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Malcolm's Workbench (Fitting the vice)

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Re: Malcolm's Workbench (Stretchers)

Postby MY63 » 05 Apr 2019, 20:13

Looks very good to me not that I know much but I have watched an entire YouTube of bench building videos :)
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Re: Malcolm's Workbench (Stretchers)

Postby Andyp » 06 Apr 2019, 07:17

They look a bit thin for vertical ones.
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Re: Malcolm's Workbench (Stretchers)

Postby Woodbloke » 06 Apr 2019, 10:29

Andyp wrote:They look a bit thin for vertical ones.

Dunno Andy, vertical ones are preferred as there's a longer wedging effect. I reckon from looking at the pics, that Malc could get away with a 10mm wedge or if that's too thick, an 8mm one - Rob
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Re: Malcolm's Workbench (Stretchers)

Postby 9fingers » 06 Apr 2019, 10:47

Somebody once commented on the only wedged tenons that I'd ever done to the effect that the wedges should be at right angles to the grain of the mortice to avoid any tendency to split the grain.

Just my 2p

Bob

PS @ Malc: Mark is hoping to get the ABW for the dowels sorted out this weekend and on its way to me.
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Re: Malcolm's Workbench (Stretchers)

Postby Malc2098 » 06 Apr 2019, 11:28

Thanks, Gents.

I could manage an 8mm wedge downwards, but the wedge will be running with the grain of the leg. I'll have a closer look and try some tests on scrap.

Bob, Mark,

Thanks. 'Scuse my ignorance, What's ABW? How much do I owe to whom?
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Re: Malcolm's Workbench (Stretchers)

Postby 9fingers » 06 Apr 2019, 11:42

American black walnut

No charge from me Malc. A small measure of undying gratitude and notch on the favour slate is all lol
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Re: Malcolm's Workbench (Stretchers)

Postby Malc2098 » 06 Apr 2019, 11:45

UG &N on the FP is done!!

STOP PRESS!!!!!!


How about SQUARE pegs?!!

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Re: Malcolm's Workbench (Stretchers)

Postby Andyp » 06 Apr 2019, 11:56

ABW = american black walnut ;) Do keep up :)
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Re: Malcolm's Workbench (Stretchers)

Postby Malc2098 » 06 Apr 2019, 12:00

Andyp wrote:ABW = american black walnut ;) Do keep up :)



Now look 'ere!!

I've spent two careers full of abbreviations and acronyms. I can't help it if one or two slip through unnoticed, now can I?
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Re: Malcolm's Workbench (Stretchers)

Postby Woodbloke » 06 Apr 2019, 12:26

9fingers wrote:Somebody once commented on the only wedged tenons that I'd ever done to the effect that the wedges should be at right angles to the grain of the mortice to avoid any tendency to split the grain.

Bob


Correct Bob, but technically these are 'tusk' tenons which is a very different kettle of worms
Malc2098 wrote:Thanks, Gents.

I could manage an 8mm wedge downwards, but the wedge will be running with the grain of the leg. I'll have a closer look and try some tests on scrap.



Doesn't make any difference Malc. Look'ee here...

IMG_2688.jpg
(102.66 KiB)


...and you can see that this is the sort of thing you're trying to achieve. Tusk tenons - Rob
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Re: Malcolm's Workbench (Stretchers)

Postby Andyp » 06 Apr 2019, 12:31

Woodbloke wrote:
Andyp wrote:They look a bit thin for vertical ones.

Dunno Andy, vertical ones are preferred as there's a longer wedging effect. I reckon from looking at the pics, that Malc could get away with a 10mm wedge or if that's too thick, an 8mm one - Rob


I see makes perfect sense.
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Re: Malcolm's Workbench (Stretchers)

Postby Malc2098 » 06 Apr 2019, 12:42

Wow! Ideas running around in my head like kids at a party!

I get the theory of a vertical wedge while in use and with movement, shrinkage etc, as the wedge loosens it can fall down in the evolving gap, but I also like the idea of lateral folding wedges, too.

Any takers on square pegs for the feet and top rail M&Ts instead of round pegs?
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Re: Malcolm's Workbench (Stretchers)

Postby RogerS » 06 Apr 2019, 13:27

Hw did that planing tip go, Malc ?
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Re: Malcolm's Workbench (Stretchers)

Postby Malc2098 » 06 Apr 2019, 13:33

RogerS wrote:Hw did that planing tip go, Malc ?


They've been standing upright by the second (draughty) door of the workshop since I ripped them and planed the top of bow, so they're in an airy location.

