It is currently 28 Mar 2024, 10:40

Back door

This is where we don't want anything but evidence of your finest wood butchering in all its glorious, and photograph laden glory. Bring your finished products or WIP's, we love them all, so long as there's pictures, and plenty of 'em!

Back door

Postby RogerS » 16 Sep 2019, 09:15

Folks may remember me posting in another thread about making something similar to this door.

Image

After thinking about it a lot and looking at other contemporaneous doors, I came to the conclusion that it was an optical illusion and that the design was of the more traditional variety with inset panels rather than flush. That then led to a much simpler construction - or so I thought.

I also decided that this door would be my first (and last!) door made in the traditional fashion with 'real' joints. Haunched tenons an' all :o

Materials

Originally I planned to use sapele for the rails and stiles but realised that located where it was, the door never had that much exposure. No direct sunlight. No rain as it was sheltered. So the sapele I'd bought was set aside for the front door which is full-on South facing.

The inset panels were to be 18mm Medite External - one level below the eye-wateringly expensive Medite Tricoya - and glued into a simple rebate as opposed to a groove in the rails and stiles - the logic being that if the glue joint became compromised then water would sit in that groove in the rails and eventually rot them. By gluing into a rebate any water ingress had a chance of getting away.

Design

The aspect ratio of Georgian doors tended to be wider and squatter than today's doors - the average height of a man back then was only around 5ft 5inches (5ft 9inches today). Our existing door opening was of the modern aspect ratio and so to give the impression of a squatter door, the rails were widened up a lot.

Image

Joints

Haunched tenons. Double tenons. All pretty much as Coley's door. Thing is though measuring them up and deciding on dimensions etc needed a bit of thought and so I used SketchUp. Here's just a couple. For some reason, I decided not to fit the Medite panels centred on the centre-line of the rails and stiles - a decision that I would later come to regret.

Image

Image


Also for strength and because I didn't want to compromise the joint of the lock rail (and also from an ergonomic perspective), I decided that the door lock would be located in the stile above the lock rail.

The one advantage of using something like SketchUp is that to model the corresponding joint in the stiles, all you have to do is bring a 'blank' stile into the right place relative to each rail and then simply do an Intersect with Selection and bingo...the mortice etc in the stiles are created for you.

Image

Well, on paper. Still got to make them.

Tenons

Lots of ways of making tenons -

    bandsaw (mine wasn’t man enough),

    by hand (too onerous…besides my thumbs aren’t that great for holding hand tools),

    table saw (no jig and besides the lengths were too unwieldy IMO)

    cross-cut mitre saw with trenching capability (do-able but requiring a fair bit of clean up afterwards with hand tools)

    spindle moulder (my preferred option).

With the spindle moulder, if you don’t have a tenoning head (I didn’t), then the next best option is a block with a countersunk centre bolt where you can fly the tenon over the top of the spindle shaft to get the length that you need on the tenon. That was when I discovered that the tapped thread on the Hammer spindle mandated a special washer that wasn't easily available on the market and certainly not for my existing block.

Luckily for us we have a top chap called Bob who kindly made me up the appropriate washer for my block. So good to go. Um…no. I discovered that limitations of the Hammer spindle guard meant that it couldn’t be pushed back far enough to give me the cutting length that I needed. :(

So..what to do ? Part do it on the mitre saw and finish on the spindle ? Or jury rig some sort of guard to use in place of the Hammer spindle guard and do it all on the spindle moulder. Or be very, very, very careful and simply remove the Hammer spindle guard, take maximum advantage of the sliding table to clamp the rail to, keep all body parts well clear and JFDI. I chose the latter.

…to be continued
If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door.
User avatar
RogerS
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 13283
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Nearly finished. OK OK...call me Pinocchio.
Name:

Re: Back door

Postby 9fingers » 16 Sep 2019, 10:05

What are you using for the rails and stiles? OK not sapele you say but....

The other way to do the tenons would have been a dado blade but I suspect your hammer wont take one.

Bob
Information on induction motors here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dBTVXx ... sp=sharing
Email:motors@minchin.org.uk
User avatar
9fingers
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 10035
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 20:22
Location: Romsey Hampshire between Southampton and the New Forest
Name: Bob

Re: Back door

Postby RogerS » 16 Sep 2019, 10:56

9fingers wrote:What are you using for the rails and stiles? OK not sapele you say but....

....

