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Bookcase WIP - Dun

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Bookcase WIP - Dun

Postby Woodbloke » 29 Apr 2019, 17:48

The next big project will be a largish veneered bookcase in Oak to replace one made 35 years ago. It's a fairly straight forward build but as Mike G wanted see how to go about veneering, I'll include a blow by blow account including all the gory detail of how I go about it.

No pics as yet but I'll include some later as I'm part way through preparing the substrates - Rob
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Re: Bookcase WIP

Postby RogerM » 29 Apr 2019, 18:43

Great! Looking forward to this one!

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Re: Bookcase WIP

Postby Malc2098 » 29 Apr 2019, 20:01

Me, too!
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Re: Bookcase WIP - Substates & Lipping

Postby Woodbloke » 30 Apr 2019, 16:20

I decided on this project to use some pine boards salvaged from rubbishy old Argos bedroom furniture which I'd knocked apart last week:

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These long lengths of pine board are bone dry and pretty flat, but they were full of holes (staple & shelf pins) and it seemed a pity to waste them, so they were cut roughly to size and stuffed through the drum sander to remove the old finish and generally make them ready to accept the veneer. I removed the fence from the router table and each was milled to an exact width of 360m:

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Each board was then shot in on the shooter so each pair was dead square and identical; on the top board you can see some the 'oles plugged with 6mm dowels:

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The short side substrate boards are then lipped with 10mm oak lippings...

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...and won't need lipping on the ends.

The long top and bottom boards though, do need lipping on all four edges. The first lipping is shown mitred and glued into position...

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...on a long side. It's much easier (though it takes longer) to glue each long side lipping individually as I can then ensure that the mitres pick up exactly on the corners of the substate - Rob
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Re: Bookcase WIP - Substrates & Lippings

Postby Andyp » 30 Apr 2019, 16:58

Do you work from a sketch Rob or are you one of the CAD boys?

BTW this bookcase is gonna be huge ;) ;)
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Re: Bookcase WIP - Substrates & Lippings

Postby Woodbloke » 30 Apr 2019, 17:29

Andyp wrote:Do you work from a sketch Rob or are you one of the CAD boys?

BTW this bookcase is gonna be huge ;) ;)

No Andy, this is a fairly straight forward project so just a sketch in my A4 pad, with a detailed cutting list. It's going to be fairly wide :shock: to accept all our really big 'coffee table' size books and our photo album cases, each of which is 33cm square. Then there's the allowance for the 6mm sliding door track, the back panel and a bit of slack in case of cock-ups :eusa-whistle: In actual fact it's not much bigger than...

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....than the original and will take up almost exactly the same amount of floor space as the teak one isn't pushed right into the corner of the lounge - Rob
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Re: Bookcase WIP - Substrates & Lippings

Postby Andyp » 30 Apr 2019, 19:59

Woodbloke wrote:..... I removed the fence from the router table and each was milled to an exact width of 360m:


Sorry :)
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Re: Bookcase WIP - Substrates & Lippings

Postby Woodbloke » 02 May 2019, 16:43

The mitred end lippings are then applied individually; note that the mitre is supported on the long side as pressure is applied to the end piece. I use a good slathering of glue as long grain is being applied to end grain.

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All the lippings are then cleaned up; my preferred method is a 2" wooden jack to munch off most of the material, followed by a LA bevel up and finally finishing with a No.60 scraper plane (with a cambered blade) to take of the last whispy shavings....

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No matter how it's done, all the lippings must end up dead level with the substrate - Rob
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Re: Bookcase WIP -The Veneers

Postby Woodbloke » 04 May 2019, 18:52

Ensure that one face and one side are planed true and square; these are the two faces that rest against the fence and the table. As each veneer is sliced off, it will then have one sawn face and one planed. Always use a new blade as well.

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Each time a veneer is sawn, these two faces need to be re-machined on the p/t, hence the widest veneer that can be accurately sawn is the width of the planer bed.

Check that the bs is set up accurately; blade properly aligned, as tight as it will go (max tension) square to the table and the fence also square to the table. Check also that there's no 'drift' in the fence, ie it should be parallel to the blade'

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Take it very slow and steady when sawing; to much enthusiasm will cause the blade to go 'wibbly wobbly' and ruin the cut.