After I've checked out the tusk tenons (I think I might have to ease them a bit more to cater for humidity increases, 'cos they're a bit tight now) and then got the tusk wedges sorted, I'll get them all back on the TS top and see if there's noticeable changes and report back.
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Re: Malcolm's Workbench (Stretchers)

Postby 9fingers » 06 Apr 2019, 13:47

Woodbloke wrote:
9fingers wrote:Somebody once commented on the only wedged tenons that I'd ever done to the effect that the wedges should be at right angles to the grain of the mortice to avoid any tendency to split the grain.

Bob


Correct Bob, but technically these are 'tusk' tenons which is a very different kettle of worms


Ah! I had wondered why they had been left so long! And I learned a new name "tusk tenon" for something I've done in the past.

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Re: Malcolm's Workbench (Stretchers)

Postby Woodbloke » 06 Apr 2019, 14:39

Malc2098 wrote:Wow! Ideas running around in my head like kids at a party!

I get the theory of a vertical wedge while in use and with movement, shrinkage etc, as the wedge loosens it can fall down in the evolving gap, but I also like the idea of lateral folding wedges, too.

Any takers on square pegs for the feet and top rail M&Ts instead of round pegs?

Those tusk tenons have been in that shelf unit for at least six or seven years and have never needed the attention of a tapometer to tighten them up. Once their tapped down firmly, they'll stay in place. I wouldn't bother with lateral folding wedges either as it only complicates matters, nor would I go with square pegs (in round 'oles :D ) There's no structural advantage and it makes everything more difficult to build.
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Re: Malcolm's Workbench (Stretchers)

Postby Malc2098 » 06 Apr 2019, 19:29

So.....I milled four plus one extra blanks to make wedges from just over 3/8" thick from mahogany stock. I only have 3/8 and 1/4 hollow chisels for the mortice machine, so I used the 3/8.

I planed them all to only just over 3/8" and then stuck them all together with DST.

I then stuck their edges to a square block and offered them to the Kapex set at 5 degrees.

I was then able to cut the angle on them all exactly the same in one go. I saved the cut waste to provide the angle for the morticer.

I set up the morticer, using the angled offcuts to set up the stretcher's tenon at the right angle, cut that one. I returned the stretcher to horizontal and cut the rest of the mortice, and here is the first fitting, after a bit more planing of the wedge.
IMG_2681.JPG
(325.88 KiB)


And after a little more fettling, trying it on the leg.
fullsizeoutput_6e9.jpeg
(231.26 KiB)
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Re: Malcolm's Workbench (Wedged Tusk Tenons)

Postby Doug » 06 Apr 2019, 20:43

Good progress Malc :eusa-clap:
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Re: Malcolm's Workbench (Wedged Tusk Tenons)

Postby Woodbloke » 06 Apr 2019, 22:43

Tusk tenons look good; aim to get them equidistant each side of the mortice when they're tapped home...just needs careful planing, a shaving at a time, then tap and test. Or chop off a bit from one end :D - Rob
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Re: Malcolm's Workbench (Wedged Tusk Tenons)

Postby Malc2098 » 07 Apr 2019, 10:59

Woodbloke wrote:Tusk tenons look good; aim to get them equidistant each side of the mortice when they're tapped home...just needs careful planing, a shaving at a time, then tap and test. Or chop off a bit from one end :D - Rob



Thanks, rob. Off to do a bit of both! CUL8R!
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Re: Malcolm's Workbench (Wedged Tusk Tenons)

Postby Malc2098 » 07 Apr 2019, 12:47

Two down, two to go.
IMG_2683.JPG
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Re: Malcolm's Workbench (Wedged Tusk Tenons)

Postby Malc2098 » 07 Apr 2019, 14:39

Four tusk tenons, their mortices and wedges done!

IMG_2684.JPG
(337.09 KiB)


What do you reckon - round off the top and bottom outer corners of the wedges?

What about the tenons? Should I reduce their length and round their top and bottom corners?
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Re: Malcolm's Workbench (Wedged Tusk Tenons)

Postby Malc2098 » 07 Apr 2019, 14:40

BTW, I don't know why I should be surprised, but it's rock solid!
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Re: Malcolm's Workbench (Wedged Tusk Tenons)

Postby Woodbloke » 07 Apr 2019, 14:54

Malc2098 wrote:Four tusk tenons, their mortices and wedges done!

What do you reckon - round off the top and bottom outer corners of the wedges?

What about the tenons? Should I reduce their length and round their top and bottom corners?

Yep, round over the outer corners of the wedges and take a chunk off the tenons; leave say, 40/50mm in front of the mortice. It's not crucial, just makes it look a bit tidier - Rob
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Re: Malcolm's Workbench (Wedged Tusk Tenons)

Postby Malc2098 » 07 Apr 2019, 17:53

Like this?!

IMG_2685.JPG
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