension, but you will need a professional to advise you and design it.

Mike
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Demolition started)

Postby the bear » 27 Sep 2014, 10:40

Thanks Mike.
Now I understand, didn't realise PD differentiated like that, just thought it was based on footprint or volume.
I have already had round a couple of people prior to buying the house, who said something similar to you. I have found a couple of guys who have got the planning through on a development further up the road. They work a lot in my new area and are based in the next village so hopefully they have plenty of local knowledge and relationship with the planners.
Best of luck with yours build.

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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Demolition continued)

Postby Mike G » 27 Sep 2014, 19:56

I needed to block up the back door into the old kitchen, prior to demolishing it, but when I took the architrave off, this greeted me:

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This is a view through the rotten door liner to the rotten oak frame behind. Completely and utterly rotten and gone. It isn't a huge surprise, given it's location.

I cleaned it up a bit, screwed a bit of timber onto the bricks, insulated, and boarded up the door. This insulation here in the door is more than in the rest of the house put together:

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The roof of the larder was quickly removed, but the state of the slates was alarming. Remember I was hoping to re-use them.

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I tried to take the slates off the old kitchen roof individually, but again, they were so soft and friable that I only got 4 or 5 off whole over the whole of the roof. They simply aren't re-usable. I really don't like slates, because of this deterioration.

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Loads of rubbish:

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I saw some droppings on the flat ceiling of the old kitchen. I wonder what could have done these?

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This'll be the culprit:

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A big fat rat.

Here's its partner:

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Further up the roof was an old bees' nest:

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And close by a wasps' nest:

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Apparently wasps will often follow bees into a roof..........if you have bees one year the chances are you'll have wasps in the same place next year.

This roof was older than I thought, and had had a couple of interventions. Firstly, it must have had a ceiling under the rafters at some stage (hence the laths.........no sign of any plaster though, oddly). The main roof timbers are pine, but half-round, and not straight.The nails are cut nails. So, I'm thinking early 20th century or late 19th century. Clearly someone had re-roofed this outshot, using felt underlay. I'd guess this puts it (say) 1960 onwards. They had added some secondary timbers to the side of the rafters to try to straighten things up a bit. I assume the slates date from then. So about 50 years old, and not strong enough to support the weight of a sparrow........

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You can see the original back wall of the house through the gap in the laths.

Plenty of active woodworm. No surprise, given that this is an unventilated roofspace, and an unheated house:

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Standing on the modern ceiling joists, using a shovel to break the laths off.

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Then off came the rafters, and I took the top 6 feet of chimney down too. The top couple of feet had been rebuilt using rock-hard sand cement mortar, wrecking all the bricks in the process. below that, the lime mortar meant that all the bricks will be re-usable:

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I then got rather side-tracked into pruning a couple of greengage trees.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Demolition continued)

Postby Wizard9999 » 27 Sep 2014, 22:46

So, what will you be using on the roof of the workshop Mike?

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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Demolition continued)

Postby Mike G » 28 Sep 2014, 20:17

The slates on the main roof of the house are fine. I unfolded a couple of tingles and pulled the slates out, and they're thick, strong, and "crispy" rather than the soggy, soft things on the outshot rooves. So I'll be using those. However, that doesn't solve my immediate need, which is for some undercloaking, so I'll buy a few new slates for that. That will enable me to finish the boarding.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Demolition continued)

Postby Mike G » 04 Oct 2014, 20:13

I have done virtually nothing to the house or workshop over the last fortnight because of work commitments, but having finished that lot on Friday I am free to resume. Here is the current state of play with the house:

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Frustratingly, the above elevation (with the window & door), and the adjoining wall around to the chimney, have been rebuilt using a rock hard mortar, so not only is it hard work to take apart, but none of the bricks are re-usable. Luckily, the chimney and everything past it, is in lime mortar, and so the bricks are fine. Really, there are some complete idiots in this world, and anyone who thinks 150 year old soft reds should be bedded in a 3:1 cement mortar is firmly in that category. And here is further evidence (presumably the same person).........."Look, no lintel!! That saved some money."

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Luckily the window seems to have not suffered as a result, because this is the window that I want to transfer to my workshop.

The weather is set fair tomorrow, there is nothing in the calender, and so I should have a clear run at building work tomorrow and for the foreseeable future.
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