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Mike's ext'n & renovation (sunroom stone floor & plinth)

This is where we don't want anything but evidence of your finest wood butchering in all its glorious, and photograph laden glory. Bring your finished products or WIP's, we love them all, so long as there's pictures, and plenty of 'em!

Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Ins & UFH)

Postby Mike G » 01 Dec 2016, 14:43

Absolutely, Jon. First class pipes, clip-track, and service.....and my (excellent) plumber uses them ahead of local plumber's merchants. Don't forget to order both the clip-track and the push-in staple-like clips, and take care to order the pipe in the right lengths to save waste.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Ins & UFH)

Postby the bear » 01 Dec 2016, 18:58

Mike
Does the UFH pipe have a memory when its uncoiled? Can't image its easy wrestling 100m of pipe into position if it has and it just wants to recoil backup.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Ins & UFH)

Postby Mike G » 01 Dec 2016, 20:37

Because of the aluminium layer, Mark, it sort-of stays where it's put. Nonetheless, you put your finger on the tricky part: handling 120m of pipe in one hand whilst guiding the bit you're interested in with the other, and standing on the pipe to sit it down flat at the same time. Turning the corners is worst, particularly early on when the coil is large. Anyone who hasn't done it before I suggest having someone to help. The really big deal is the clip track system, which sets out the pipe accurately, and holds it there without having to rummage with one hand for a push-in clip which is then forced back out of the insulation by movement of the pipe as you turn the next corner.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Ins & UFH)

Postby MJ80 » 01 Dec 2016, 23:07

I wish I used the clips rather than the staples. I had a hand with the pipe rolls, but it was a real handful doing the concentric circle layout. Are you going with a quick drying screed?
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Ins & UFH)

Postby Mike G » 02 Dec 2016, 08:03

MJ80 wrote:.......it was a real handful doing the concentric circle layout........

I've always done that previously, but the manufacturer's recommendation this days for the up-and-down layout you can see in the photos. It seems to have worked OK in the new part of the house.

MJ80 wrote:.........Are you going with a quick drying screed?

No. I've got 5 tons of sand and a ton of cement sitting outside. Plus a bag of fibreglass strands and some plasticiser, of course.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Screed)

Postby Mike G » 03 Dec 2016, 17:37

I promised a better photo of the underfloor heating pipes:

Image

Image

The latter photo is to show where the pipes aren't. You don't install them under the lavatory pan, because that is screwed to the floor, and you wouldn't want to risk drilling into the floor near pipes. They are also missing from the area of the stairs, because it is pointless heating the understairs cupboard.

I did a reasonable amount of work on the porch without telling you about it. I laid a course of 2 inch blocks all round, and painted them with the liquid waterproofer. Then I did the 25mm insulation upstands, and the insulation on the floor. This is an inch thinner than in the rest of the house because the floor finish which will be going in there (a floor brick), is an inch thicker than the stone which is going over most of the rest of the downstairs. You may also notice a little loop of underfloor heating pipe. This is a bit naughty, because the porch is outside the insulated envelope of the building, and taking the pipe out there makes the porch fall under Building Regs. It's just a short loop to take the edge of the chill in there, and not intended to warm it properly:

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Here is the screed underway. Note the 2x2 set into some screed, used as a temporary guide:

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This is what 6 hours work looks like:

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With a labourer I could have finished the whole floor in the time, but I don't have one. Frankly, there is as much skill in getting the screed mixed to exactly the right moisture content as there is in leveling it, and I would be loath to let anyone else do that job. So it will take 2 days instead of one. Good news is that my back held out through quite a tough day.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Screed)

Postby Rod » 03 Dec 2016, 18:15

Crikey Mike you put us all to shame!

We fitted a new WC to our downstairs loo and I was quite amazed that it had no provision for screwing to the floor or to the wall.
It was quite a heavy beast (Laufen Pro) and held in place by silicon and gravity.

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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Screed)

Postby Tusses » 03 Dec 2016, 18:52

Did you make the "porsche" loop last in the line, so it doesn't chill the heat before the rest of the run ?

also, if you don't mind .. a completely random Q that doesn't warrant a new thread.
Nothing to do with your build.. :oops:
I've always seen people take out walls .. and put steel in to support above weight.
and I've always wondered .. the weight of the orig' wall is spread across the full length where it sits on the ground (our house is old) or foundation with newer houses. it you take a wall out, then it just sits on the two tiny footprints "columns" each side ! .. I always thought that would cause problems .. ???

Hope you don't mind me asking :)
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Screed)

Postby Mike G » 03 Dec 2016, 19:06

Structural engineer's territory, that one, but the answer is pretty simple even for an architect!! :) The vertical force from the steel and the load it carries goes out at 45 degrees through the wall, not vertically, so by the time that line gets to the ground at each end of the opening, there is likely to be 4 or 5 metres of foundation taking the load. Foundations are way over designed (as we can see from ancient buildings built with just a thickening out of the base brickwork, and no concrete), and so the slightly more concentrated load we're discussing is usually trivial for them. More important than the load on the foundations, I have seen people install steels sitting on just 3 or 4 inches of wall. That means an enormous load concentrated on just a single brick or two. Engineers will always specify a PCC padstone when they design a steel beam, and the steel will have a minimum 150mm bearing on that.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Screed)

Postby the bear » 03 Dec 2016, 19:37

When i renovate my house (hopefully next year) I intend to leave an area in our family room without UFH, only about 1 x 1.5m, for the dog to find and lay on if the rest of the floor is too warm for him. We never had UFH in our old house but we did have several heating pipes running under the kitchen tiles and he would find those if he was cold so I'm hoping the reverse is true.

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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Screed)

Postby MJ80 » 03 Dec 2016, 21:18

Good going Mike, don't overdo your back. When they did the screed in our place a really fine river ballast was used. Are you putting any expansion joints in there?
Our dogs love the UFH...
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Screed)

Postby Norty Raskel » 04 Dec 2016, 20:08

Hi Mike,

In that last post it looks like you've left the screed with a stepped detail, is this so you get a better join when you continue on day 2?

Good news on the back holding up.

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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Screed)

Postby 9fingers » 04 Dec 2016, 21:20

Mike, I've been scanning through your thread to look for a floor plan to answer my question but have given up after 12 pages :lol:

What is the inner room on the gound floor shown in your last picture that needs two 110mm soil pipes?

His and hers downstairs thunder boxes? :lol:

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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Screed)

Postby Mike G » 04 Dec 2016, 22:33

I think you have to go back to page 1 for a plan, Bob. I should re-post it.

That's the downstairs loo, with a pipe coming down from the bathroom above. There's also a soil stack in the corner of the dining room serving the shower in the same bathroom. Things are more complex when there is a girding beam preventing access across the middle of the floor void.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Screed)

Postby Mike G » 04 Dec 2016, 22:38

Here you go:

Image
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Screed)

Postby 9fingers » 04 Dec 2016, 23:13

Ah Ok. A bit of over engineering for the WHB in the loo then!

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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Screed)

Postby Commander » 05 Dec 2016, 07:33

I'm glad your back held on Mike, screeding must take a heavy toll on an already sore back. Looks like a top job hey!
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Screed)

Postby Mike G » 05 Dec 2016, 08:51

9fingers wrote:Ah Ok. A bit of over engineering for the WHB in the loo then!

Bob


No, no......it's the drop from the bathroom above.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Screed)

Postby Mike G » 05 Dec 2016, 08:55

Commander wrote:I'm glad your back held on Mike, screeding must take a heavy toll on an already sore back. Looks like a top job hey!


Thanks Erich.

Judging by the footprints in it this morning, our pooch undertook a tour of inspection last night after we all went to bed. :)
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Screed)

Postby Phil » 05 Dec 2016, 09:44

Mike, glad the back is holding up.

How did you get the screed inside the house?

Must have been one ball-ache manouvering inbetween all those pipes and not dislodging or damaging any.

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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Screed)

Postby Mike G » 05 Dec 2016, 17:32

It comes in by the wheelbarrow full Phil, and no, there was almost nothing in the way.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Screed)

Postby Malc2098 » 05 Dec 2016, 18:23

Looking really good, Mike. Glad the back's coping!
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Screed)

Postby Commander » 05 Dec 2016, 19:52

Mike G wrote:It comes in by the wheelbarrow full Phil, and no, there was almost nothing in the way.


I think Phil was referring to the UFH piping, I suspect you had to put down boards for the wheelbarrow to run on, or are we missing something Mike?
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Screed)

Postby Mike G » 05 Dec 2016, 19:53

I laid the plinth bricks today:

Image

Image

Much more interesting, though.....

I visited the local brickyard a few days ago. A place where they still make bricks by hand, and are in huge demand for major restoration jobs all over the country. They provided thousands of bricks for Hampton Court Palace, for instance, and the guy who runs it (a long-time friend) is probably the country's leading expert on bricks. I showed him a brick from my chimney, and looking at it he was able to give me a date to within 10 years........1800 to 1810. Well, that doesn't fit with what I knew of the timber frame, and left me scratching my head. Anyway, I went back to see him a day or two later with a couple of bricks from the plinth, which are very slightly and subtly different from the chimney. He dated those 1690 to 1705. That puts it absolutely spot on with the dates I had from the frame. I can now say with confidence that the house was built just over 300 years ago, but the chimney was re-built a hundred years later, probably as the result of a chimney fire.
Last edited by Mike G on 05 Dec 2016, 19:58, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Screed)

Postby Mike G » 05 Dec 2016, 19:54

Commander wrote:
Mike G wrote:It comes in by the wheelbarrow full Phil, and no, there was almost nothing in the way.


I think Phil was referring to the UFH piping, I suspect you had to put down boards for the wheelbarrow to run on, or are we missing something Mike?


Oh, I see. No, the stuff is tough as old boots. You just run straight over the top of it with the barrow.
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