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Krenov lamp

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Krenov lamp

Postby Steve Maskery » 03 Jan 2021, 17:03

I must be mad.

THere is a corner of my Gentleman's Residence that is a bit dark. Sure I have a ceiling light, but I prefer the floor lamp and table lamp combo. But they leave me with dark corner at one end of the sofa. Now I do have a redumdant Mother-and-Child lamp in my office, but it would look out of place, so it's an opportunity to make something I've had in my head for a very, very long time.

Once upon a time there was a gentleman called James Krenov. He was best known for his Cabinet-on-Stand creations.There are some pictures of his work here.

However he also made some clocks. This one was once on the back cover of FWW magazine. It's crying out to be interpreted as a lamp, so here is my interpretation.

krenov lamp.png
(67.94 KiB)


If anyone can tell me why that image has a black backgound when, on my computer, it is white, I'd be interested to know.

There will be a swivel joint half way up so that the lamp can be over my right shoulder or my left.

So there are only 4 wooden components, how hard can it be?
Last edited by Steve Maskery on 03 Jan 2021, 17:25, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Krenov lamp

Postby Woodbloke » 03 Jan 2021, 17:15

Steve Maskery wrote:I must be mad.

There will be a swivel joint half way up so that the lamp can be over my right shoulder or my left.

So there are only 4 wooden components, how hard can it be?

Doable Steve, but ticklishly tricky :lol: Personally, I would keep the rear leg straight as in JK's original; having it splayed as in your interpretation reminds me of a Triffid :lol: Quite how you do the swivel joint will also be interesting!

I would also, definitely and without question make a full sized laminated mock-up in pine. Apart from that, it's a piece of cake; Sunday afternoon job! :eusa-whistle: :eusa-liar: - Rob
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Re: Krenov lamp

Postby Mike G » 03 Jan 2021, 17:18

Excellent, Steve. I look forward to this one. On first glance, it would appear to be quite forgiving a project. The only thing which you have to get absolutely bang-on right is the curve and mounting of the 2 secondary legs. Plus, of course, the difficulty of getting the cable up the middle.......which isn't a huge issue as I assume this will all be laminated.

What are you going to make it out of?
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Re: Krenov lamp

Postby Steve Maskery » 03 Jan 2021, 17:23

There first thing to do was to model it in Sketchup and produce some profiles on a 25mm grid.
french curves.JPG
(208.15 KiB)


I've been given 7 doors from a 1930s house. The owner said they were pitch pine. They are not, they are Douglas Fir, but beautiful stuff, the workshop smells wonderful. But at some point (1960s/70s I assume) someone thought it was a good idea to cover them with hardboard. So Ihave lots of material to use for templates. I mark out a 25mm grid with pencil gauge, panel gauge, squares and wotnot, and transfer the crossing-points.

panel gauge.JPG
(87.09 KiB)


I only need to plot one edge of the curve. The other is just an offset which I can make with my pencil gauge. The lip is detachable, revealing two pegs that can follow a curved edge.

pencil gauge.JPG
(124.5 KiB)


offset gauging.JPG
(288.81 KiB)


Bandsawn and cleaned up with a compass plane and spokeshave.

compass plane.JPG
(323.99 KiB)


first template.JPG
(284.96 KiB)


I've scrounged some insulation board, but it's only 25mm thcick, so I'm having to use DS tape to double up the thickness.

DS tape.JPG
(304.72 KiB)


I bandsawed out the formers using the inside edge of the template (my new super-duper BS DX comes into its own for a job like this - my workshop does not look like Santa's grotto, which it would have done without, despite being as cold as Santa's Grotto...), so now I have these:

finished formers.JPG
(290.02 KiB)
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Re: Krenov lamp

Postby Mike G » 03 Jan 2021, 17:28

Steve Maskery wrote:........at some point (1960s/70s I assume) someone thought it was a good idea to cover them with hardboard...........


