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Mike's ext'n & renovation (sunroom stone floor & plinth)

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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (DPM)

Postby RogerS » 16 Nov 2014, 17:46

Mike, I understand your rationale re 'pouring concrete downhill' but, surely, if the joints are taped then it doesn't matter which direction the concrete is poured?
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (DPM)

Postby Mike G » 16 Nov 2014, 20:47

If the tape were infallible, Roger, you'd be right. But with damp polythene, and sand around from the blinding, even with an array of towels it is difficult to get a couple of good clean surfaces and a guaranteed bond.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (DPM)

Postby Wizard9999 » 17 Nov 2014, 01:22

Mike wrote:Annoyingly, the brand new plastic seems to have a few manufacturing flaws like this:

Image

The repair involves taping a large patch, about a foot square.


Mike

I put my DPM in over the weekend and found exactly the same thing, right in the middle of the roll so without doubt a manufacturing fault not damage from transit. I took a photo and plan to write to manufacturing to tell them I am unimpressed. My was from Visqueen.

Bit worried my patch was not big enough though from reading this :( , although as I joined mine first and then moved it in to place I did put a patch on both sides.

Two questions if I may...
1. Whilst there is not much rain forecast this week one of my concerns is what to do if I do get water laying on the DPM before the concrete pour. Can't really get the water out as I have two blinking great sections of steel reinforcing mesh on top of the DPM now.
2. Like you I have loads of slack DPM around the edges of my slab. If I didn't have this I would use the shuttering as something to rest a board across the base to initially level the concrete, but I worry that if I do this by putting the board on top of the DPM the board cold damage the DPM.
Any words of wisdom from the master on these two issues?

Again, your pace of work is stunning and it is all looking very good.

Terry.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (DPM)

Postby Mike G » 17 Nov 2014, 08:23

Hi Terry.

A patch on both sides is a great repair. Don't worry. Nor worry about water in the "pond". The concrete will push the water out. The worst that can happen is a film of water on top of your finished concrete, and you can soon push that off with a broom before the concrete sets. The concrete is so much heavier than water that the water always floats to the surface, immediately, and will get pushed away as you tamp. It doesn't mix with your concrete, unless you allow it to stay on the surface after you finish tamping.

As for tamping with the DPM in place..........well, it's standard practise, and I have never heard of damage to the plastic. I shall be doing just that myself, although obviously you do take care. A bigger deal with this situation is that the folds in the plastic around corners become very hard and prominent when the concrete has pushed everything tightly to the formwork, and that can make finding the top of the formwork a bit awkward when you are tamping.

Talking of tamping: prepare your tamper beforehand, put some handles on it, and make sure you have another person there to help at the appropriate time.

Have fun with the pour! Do a last check on your formwork.....make sure it is strong enough to resist bowing under the pressure of many tons of liquid.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (DPM)

Postby RogerS » 17 Nov 2014, 11:27

Mike, your nifty sand levelling jig. Is it a scraping motion or a tamping motion that you use? Presumably you need three people. One at each end and one person end on to watch the spirit level bubble? Those bubbles are very small...just wondered how easy it was ?
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (DPM)

Postby Mike G » 17 Nov 2014, 11:55

RogerS wrote:Mike, your nifty sand levelling jig. Is it a scraping motion or a tamping motion that you use? Presumably you need three people. One at each end and one person end on to watch the spirit level bubble? Those bubbles are very small...just wondered how easy it was ?


Tamping the sand was a quick one man job, just scraping and occasionally tamping a strip 3 or 4 feet wide around the perimeter, then using a straight edge to infil the stuff in the middle. For doing concrete, there is no need for a spirit level, as you have formwork all round and your tamper is long enough to span across. It's like levelling off a tablespoon of sugar using a knife.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (DPM)

Postby RogerS » 17 Nov 2014, 12:14

Ah, my mistake. Seeing the spirit level there I'd thought you used it to keep the jig level. But it's just storage, yes?
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (DPM)

Postby Mike G » 17 Nov 2014, 12:51

No, it's to get this jig level. But this jig isn't what I would use for concrete, this is only for the sand blinding.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (DPM)

Postby Wizard9999 » 17 Nov 2014, 13:51

Mike G wrote:A patch on both sides is a great repair.


