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Mike's extension & renovation (Porch render 2)

This is where we don't want anything but evidence of your finest wood butchering in all its glorious, and photograph laden glory. Bring your finished products or WIP's, we love them all, so long as there's pictures, and plenty of 'em!

Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Porch roof finished)

Postby Malc2098 » 12 Oct 2017, 20:17

Pretty. Very pretty!
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Porch roof finished)

Postby Rod » 12 Oct 2017, 23:58

Yes looks very nice

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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Porch render 1)

Postby Mike G » 14 Oct 2017, 20:11

Time to start work on the rendering of the porch. For a start, all of the Savolit panels were sitting loose in rebates, deliberately, because I wanted to do a little lead detail at the bottom. Here's the lead:

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And here is the bottom of a panel:

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The panel at the bottom sits in front of an upstand, designed to have the lead between the two. It's easier to show a photo than explain. Inside first, then outside:

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Here is a view into the side rebate, with the board fixed back properly in position. This shows the strategy with these render panels, which is to allow for movement and shrinkage in the oak framing. The render will squeeze into the rest of the rebate, meaning that even if the oak frame shrinks considerably there will be no path into the structure for water (or light, for that matter):

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I taped up the oak with Duck tape because masking tape is porous enough that it doesn't prevent the lime from immediately discolouring the oak. There is an immediate and dramatic reaction between lime render (and cement, too) and green oak, leading to permanent discolouration. Anyway, I was now ready for render:

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The render depth is about 30mm here, which is a lot. So, I am going to build it up in two layers. Here is the first coat, called a scratch coats because it gets scratched to form a key for the second coat:

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Oh, and as a fun little aside, you know how it is when you knock something together quickly as a temporary measure just to get yourself out of an immediate problem? Well, those things, in my experience, usually hang around for at least 30 years. Here is my plasterer's hawk, made decades ago for 5 minutes of plastering, and still going strong (= as badly as ever):

Image
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Porch render 1)

Postby Malc2098 » 14 Oct 2017, 20:54

Watching this .... almost better than Strictly!!

Nah....it's better!
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Porch render 1)

Postby Mike G » 14 Oct 2017, 21:01

Malc2098 wrote:Watching this .... almost better than Strictly!!

Nah....it's better!


Less cleavage. Not better........ ;)
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Porch render 1)

Postby Malc2098 » 14 Oct 2017, 21:08

Perv!!!
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Porch render 1)

Postby Mike G » 14 Oct 2017, 21:11

Well, to be fair, I haven't watched Strictly for at least 5 years now.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Porch render 1)

Postby Malc2098 » 14 Oct 2017, 21:27

:lol:
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Porch render 1)

Postby Jimmy Mack » 14 Oct 2017, 21:32

I have a 'temporary' home made hawk somewhere

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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Porch render 1)

Postby Stargazer » 15 Oct 2017, 09:46

Jimmy Mack wrote:I have a 'temporary' home made hawk somewhere

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Ditto


(In fact it is probably the one made by my father when he was helping me plastering on my very first house)
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Porch render 1)

Postby Andyp » 15 Oct 2017, 11:27

Stargazer wrote:
Jimmy Mack wrote:I have a 'temporary' home made hawk somewhere

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Ditto


(In fact it is probably the one made by my father when he was helping me plastering on my very first house)


Ditto that. Although I have never really plastered, just filled a few holes.
cheers

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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Porch render 2)

Postby Mike G » 16 Oct 2017, 18:14

The first three panels consumed an awful lot of render, but more importantly, took two coats and a long time to dry. I decided to pack out the Savolit board with another sheet so that I could finish with a single coat of render, and that coat would go off relatively quickly. So, I glued & screwed some board on like this:

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This still gave room for squeezing render into the rebate. Then it was just a question of applying the stuff and troweling it up at the appropriate time, then sponging it. Half a day's work, then a few hours doing other things before coming back to do the sponging:

Image

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Tape on, above, then tape off:

Image

You'll note that I've also done the fillet up the canopy roof. That gets cleaned up tomorrow.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Porch render 2)

Postby Malc2098 » 16 Oct 2017, 18:25

Getting prettier all the time!
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Porch render 2)

Postby Andyp » 16 Oct 2017, 19:13

What did you do about those misaligned pegs in the apex of the porch?

Looks excellent of course but I reckon it will look even better when it has weathered a little.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Porch render 2)

Postby Mike G » 16 Oct 2017, 20:14

Andyp wrote:What did you do about those misaligned pegs in the apex of the porch? ......


Sworn at them, every time I've passed under them. No-one else has spotted it yet. If anyone does, they'll be covered up before you can blink.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Porch render 2)

Postby Jimmy Mack » 17 Oct 2017, 00:14

Those tiles are gorgeous!

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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Porch render 2)

Postby Andyp » 17 Oct 2017, 06:17

Mike G wrote:
Andyp wrote:What did you do about those misaligned pegs in the apex of the porch? ......


Sworn at them, every time I've passed under them. No-one else has spotted it yet. If anyone does, they'll be covered up before you can blink.


I am not surprised (that no-one else has noticed).
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Porch render 2)

Postby fiveeyes » 18 Oct 2017, 00:57

Mike..this render/plaster that you are putting on, is this some sort of portland cement mixture? And I am assuming that it is the same stuff on the roof ridge, would that be so? Our plaster would not have chance outdoors. Your render must be tough! Looking good!