Hardboard has saved many a period feature. Stair handrails and ballustrading were often boarded over. So were fireplaces, and, of course, doors. Thank goodness for hardboard, I say.
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Re: Krenov lamp

Postby Steve Maskery » 03 Jan 2021, 17:38

Woodbloke wrote:Doable Steve, but ticklishly tricky :lol: Personally, I would keep the rear leg straight as in JK's original; having it splayed as in your interpretation reminds me of a Triffid :lol: Quite how you do the swivel joint will also be interesting!


Oh I like the back leg curve. The swivel joint will be brass, I have a tame engineer friend.

Woodbloke wrote:I would also, definitely and without question make a full sized laminated mock-up in pine. Apart from that, it's a piece of cake; Sunday afternoon job! :eusa-whistle: :eusa-liar: - Rob


Mike G wrote:What are you going to make it out of?


My first thought was that it must be oak. But this Douglas Fir is beautiful stuff, so I think I'm going to try it with that. If it doesn't look right it will be the prototype that Rob is suggesting. I'm not sure that I can actually salvage enough from the doors, as, although they are 6'6" high, there are dowels in them at the joint positions. Yes, in the 1930s they were using dowel joinery for doors. They'll never last, cowboys.

I'm certainly going to do a practice joint. I haven't finalised in my head how the blend is going to look.

Mike G wrote:I assume this will all be laminated.

Yes. laminate a bit, rout out for the cable, laminate again. It's too cold to glue in there at the moment, so I've ordered an electric blanket. I also, for reasons with which I shall not bore you, have the National Collection of Duvets, so between the two I hope I can keep the actual glue-up in double figures.
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Re: Krenov lamp

Postby Mike G » 03 Jan 2021, 18:58

Glue it up, Steve, then tuck it under your arm and bring it into the house. My wife is well trained to accept the occasional compromise like that in order to benefit from the stuff the workshop turns out. Or, if you glue up in the morning you should be able to bring it in in the afternoon without all the clamps.
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Re: Krenov lamp

Postby Cabinetman » 03 Jan 2021, 18:59

I’m not sure how you intend to do the joint where the legs come together Steve so jfyi this is how I made the bottom of a music stand, as you can see the middle leg is removable for ease of transport - Obviously not necessary in your case. I shall follow this build with great interest, it is something I certainly would like to make for myself as I too have a dark corner, and sometimes need a light over my shoulder for when I’m reading.
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Re: Krenov lamp

Postby Steve Maskery » 03 Jan 2021, 20:08

Ian, that is so helpful, thank you. Can you show me a pic of the wider view, showing the whole joint? What happens 6" above the picture you have posted?
You little teaser, you.
:)
S
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Re: Krenov lamp

Postby Steve Maskery » 03 Jan 2021, 20:13

Ian
Looking again, it seems to me that you have your two feet at 180 degrees to each other. I want mine at 90 so the lamp can sit in a corner. But any view of your joinery would be really appreciated, thank you.
S
PS, I've just realised that 120 degrees would also work. Hmm, this is a point of detail that requires some further consideration
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Re: Krenov lamp

Postby Steve Maskery » 03 Jan 2021, 20:18

Or, in fact, any traingular angle.
What on earth have I started?
I have no doubt that, on a piece like this, the finer details will make or break it.
Aaaarrrggghhh!!!
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Re: Krenov lamp

Postby Woodbloke » 03 Jan 2021, 23:53

Steve Maskery wrote:Or, in fact, any traingular angle.
What on earth have I started?
I have no doubt that, on a piece like this, the finer details will make or break it.
Aaaarrrggghhh!!!

...which is why, in my very 'umble opinion, you need to make a full scale prototype prior to making the actual lamp. All the nasty little conundrums, problems and issues will then become instantly apparent and the ultimate solutions thereof much easier to visualise and make - Rob
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Re: Krenov lamp

Postby Cabinetman » 04 Jan 2021, 00:39

Steve Maskery wrote:Or, in fact, any traingular angle.
What on earth have I started?
I have no doubt that, on a piece like this, the finer details will make or break it.
Aaaarrrggghhh!!!

Steve that’s probably one of the truest things you’ve ever said ha ha. As luck would have it the piece in question came back into the workshop when the guy emigrated – a few years ago I can’t quite remember why but it’s still there so I will take some pictures, but in reality my piece leant backwards so the two front legs were on a flat plane, yours will want to be more at 120 degrees each, This is why I was interested to see how you would get out of this conundrum lol. Ian
Ps, I would be more worried about the swivel joint in the middle I think, that could be a serious point of weakness unless the metal rod was quite long, but with the wire going up there as well it doesn’t leave a lot of room for a rod, and how long a drill at 6mm? Can you buy?
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Re: Krenov lamp

Postby Rod » 04 Jan 2021, 01:24

On the original piece the back leg looks “intact” with the front pieces tapering into it.
Sam Maloof used all sorts methods with rods, bolts etc to seamlessly join his chair pieces together.

Of course the easy way out is to buy a Serious Reader

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Re: Krenov lamp

Postby RogerS » 04 Jan 2021, 09:40

I'm also curious as to where and how the wire goes to remain hidden.

Nice project though
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Re: Krenov lamp

Postby 9fingers » 04 Jan 2021, 10:56

RogerS wrote:I'm also curious as to where and how the wire goes to remain hidden.

Nice project though


Up one leg I presume Roger?

Hang on, three legs = Line Neutral and Earth :lol:

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Re: Krenov lamp

Postby Peri » 04 Jan 2021, 11:26

Steve Maskery wrote:I must be mad.

If anyone can tell me why that image has a black backgound when, on my computer, it is white, I'd be interested to know.


I'm guessing its a png file with the background set as 'transparent'.

Imagine it a a piece of clear paper with the lamp drawn on top, when you view the image the background will show whats 'underneath'.
Your viewer obviously has a white background, so it shows as white, but some software (including probably this forum) has trouble with transparencies, so it interprets the missing pixels as black.

In photoshop, if you had a photograph of say a living room, you could just drop the lamp picture on top of it, and only the lamp would show up - no need to do any manual masking.

Normal jpg's dont have mask (alpha) channels, so they are always 1 layer - 'what you see is what you get' :)

EDIT - like this
04-01-21-10-33-08.jpg
(27.65 KiB)
Last edited by Peri on 04 Jan 2021, 11:36, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Krenov lamp

Postby 9fingers » 04 Jan 2021, 11:30

I can confirm that it is a .png file

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Re: Krenov lamp

Postby Steve Maskery » 04 Jan 2021, 11:39

That all makes sense, thank you.
Last edited by Steve Maskery on 04 Jan 2021, 13:35, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Krenov lamp

Postby Woodbloke » 04 Jan 2021, 11:40

9fingers wrote:
Hang on, three legs = Line Neutral and Earth :lol:

Bob

Hang on a minute Bob...then you'd have three separate wires, one going up each leg, nae? That would then mean you'd have a wire coming out the bottom of each leg? Could get complicated :eusa-whistle: :lol: - Rob
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Re: Krenov lamp

Postby 9fingers » 04 Jan 2021, 12:18

Woodbloke wrote:
9fingers wrote:
Hang on, three legs = Line Neutral and Earth :lol:

Bob

Hang on a minute Bob...then you'd have three separate wires, one going up each leg, nae? That would then mean you'd have a wire coming out the bottom of each leg? Could get complicated :eusa-whistle: :lol: - Rob

Noooo. Make the legs conductive lol

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Re: Krenov lamp

Postby Peri » 04 Jan 2021, 12:21

Put the live one at the back, you'll be fine. :P
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Re: Krenov lamp

Postby novocaine » 04 Jan 2021, 12:35

if we a rewiring Steves house now so he can have a third rail on the floor, then let's not bother with wires and go with inductive coupling.


you can buy hollow m10 threaded tube Steve. you can also get threaded inserts in the same size. if you have a friendly engineer with a lathe I think it would be a fairly simply coupling for the other end, I'd draw you a picture but not right now. :)
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Re: Krenov lamp

Postby Steve Maskery » 04 Jan 2021, 13:36

Now if you are all just going to take the p.......
:)
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Re: Krenov lamp

Postby Rezi » 04 Jan 2021, 16:47

Still on the subject of the cable - how do you intend to get it past the swivel joint?
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