Good news, thanks.

Mike G wrote:Don't worry. Nor worry about water in the "pond". The concrete will push the water out. The worst that can happen is a film of water on top of your finished concrete, and you can soon push that off with a broom before the concrete sets. The concrete is so much heavier than water that the water always floats to the surface, immediately, and will get pushed away as you tamp. It doesn't mix with your concrete, unless you allow it to stay on the surface after you finish tamping.


Even better news, as despite the forecast for "light showers" I lay awake for a large part of last night fretting as the rain poured down!

Mike G wrote:As for tamping with the DPM in place..........well, it's standard practise, and I have never heard of damage to the plastic. I shall be doing just that myself, although obviously you do take care. A bigger deal with this situation is that the folds in the plastic around corners become very hard and prominent when the concrete has pushed everything tightly to the formwork, and that can make finding the top of the formwork a bit awkward when you are tamping.

Talking of tamping: prepare your tamper beforehand, put some handles on it, and make sure you have another person there to help at the appropriate time.

Have fun with the pour! Do a last check on your formwork.....make sure it is strong enough to resist bowing under the pressure of many tons of liquid.


As ever, your wise counsel is ery much appreciated.

Terry.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Don't panic!)

Postby Mike G » 17 Nov 2014, 19:30

After about 18 hours of rain yesterday and overnight, this sight greeted me this morning:

Image

I spent an hour or so bailing, and discovered a big problem. You can't see it in the photo above: the air-supply pipe had popped out of the ground. Yep, they float. The building inspector turned up and could see the pickle I was in, but that I was doing all the right things. He was happy to let me pour concrete tomorrow, knowing that I'll have everything ready.

I turned back the plastic sheet, and the sand had turned to quicksand.

Image

This is the bouyant pipe. You can see how it has picked up the form-work, which should be flush with the top of the bricks:

Image

I went and hired a sump pump, and whilst it was running, I built a chute for the concrete at the utility end of the build. I forgot to take piccies with the sides on, or the polythene in position, but you'll see them tomorrow with concrete puring down it.

Image

Image

I'll have to get up early in the morning:

Image

The pump still hasn't cleared everything. Once the water is away it will only take me half an hour to sort the pipe out, touch-up the sand, and relay the polythene.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Don't panic!)

Postby Wizard9999 » 17 Nov 2014, 23:08

Mike G wrote:
Image

I spent an hour or so bailing, and discovered a big problem.


Mike

I hope you have time in the morning to get everything you need to do finished, fingers crossed. But I am confused. Given your post earlier today re water on the DPM not being a problem, why did you have to bail out? Was it only to get to the buoyant pipe, or is there a limit to how much water is acceptable?

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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Don't Panic!)

Postby Mike G » 18 Nov 2014, 07:38

It wasn't the water on top of the DPM which I bailed, particularly, it was the 9 inches of water in the trenches which was at the same level as the water under the DPM. In places the DPM was floating. Reducing the general level of water within the excavation was my aim, and, having had a look this morning, I am going to be OK for concrete in a couple of hours time.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Don't Panic!)

Postby Wizard9999 » 18 Nov 2014, 08:04

Mike G wrote:It wasn't the water on top of the DPM which I bailed, particularly, it was the 9 inches of water in the trenches which was at the same level as the water under the DPM. In places the DPM was floating. Reducing the general level of water within the excavation was my aim, and, having had a look this morning, I am going to be OK for concrete in a couple of hours time.


Mike

Sounds like you had even more rain on Sunday evening Han we did. Glad you're back on track and hope all goes well today.

Terry.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Don't Panic!)