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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Porch render 2)

Postby Mike G » 18 Oct 2017, 08:02

No, Bill, it isn't cement based. It is lime-based. It is the modern version of the ancient lime/ chalk/ hair render which has been used on the outside and inside of buildings for millennia. Cement-based render is what destroyed this house to the point of near collapse in the first place, in a matter of only 40 years. Cement renders are impervious to moisture, and thus wrap the house in an external vapour barrier. Imagine putting the house inside a giant plastic bag, but having sources of heat and moisture inside the house. The warm moist air inside meets a cold impermeable surface at the inside face of the render, where it condenses, and the water runs down and sits on the sole plate, with no way out. Naturally, the constantly-wet sole plate rots. Further, cement render is rock solid. The frame it surrounds is timber and flexible (and rotting!). This means cracks are inevitable, which is another source of water into the structure.

Lime render, on the other hand, is flexible, and "breathable", which is a shorthand way of saying that it is vapour permeable. It allows moisture through it in the form of vapour, whilst keeping out water droplets (like Gortex). When taking off some old bits of render, larger chunks of it felt somewhat like a thick carpet: you could bend and flex it without it breaking.

This lime render, as per the original, has no sand in it. It was mixed with chalk. Sand almost always has a clay content, and clay shrinks, so even a lime render made with sand is likely to crack or craze somewhat. Lots of renovations in the last 30 years have used lime render, thinking they were doing the right thing, but those renders used sand. Apart from the mortar in the bottom 2 or 3 courses of brick, in the ground, this house was built without any sand. Both the mortar and all the plaster/ render were mixed with chalk. The only difference between that old stuff and the render I used is that the hair element has been replaced with a modern poly-something fibre (hair is really difficult to source, apparently, and Chinese goat hair is no more authentic than poly-something). Further, hair does rot in the end. I guess the other slight difference is that the machine mixing and grading, and the lab-controlled consistency of ingredients means that the modern lime/ chalk render is likely to be of a much more consistent mix than the original, which would have been mixed by hand on site.

As for the ridge.......no, I did those in a strong white cement/ sand mortar (same as the brickwork, but twice as strong).
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Porch render 2)

Postby Malc2098 » 18 Oct 2017, 10:07

Fascinating!
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Porch render 2)

Postby fiveeyes » 20 Oct 2017, 01:08

Well now..that was a lesson in building for sure. Thank you for that. The explanation that you gave was just what a novice needed. It is great fun to learn what was/is. I sincerely appreciate that. As you would say...cheers...bill
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Porch render 2)

Postby RogerS » 20 Oct 2017, 21:16

You can see how flexible a lime/chalk mix in the video in this thread
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Porch render 2)

Postby mjdewet » 23 Oct 2017, 15:45

Mike, to quote another Dutchman, Rob, You sir are a magician. :text-bravo: :text-bravo:
And an inspiration to this Boertjie! (14th generation dutchman too)

I've sworn an oath on my dead cat's liver that I'll not show my wife this thread, else she may import you for some tasks around the house.
But alas, my son who now lives on you fair isle, has, and he expects his old man to do it the 'Mike-way'!

So I've committed to doing things the 'Mike-way' from now on.

Plan, Plan, Plan. Get the right materials, and do it right first time!

Your info on using lime render and the mix is most informative.
You would know about the old Cape Dutch buildings down here in the Western Cape. They were built with sun dried adobe type earthen bricks, and the 'mortar' was also a mud/clay/chopped straw mix, and where straw was missing, cow dung, or whatever was to hand, even horse dung, etc.

The walls were plastered with the same mix, and once dried out, a lime wash was made of slaked lime, water and animal fat to an almost slurry consistency. The water reacted with the slaked lime and created heat, which melted the fat, and the melted fat coagulated with the lime particles. This slurry was brushed on with a rough brush, and the fat/lime 'slurry' was the waterproofing on the oustide walls, that prevented moisture from getting in. This white washing had to be done quite regularly to keep the walls waterproof, and in old travel documents sometimes mention is made that dwelling hasn't been white washed, and signs of decay are visible, with parts of the walls in ruins...

Sea shells from mussels, abalone, and other shellfish was gathered from the beaches, and burnt in kilns not too far from the beaches, and then transported by ox-wagon to wherever it was needed.

We can be thankful for living in the 21st Century, but still need to know how the craftsmen of old did what they did, and why they did it that way!
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Porch render 2)

Postby Mike G » 23 Oct 2017, 17:15

Hey Thys. Good to hear from you again. Hope you are well.

Great post! Yes, I love the old Cape adobe/ clay lump/ cob buildings*, and you're dead right about the limewash, too. There are cob buildings in Devon whose walls are probably 4 inches thicker than when they were built because of the centuries of limewash inside and out.


* All using much the same materials (often just mud/ straw/ dung scraped off the farmyard), but slightly differing techniques. Whereas your ancestors in the Cape made sun-dried bricks from it, here it was often just pounded into formwork in situ, allowed to harden a bit, then the planks raised up and the next layer added.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Porch render 2)

Postby fiveeyes » 08 Nov 2017, 01:59

Calling Superman..withdrawal is setting in quickly. What, two weeks gone by, and not so much as a peep. :(
Being facetious, of course. I do hope that you are well. ..bill..
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