Bob


Unsorted redwood.
If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door.
User avatar
RogerS
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 13283
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Nearly finished. OK OK...call me Pinocchio.
Name:

Re: Back door

Postby MJ80 » 16 Sep 2019, 12:44

You could build a quick tenoning hood for the moulder, a basic open fronted box with an adjustable guard above the cutter. Fixes to the machine with the using the existing mounting holes so you can adjust back and forth for depth of cut.
MJ80
Sapling
 
Posts: 323
Joined: 13 Sep 2016, 19:21
Name:

Re: Back door

Postby MJ80 » 16 Sep 2019, 12:46

I've just reread the end of the post. You took the squeaky option.
MJ80
Sapling
 
Posts: 323
Joined: 13 Sep 2016, 19:21
Name:

Re: Back door

Postby RogerS » 16 Sep 2019, 13:58

MJ80 wrote:I've just reread the end of the post. You took the squeaky option.
:D

Actually it was not as scary as it sounds. The sliding table on the Hammer is very good and I could clamp down the workpiece very securely. So my hands were at least 18" away and not holding onto the workpiece at all.

I'm only too aware of what a poorly clamped workpiece can do as on my old spindle moulder, I had a spelch block between the workpiece and the crosscut fence but it wasn't securely fastened. As it was fed into the moulder, the cutter block grabbed it, pulled it out from the fence and fired it straight through the extract hole at the rear of the guard, through the extraction hose and buried it in the plasterboard wall behind.
If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door.
User avatar
RogerS
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 13283
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Nearly finished. OK OK...call me Pinocchio.
Name:

Re: Back door

Postby Woodbloke » 16 Sep 2019, 16:21

RogerS wrote:
I'm only too aware of what a poorly clamped workpiece can do as on my old spindle moulder, I had a spelch block between the workpiece and the crosscut fence but it wasn't securely fastened. As it was fed into the moulder, the cutter block grabbed it, pulled it out from the fence and fired it straight through the extract hole at the rear of the guard, through the extraction hose and buried it in the plasterboard wall behind.

That's quite a good SM tale Rog :lol: At a firm I was working for some years ago, one of the lads was using a pillar drill which was located next to a convenient wall and around 15' or so from the SM. The chap using the SM hadn't secured one of the cutters sufficiently which then became loose and departed the block; the cutter then buried itself in the wall next to the pillar drill and about 300mm from the operator's bonce :D - Rob
I no longer work for Axminster Tools & Machinery.
User avatar
Woodbloke
Sequoia
 
Posts: 5865
Joined: 22 Jul 2014, 10:06
Location: Salisbury, UK
Name:

Re: Back door

Postby Coley » 17 Sep 2019, 13:16

Is your bottom rail having double tenons and also double haunches Roger ? I'm guessing that top picture is the middle rail ?

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
User avatar
Coley
Sapling
 
Posts: 330
Joined: 26 Jul 2014, 20:03
Name:

Re: Back door

Postby RogerS » 17 Sep 2019, 15:15

Coley wrote:Is your bottom rail having double tenons and also double haunches Roger ? I'm guessing that top picture is the middle rail ?

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


Double 'Yes' :D
If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door.
User avatar
RogerS
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 13283
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Nearly finished. OK OK...call me Pinocchio.
Name:

Re: Back door

Postby RogerS » 18 Sep 2019, 07:57

I prefer to cut the shoulders using the trenching facility on my mitre saw as I know that the cut will be bang on 90 degrees in both axes.
Image

And to make sure that I get the correct offset, I like to use a stop and a spacer that is simply put in and out at the end to give me the right offset for making the opposing shoulder cut on the mitre saw.
Image

And to do all the rails at the same time since it's all set up. That top rail cut looks on a skew but it's the camera.
Image

After spindle moulding and an initial cut of the tenons
Image

Getting there slowly ..I like to mark up where the rebate is going to help me orientate things.
Image

Image

The rebates were initially hogged out on the table saw although TBH no reason why I couldn't have done it all on the spindle moulder in one pass. Would have saved time in hindsight.

Image

Image

Mortices cut using the morticer...nothing much to see there TBH. And then start to fettle the joints....

...which is when it all went T's Up.

...to be continued
If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door.
User avatar
RogerS
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 13283
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Nearly finished. OK OK...call me Pinocchio.
Name:

Re: Back door

Postby Coley » 18 Sep 2019, 13:27

Looking good Generally i'll do the rebates in the stiles first then have a spare practice tenon to get the step in the shoulders right.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
User avatar
Coley
Sapling
 
Posts: 330
Joined: 26 Jul 2014, 20:03
Name:

Re: Back door

Postby RogerS » 22 Sep 2019, 16:42

Remember I mentioned that the Medite panels were located off the centre-line of the rails and stiles ? Which naturally meant that the tenons were also off the centre-line by the same amount. And so were the mortices in the stiles. Only …….only I inadvertently flipped the stiles (which had already been rebated) and so the offset went in the opposite direction to the tenons. :evil:

What to do ? If I had separates, it would have been a no-brainer to redo the stiles but on a combination machine it really is a humungous PITA. So I decided to bodge it and enlarge the mortices to match the tenons and insert some packing pieces and a liberal dose of West epoxy + filler.