Postby Rod » 18 Nov 2014, 08:53

Brings back lots of memories - Oh the joys of working in wet weather - though I suppose a hard frost is worse when laying concrete?!!

If you hadn't suffered the other issues, I suppose filling the air duct with water would have kept it down - then suction pump it out afterwards?

Hope everything goes well?

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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Oversite poured)

Postby Mike G » 18 Nov 2014, 14:11

We're done. The concrete is in the ground, tamped & levelled:

Image

Image

The chute worked extremely well. I've turned the plastic up here and put a block in the way to stop the rain running down it and washing the "fines" away below.

Image

Image

It was hard work, as I only had one friend helping. In the middle of the job it poured with rain for half an hour, not only making the job pretty miserable, but leaving me with quite a bit of water puddling on the surface. this made tamping difficult. At the end of the tamping, I pushed most of the spare water off the end and into the trenches.

Most pleasing of all........I had 2 buckets full of concrete spare at the end. That is just about perfect in terms of judging concrete volumes, so I needn't have lain awake in the middle of last night worrying after all!! :)
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Oversite poured)

Postby RogerS » 18 Nov 2014, 14:23

Well done, Mike. You must be dead chuffed. Time for several beers, I think.

:eusa-clap: :eusa-clap:
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Oversite poured)

Postby Robert » 18 Nov 2014, 15:02

Amazing progress and fascinating to follow.

Thanks for taking the time to keep this updated so regularly.

Just thinking... I don't think I've ever seen a brand new scaffold board before :)
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Oversite poured)

Postby Mike G » 18 Nov 2014, 15:07

Robert wrote:Just thinking... I don't think I've ever seen a brand new scaffold board before :)


I haven't either, other than in a pile at a Builder's Merchant. Now I own four :eusa-dance:
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Oversite poured)

Postby Mike G » 18 Nov 2014, 15:20

RogerS wrote:Well done, Mike. You must be dead chuffed. Time for several beers, I think.

:eusa-clap: :eusa-clap:


Thanks Roger. Yes, I'm very pleased indeed. Getting the oversite poured is one of those landmarks in a job: digging the footings, oversite, finishing the roof, weather-tight (usually when the windows go in), breaking through (where appropriate), plastering. All moments for a self-congratulatory pat on the back, and a celebratory cup of tea ;) .
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Oversite poured)

Postby 9fingers » 18 Nov 2014, 15:21

Less of this supping tea Mike! You have a couple of hours daylight left, time to knock up some muck and get some blocks laid!! :lol:

I always think this is the best bit of a building project as the new work rises out of the ground. Thanks for the dedication to posting in the topic.

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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Oversite poured)

Postby Mike G » 18 Nov 2014, 15:33

9fingers wrote:Less of this supping tea Mike! You have a couple of hours daylight left, time to knock up some muck and get some blocks laid!! :lol:

I always think this is the best bit of a building project as the new work rises out of the ground. Thanks for the dedication to posting in the topic.

Bob


:D

I've a couple of appointments this afternoon, so if it's OK, I'll probably not bother with the block-laying. You might also remember from a previous post that I like to leave concrete rather longer than proper builders would, so I will probably not do any work on it tomorrow either. Depending on the weather, though, there are plenty of other things I can be doing. I've got 700 or 800 bricks to cut, for a start.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Oversite poured)

Postby Andyp » 18 Nov 2014, 15:34

Yep fascinating as always and as this appears to be the official Lay a Slab of Concrete Week lets hope Terry's goes just as well.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Oversite poured)

Postby Rod » 18 Nov 2014, 18:56

Well done - a great achievement - and only 2 bucket loads left over, that's amazing.
No need to worry about curing the concrete in this weather!

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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Oversite poured)

Postby TrimTheKing » 18 Nov 2014, 19:09

Ta Daaaaaaa, looking good Mike.

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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Oversite poured)

Postby Wizard9999 » 18 Nov 2014, 20:24

Looking great Mike well done!

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