If needed, number the veneers as they're produced;

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To do a really decent job, the veneers need to be drum sanded. The bandsaw will produce reasonable accurate veneers, but there's always some variation in thickness as the blade wears:

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Jointing next - Rob
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Re: Bookcase WIP - Cutting the Veneers

Postby DaveL » 04 May 2019, 19:34

I do like the rays in the cut veneers, very nice. :eusa-clap:

I think you may of typoed the scraper plane number, I think it is a number 80, a 60 in a block plane. :o
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Re: Bookcase WIP - Cutting the Veneers

Postby Malc2098 » 04 May 2019, 19:53

Nice rays.
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Re: Bookcase WIP - Cutting the Veneers

Postby Woodbloke » 04 May 2019, 20:11

DaveL wrote:I do like the rays in the cut veneers, very nice. :eusa-clap:

I think you may of typoed the scraper plane number, I think it is a number 80, a 60 in a block plane. :o

Indeed Dave...blame insomnia :( - Rob
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Re: Bookcase WIP - Cutting the Veneers

Postby Woodbloke » 09 May 2019, 17:47

There's been a 'hitch' :eusa-whistle: ...normal service resumed whenever :D Not bandsaw fodder quite yet - Rob
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Re: Bookcase WIP - Cutting the Veneers

Postby Andyp » 09 May 2019, 17:48

Dont worry Rob, without a photo it never happened :D
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Re: Bookcase WIP - Cutting the Veneers

Postby Doug » 09 May 2019, 18:40

Just out of interest have you got movement in the old pine boards, I ask as I’ve found these to be a bugger for moving even old ones :(
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Re: Bookcase WIP - Cutting the Veneers

Postby Woodbloke » 09 May 2019, 19:41

Doug wrote:Just out of interest have you got movement in the old pine boards, I ask as I’ve found these to be a bugger for moving even old ones :(

Nope, these were from an old Argos bedroom suite that I dismembered a couple of weeks ago. They'd been in the house for at least fifteen years and were as dry as a dry thing :D - Rob
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Re: Bookcase WIP - Cutting the Veneers

Postby Mike G » 09 May 2019, 20:20

Finally caught up with this (I've been abroad). Thanks for doing this WIP, Rod. So far, it's relatively straightforward, given a decent bandsaw blade. Given my lack of a sanding machine, Is the alternative to lay the planed face down, and plane the upper face afterwards (when the glue has dried)?
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Re: Bookcase WIP - Cutting the Veneers

Postby Rod » 10 May 2019, 14:50

That’s what I do Mike, using double sided tape to hold it onto another board whilst passing through the PT . The “mother” board is put through the PT to get a good surface again before cutting a new veneer.

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Re: Bookcase WIP - Cutting the Veneers

Postby RogerM » 10 May 2019, 16:46

Mike G wrote:Finally caught up with this (I've been abroad). Thanks for doing this WIP, Rod. So far, it's relatively straightforward, given a decent bandsaw blade. Given my lack of a sanding machine, Is the alternative to lay the planed face down, and plane the upper face afterwards (when the glue has dried)?


I guess it depends on how big the piece is, but if you are using multiple veneers I can't see that working well. I used to prepare one face using the p/t and then place that against the fence on the bandsaw to cut a veneer. The remaining "mother" board would go through the p/t again to take off just enough to get another good surface and I'd cut another veneer until I had what I needed. When I had enough veneers cut for the job I'd put them on an mfc sled. That had a thin piece of veneer glued to the surface at 90 deg across one end as a "stop" and then I'd pass all the veneers through the p/t until I had a smooth surface. Remember that they all have to come down to the thickness of the thinnest veneer.

In practice, I found that anything much less than 2mm thick would sometimes break up in the p/t which would be a real bummer if you're book matching! With hindsight, I think a sled with one surface covered with (say) 160 grit alum oxide paper would have gripped the veneer better. Whilst I like the sound of Rod's double sided tape idea, I would be nervous about splitting the veneer when removing it from the sled. Once everything is glued down it was just a case of cleaning up the joints with a cabinet scraper and run a ROS over the whole thing.

As I mentioned in the sunburst table thread, a drum sander is a real "game changer" when you're veneering as this will take veneers down to 0.5mm if you're careful. Rob and I have Jet 16-32's which are fabulous bits of kit, and come up on Ebay and Gumtree reasonably regularly for around £750. With all the dosh you've saved on your "BIG BUILD" you must have earned one by now! :eusa-dance: :lol:
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Re: Bookcase WIP - Cutting the Veneers

Postby Mike G » 10 May 2019, 17:14

RogerM wrote:............. a drum sander is a real "game changer" when you're veneering as this will take veneers down to 0.5mm if you're careful. Rob and I have Jet 16-32's which are fabulous bits of kit, and come up on Ebay and Gumtree reasonably regularly for around £750. With all the dosh you've saved on your "BIG BUILD" you must have earned one by now! :eusa-dance: :lol:


:lol: :lol: I like my workshop to have plenty of free floorspace. More kit? Not sure.......
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Re: Bookcase WIP - Cutting the Veneers

Postby RogerM » 10 May 2019, 17:31

Mike G wrote:
RogerM wrote:............. a drum sander is a real "game changer" when you're veneering as this will take veneers down to 0.5mm if you're careful. Rob and I have Jet 16-32's which are fabulous bits of kit, and come up on Ebay and Gumtree reasonably regularly for around £750. With all the dosh you've saved on your "BIG BUILD" you must have earned one by now! :eusa-dance: :lol:


:lol: :lol: I like my workshop to have plenty of free floorspace. More kit? Not sure.......


Floorspace? Yeh - I'm goin' to get me one of them! Got about 450 sq ft at the moment. Another 800 sq ft would just about do it! :lol:
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Re: Bookcase WIP - Cutting the Veneers

Postby Woodbloke » 10 May 2019, 21:17

Mike G wrote:
RogerM wrote:............. a drum sander is a real "game changer" when you're veneering as this will take veneers down to 0.5mm if you're careful. Rob and I have Jet 16-32's which are fabulous bits of kit, and come up on Ebay and Gumtree reasonably regularly for around £750. With all the dosh you've saved on your "BIG BUILD" you must have earned one by now! :eusa-dance: :lol:


:lol: :lol: I like my workshop to have plenty of free floorspace. More kit? Not sure.......

If you're going to get one more bit of kit, then a drum sander has GOT to be it. I don't know how the bloody hell I ever managed without one!

Edit - the gaff was in the support offered to the mdf baseboard inside the bag. It was insufficiently supported and was bowing under it's own weight; hence anything inside the bag was taking on the same shape as the baseboard. Reverse cramping the affected components has all but eliminated the 'bow'. I've spent the last 24hrs making a much more substantial supporting frame for the baseboard which ought to prevent it from bowing - Rob
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Re: Bookcase WIP - Cutting the Veneers

Postby Woodbloke » 11 May 2019, 12:31

Mike G wrote:Finally caught up with this (I've been abroad). Thanks for doing this WIP, Rod. So far, it's relatively straightforward, given a decent bandsaw blade. Given my lack of a sanding machine, Is the alternative to lay the planed face down, and plane the upper face afterwards (when the glue has dried)?

Yep, you can do that, but then you're a bit stuck if you want to bookmatch the veneers as one of them will have to go sawn side down. This isn't a grand idea 'cos there will be all sorts of cavities and spaces on the sawn face which may prevent a decent bond, but you can in some way circumvent this issue by using plenty of glue - Rob
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Re: Bookcase WIP - Making the 'Lay-Up'

Postby Woodbloke » 11 May 2019, 13:20

Once you've sorted out the pattern for the veneers, use a cabinetmaker's triangle to indicate which way they're laid.

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Each pair of mating edges then need to be made dead true, straight and square. I use a veneer shoot (two bits of melamine faced chipboard screwed together) and...

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...'Big Woody' with a 71cm Greenheart sole. Make sure the plane's cutter is dead square and true across the width of the sole...no camber! The other way to do this is to use a known straight edge (ie the edge of a bit of mdf fresh from a 'shed') and bearing cut the veneers with a router.

I cramp a couple of supports to the shoot to stabilise the veneer as the edge is being planed.

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To test for a fit, lay one piece against the shoot and offer the second piece up to it, testing with finger pressure to check for a high spot (the two pieces will pivot) or a minute gap in the middle (MkI eyeball needed). Plane and adjust taking a fine shaving or two where required until the joint line is perfick :D. Repeat for all the joints in the lay-up.

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Use a really good quality, very stretchy tape to pull the joints together. I use Scotch...

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...which is great, but Tesa and 3M are equally as good. Do NOT under any circumstances attempt to use el cheapo, light tack, decorators tape...parsimonious is not what you need to be :D

Butt the first section against the shoot and stick a goodly piece of tape to the second, then really pull the tape towards the shoot, stretching it as far as it will go, stick down and then use a roller to make sure that the tape is fully down:

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Repeat the process all the way along the joint:

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To complete the joint, use some proper gummed veneer tape along the length. This will shrink as it dries and pull the joint even more 'righty tighty'; the reason for using tape along the length will be shown in the next thrilling instalment :lol: Note the wet kitchen sponge in a plastic pot, used for wetting the sticky side of the veneer tape:

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Finally, repeat for all the joints in the lay-up:

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You can also use a single piece of 3M tape each time to pull all the leaves together in one 'hit' rather than do the joints individually as shown.

Gluing next - Rob
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Re: Bookcase WIP - Making the 'Lay-Up'

Postby Mike G » 11 May 2019, 13:54

I know gluing comes next, so I'm jumping the gun a bit, but is there any glue on the joint between veneer pieces?
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