Image

Image

You may be wondering where the red has come from …
Image

To see where the mortice needs fettling I use these

Image

Anyone know what they are ? It’s what dentists use to check your bite after a filling.

So fast forward…door frame (rails and tiles) glued up but panels left out to make the door easier to work with and carry. Those inflatable door wedges are brilliant when fitting the door. I remembered to cut the mortice out for the door lock and also for the two securing bolts - top and bottom. The middle door hinge isn't really in the best place..needs to be a little bit higher but it was where the original hinge was ...and I was running out of time to get the door fitted and the Medite panels glued in before nightfall.

I can’t for the life of me recall what those small wedges were used for - bottom LH of the photo !

Do you like the skirting board? I had some spare kitchen plinths and so cannibalised them into skirting boards to match the kitchen units. Smart, huh ?

Image

The bottom rail needed a rebate to match a new door threshold. The old door threshold was knackered and needed replacing. I originally bought this one but once I’d seen it concluded that it was completely wrong for an old house.

Image

So I glued up a couple of old maple floorboards, inset a small strip of aluminium and added some draught excluder. I think the result is much more in keeping.
Image

Image

I didn’t have the right size plug cutter - hence the bare screw - a TUIT for another day.

So finished result…

Image

Image

Image
If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door.
User avatar
RogerS
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 13283
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Nearly finished. OK OK...call me Pinocchio.
Name:

Re: Back door

Postby Malc2098 » 22 Sep 2019, 17:41

Nice job!
Malcolm
User avatar
Malc2098
Sequoia
 
Posts: 7207
Joined: 03 Jul 2016, 11:10
Location: Tiverton
Name: Malcolm

Re: Back door

Postby Woodbloke » 22 Sep 2019, 18:11

Agreed, nice job and a couple of good 'saves' to boot; will there be enough material on the underside to prevent the inrush of the 'wet stuff' (not that you get a great deal 'oop narth' :D) - Rob
I no longer work for Axminster Tools & Machinery.
User avatar
Woodbloke
Sequoia
 
Posts: 5865
Joined: 22 Jul 2014, 10:06
Location: Salisbury, UK
Name:

Re: Back door

Postby RogerS » 22 Sep 2019, 18:18

Woodbloke wrote:Agreed, nice job and a couple of good 'saves' to boot; will there be enough material on the underside to prevent the inrush of the 'wet stuff' (not that you get a great deal 'oop narth' :D) - Rob


Thanks, Rob.

The bottom seal is very tight now and so I'm not concerned about water inrush...didn't even bother to fit one of them water-drooper thingies at the bottom of the door ! It's all angled downwards and away. Which reminds me that the door mouldings I applied after the panels had been fitted (from the inside) are such that water runs off them and down the door. But as you can see in the photo, there's that overhang to keep direct rain away.
If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door.
User avatar
RogerS
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 13283
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Nearly finished. OK OK...call me Pinocchio.
Name:

Re: Back door

Postby Jonathan » 22 Sep 2019, 19:37

Rodger, lovely door well done, hope the wife likes it!

With the door knob would of been nice to see an old deep horizontal lock in the horizontal rail .....helps keep your knuckles away from the frame.....guess I'm a purists!

Jonathan

Sent from my SM-J530F using Tapatalk
Jonathan
Sapling
 
Posts: 294
Joined: 26 Jul 2017, 06:44
Name:

Re: Back door

Postby RogerS » 22 Sep 2019, 21:25

Jonathan wrote:Rodger, lovely door well done, hope the wife likes it!

With the door knob would of been nice to see an old deep horizontal lock in the horizontal rail .....helps keep your knuckles away from the frame.....guess I'm a purists!

Jonathan

Sent from my SM-J530F using Tapatalk


Fair point re knuckles but as far as I could see, all those locks were surface mounted. Otherwise you destroy the joint !

SWMBO really does like it ..so that's a plus !
If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door.
User avatar
RogerS
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 13283
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Nearly finished. OK OK...call me Pinocchio.
Name:

Re: Back door

Postby Robert » 22 Sep 2019, 22:44

There was something bothering me about the door and it was pointed out in the post above - which I read just after I had worked it out for myself... the handle position relative to the door edge. As you say you had reasons.

That aside it looks really good! Like how the mix of panel heights look together.
Robert
Old Oak
 
Posts: 2489
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 19:31
Location: Woodford Green
Name: Robert


Return to Projects & WIP

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests