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Benches & Chests

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Benches & Chests

Postby kirkpoore1 » 14 Sep 2014, 06:44

I meant to post pictures of some trestles I was building--and then stopped taking the pics halfway through. So I decided to post as I went along this time, so that I would keep with it. The items are a pair of medieval benches and a pair of six board chests, all in red oak.

I started with four 1x12 oak planks, all just shy of 10' long:
Image
Since the one on the right is severely checked for most of it's length, I'll also be using part of a 1x12 leftover from another project.

First thing was cut the planks to reasonable lengths. I've only got room to run a 7' board through my jointer, so I cut them down so no pieces were longer than about 5'. This was the resulting pile:
Image

The jointer itself is a 20" Crescent, probably from around 1920. This has a 4 knife cutterhead and babbitt bearings, with a 5 hp motor:
Image

With enough power, face jointing a 12" board was no problem:
Image
Note that the fence is moved well forward, so the jointer looks narrower than it really is. I did this so that I could get more even wear on the knives. At about a dollar an inch (~$80 total), I want to get all the life I can before they need to be sharpened.

From there the boards went to the thicknesser, an 18" Oliver 399 from about 1950. Infeed:
Image

And the same board on the outfeed side:
Image

The pile as it is right now:
Image
I filled up my dust collector bin, so stopped for the night. I've got 1/16" to go for most of the pieces, which I'll do in two passes to minimize tearout. Then I'll cut these to rough length, joint one edge, make the final cuts, and plane some of them down to 1/2" in thickness.

More later...

Kirk
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Re: Benches & Chests

Postby Mike G » 14 Sep 2014, 07:22

You've got some awesome machinery there Kirk!

I'm not a big fan of red oak, to put it mildly, but I'm watching this with interest.
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Re: Benches & Chests

Postby Phil » 14 Sep 2014, 07:56

Mike G wrote:You've got some awesome machinery there Kirk!



+1! In those days they were built solid to last a few liftimes if looked after.


Mike G wrote:
I'm not a big fan of red oak, to put it mildly, but I'm watching this with interest.


Worked with some White Oak. The PT blades need to be very sharp.

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Re: Benches & Chests

Postby Wizard9999 » 14 Sep 2014, 08:21

Phil wrote:
Mike G wrote:You've got some awesome machinery there Kirk!



+1! In those days they were built solid to last a few liftimes if looked after.



:text-+1: from me, your kit looks awesome!

Looking to see what you turn out with it.

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Re: Benches & Chests

Postby TrimTheKing » 14 Sep 2014, 09:15

I want those machines!!! :obscene-drinkingcheers:

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Re: Benches & Chests

Postby DaveL » 14 Sep 2014, 13:23

Yes the old kit is very nice, I have a Wadkin AGS only a little one but its my favorite machine in the shop.
Regards,
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Re: Benches & Chests

Postby 9fingers » 14 Sep 2014, 14:53

Kirk, What is the device on the right hand end of the blade guard? Looks a bit like and ash tray :lol:
Maybe some sort of miniature pork chop guard perhaps? I've always like the idea of that sort of guard but never got round to adapting my jointer to take one.
I ought to have a go as it was a jointer behind the story that got me the name of 9 fingers although I now have all 10 functioning once more thanks to some clever surgery.

Cheers

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Re: Benches & Chests

Postby kirkpoore1 » 14 Sep 2014, 16:48

9fingers wrote:Kirk, What is the device on the right hand end of the blade guard? Looks a bit like and ash tray :lol:
Maybe some sort of miniature pork chop guard perhaps? I've always like the idea of that sort of guard but never got round to adapting my jointer to take one.
I ought to have a go as it was a jointer behind the story that got me the name of 9 fingers although I now have all 10 functioning once more thanks to some clever surgery.

Cheers

Bob


Bob:

Here's the jointer guard again:
Image
This is a Surty guard. As far as I know, nobody ever copied it. When edge jointing, it will swing out of the way like a pork chop guard. When face jointing as above, it rides up and over the wood. The only time it's really impractical is when you're trying to use the rabbeting ledge on jointer--but almost nobody does that any more so that hasn't been a problem for me. As far as I'm concerned, the Surty is the best jointer guard ever built.:)

Oh, on the finger front: My grandfather lost the first two knuckles of his index finger to a jointer by holding the back edge of the board. And the really bad part is he did it twice. :shock: I made sure I learned from his example not to do that.

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Re: Benches & Chests

Postby 9fingers » 14 Sep 2014, 16:53

Thanks Kirk
I think one of those needs to go on to my round tuit list.
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Re: Benches & Chests

Postby kirkpoore1 » 14 Sep 2014, 18:51

Well, I got some done this morning, but was delayed by a couple of mechanical problems. First, I couldn't get the jointer to start. Babbitt bearings don't do well in the cold, and it's been unusually cold here for the last week. After tripping the circuit breaker on my phase converter trying to get it to start, I finally put some really light oil into the bearings, and it finally spun up. This let me edge joint the planks, giving this picture of how the Surty guard work in this situation:
Image

After jointing, I squared up and cut the boards to length on my RAS:
Image

Both of these operations were delayed when the remote on switch on my Oneida dust collector failed. This is more than an inconvenience since the manual switch is a little out of reach:
Image

Yes, it's really 11 feet off the ground. I should have located it further down the wall, but that would have required all new wiring when I installed it and I didn't have any on hand. I was able to start it with the hook I use to open my clerestory windows.

Here's the offending item with the lid off:
Image
Now, here's the question for Bob: Should I try to source a replacement button and solder it into place, or junk the whole remote and replace it with something else? The Off button still works. I want a remote, not just a set of on/off buttons on the wall which I could easily install. Over on Sawmill Creek they've discussed replacing these since the Oneida remotes are notoriously unreliable. I've had a little experience soldering, but not much on a circuit board. And I don't know where to find the right size switch--I'm sure being off by a millimeter in any dimension will be a deal killer.

Thanks...

Kirk
In for lunch and then back out for more cutting...
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Re: Benches & Chests

Postby 9fingers » 14 Sep 2014, 19:08

Completely standard part Kirk. The pin spacing will be 0.2'' or 5mm. Two pins are used for each pole of the switch. Fitting it 90degrees out will cause a problem measure twice solder once!
The button come in a range of lengths - check this when you order
Are radio shack still going? Or maybe mouser? Not up to speed with USA component sources.
If you get stuck I could send you something but I'm inFrance at the moment and back at the end of the month
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Re: Benches & Chests

Postby kirkpoore1 » 14 Sep 2014, 20:27

9fingers wrote:Completely standard part Kirk. The pin spacing will be 0.2'' or 5mm. Two pins are used for each pole of the switch. Fitting it 90degrees out will cause a problem measure twice solder once!
The button come in a range of lengths - check this when you order
Are radio shack still going? Or maybe mouser? Not up to speed with USA component sources.
If you get stuck I could send you something but I'm inFrance at the moment and back at the end of the month
Cheers
Bob


I went to the Radio Shack a mile from my house--no luck. Oneida will sell me a new remote for $35, but I'm not ready to bite on that just yet.

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Re: Benches & Chests

Postby 9fingers » 14 Sep 2014, 20:35

kirkpoore1 wrote:
9fingers wrote:Completely standard part Kirk. The pin spacing will be 0.2'' or 5mm. Two pins are used for each pole of the switch. Fitting it 90degrees out will cause a problem measure twice solder once!
The button come in a range of lengths - check this when you order
Are radio shack still going? Or maybe mouser? Not up to speed with USA component sources.
If you get stuck I could send you something but I'm inFrance at the moment and back at the end of the month
Cheers
Bob


I went to the Radio Shack a mile from my house--no luck. Oneida will sell me a new remote for $35, but I'm not ready to bite on that just yet.

Kirk


Try here http://www.digikey.co.uk/product-search ... ageSize=25

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Re: Benches & Chests

Postby TheTiddles » 14 Sep 2014, 21:04

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Last edited by TheTiddles on 02 Nov 2014, 13:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Benches & Chests

Postby kirkpoore1 » 15 Sep 2014, 01:20

I did get some stuff done this afternoon besides chasing parts for my DC remote control:

Bench leg cutout:
Image

Rail cut out:
Image

Image
So here's what I got cut out this afternoon--8 legs and four rails. All pieces are planed to thickness, and I have mortising on the bench tops and dadoing on the chest legs, rounding the top edges, and of course sanding on everything. If I can get a few hours in during the evenings this week, I may be able to finish them next weekend.

I could have worked more this evening, but somebody was demanding his time:
Image

Image

Image
Pretty decent air time for a hundred pound dog.:)

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Re: Benches & Chests

Postby Wizard9999 » 15 Sep 2014, 09:35

Those legs look pretty sturdy, and the bench legs look fine as well :lol:
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Re: Benches & Chests

Postby Rod » 15 Sep 2014, 10:59

What sort of pooch is that - a long legged chocolate Labrador?

Do you make to order or sell on spec (speculation)?

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Re: Benches & Chests

Postby kirkpoore1 » 15 Sep 2014, 13:18

Rod wrote:What sort of pooch is that - a long legged chocolate Labrador?

Do you make to order or sell on spec (speculation)?

Rod


He's a Chesapeake Bay retriever. A year and a half old bundle of energy.

Most of my stuff is on spec. I do customize the decoration and will also build to order. The build to order stuff is great because it keeps me from getting bored.

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Benches & Chests

Postby Rod » 15 Sep 2014, 15:06

I don't think I've seen that breed over here - looks nice

Rod

Ps I was wrong - there's quite an active CBR society over here with 150 puppies born each year.
Seem to be used a lot as working dogs?
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Re: Benches & Chests

Postby kirkpoore1 » 15 Sep 2014, 17:18

Rod wrote:I don't think I've seen that breed over here - looks nice

Rod

Ps I was wrong - there's quite an active CBR society over here with 150 puppies born each year.
Seem to be used a lot as working dogs?


Yes, they're generally used as gun dogs. My last one would retrieve out of the water until he fell over from fatigue. I haven't really tried the limits on this one--I got tired of throwing the float into the lake for him after half an hour.:) He needs more socialization with other dogs though--he sounds very aggressive with them but generally just wants to play hard. I don't hunt, so his job is to get me outside and do stuff in the yard or get exercise by walking or running.

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Re: Benches & Chests

Postby kirkpoore1 » 16 Sep 2014, 04:11

OK, the next step was to mortise the bench tops. This is perhaps the most critical step in either type of project because it determines the leg angle, which affects both the looks (different leg angles look funny) and sturdiness (the splay of the legs helps prevent racking). All this requires a couple of machines not found in most hobby shops--a tilt table mortiser and an overarm router.

First thing was to lay out the mortise locations on the top surface of the bench tops:
Image
The mortises are 4" from each end of the 22" long bench. The center finding ruler makes it easy to ensure the mortises are placed evenly. Then it's a matter of drawing:
Image
This marks the mortise endpoints.

Next is to set up the mortiser. This is a Greenlee 227 autofeed mortiser, built in 1928. It has a 4 hp head motor and a 2 hp drive motor in the back. As I said above, the legs are angled, so I needed to make angled mortises:
Image
The table is tilted 7 degrees to the left here.

The setup requires a jig. These will be through mortises, so I can't just put the workpiece on the table. Also, because of the angle, the normal left-right table traverse can't be used, so I have to move the table in and out. So the workpiece has to be firmly held, and the jig itself clamped in place:
Image
The jig has a back fence and an end fence, both with 3/4" dadoes in them to hold two edges of the bench tops. There is also a groove in the base to hold a sacrificial piece of plywood, which keeps the hollow chisel from blowing out the bottom when the hole is made:
Image

After getting the jig positioned and clamped, I'm ready to mortise:
Image
Image
Image

I can only do half the holes with this jig, because the mortiser doesn't have enough reach to get both mortises on each end of the bench. So I do the diagonally opposite mortises (rotating the bench top 180 degrees), then swap over to the mirror image jig for the right tilt:
Image

And here's the results, 4 mortise in one top:
Image

Each top also has a groove in the bottom to hide the top edge of each leg. This gets done on the overarm router:
Image
I'd get cleaner results with a pattern and using the table pin, but the groove location always varies a little and it's hard to get the pattern located right. The cleanup can be done with a chisel. The router is a Duro, probably from the 1950's, and is a little crude but really gets the job done if you don't push it too hard.

Total time for setups, mortises, and grooves for two benches was about an hour and 20 minutes. Of course, most of that was setup time on the mortiser, and double or triple that number of benches would have only take a few more minutes.

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Re: Benches & Chests

Postby Rod » 16 Sep 2014, 11:17

Wicked machines!

I've never heard of the centre ruler - very useful

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Re: Benches & Chests

Postby Wizard9999 » 16 Sep 2014, 13:19

Rod wrote:Wicked machines!

I've never heard of the centre ruler - very useful

Rod


:text-+1: - But only because a 'plus 10' option doesn't exist.

Amazing machines you have Kirk. I can't wait to see pictures of the finished benches as I have a feeling they are going to be really nice.

The centre ruler also caught my eye, being a beginner I assumed it would be a common item and it was just me who had not seen one before, but maybe not. Thirty seconds on Google provided this option http://www.whittamprecisionrules.co.uk/ ... ers-6-0-6/

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Re: Benches & Chests

Postby kirkpoore1 » 16 Sep 2014, 13:30

Rod wrote:Wicked machines!

I've never heard of the centre ruler - very useful

Rod


Here's one, though mine is a 24" and they don't seem to carry it anymore:
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.a ... at=1,43513

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Re: Benches & Chests

Postby Rod » 16 Sep 2014, 13:38

Thanks Terry, I did a search but all were USA based - pity the UK one is not longer but not a bad price (though I didn't check postage)?

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