It is currently 28 Mar 2024, 10:04

Staircase upgrade - ...

This is where we don't want anything but evidence of your finest wood butchering in all its glorious, and photograph laden glory. Bring your finished products or WIP's, we love them all, so long as there's pictures, and plenty of 'em!

Re: Staircase upgrade

Postby Woodbloke » 21 Feb 2021, 23:39

Piece of cake Roger; you should be able to run that up before coffee :lol: - Rob
I no longer work for Axminster Tools & Machinery.
User avatar
Woodbloke
Sequoia
 
Posts: 5865
Joined: 22 Jul 2014, 10:06
Location: Salisbury, UK
Name:

Re: Staircase upgrade

Postby PAC1 » 22 Feb 2021, 10:00

Roger that is very similar to the profile as I used. AWB should make it easier to carve.
PAC1
Sapling
 
Posts: 429
Joined: 26 Nov 2020, 09:52
Name: Peter

Re: Staircase upgrade

Postby RogerS » 22 Feb 2021, 15:48

PAC1 wrote:Roger that is very similar to the profile as I used. AWB should make it easier to carve.


I'll know who to come to for advice ;)
If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door.
User avatar
RogerS
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 13283
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Nearly finished. OK OK...call me Pinocchio.
Name:

Re: Staircase upgrade

Postby RogerS » 22 Feb 2021, 15:57

I'm starting to draw up the cutters required and have stalled. If you look at the top of the handrail in the LH photo, it looks wide relative to the overall width.

Image
Almost the entire width of the handrail.


And if you look at this next photo, then the vertical rounded mould looks relatively shallow in depth. Photo RH here

Image

So maybe overall width 75mm. Vertical radius projection 8-10mm maybe ?

But if you look at the width of the top in the RH photo below, it looks much narrower relative to the overall width.
Image

Optical illusion maybe ?

Any suggestions as to the overall aspect ratio of the handrail ? I'm thinking maybe 75 x 75mm
If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door.
User avatar
RogerS
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 13283
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Nearly finished. OK OK...call me Pinocchio.
Name:

Re: Staircase upgrade

Postby spb » 22 Feb 2021, 17:56

Looking at the side profile of the volute in the right-hand side of the second picture, and eyeballing the horizontal distance from the edge to the highest point of the curve on top, it looks just slightly more than half the total height of the piece. Assuming that it's been widened slightly, but not too much, I'd say that points to an aspect ration for the handrail section that's pretty close to square if it isn't exactly.

I'd agree with optical illusion regarding the other photo, taking as read that all the pictures are of the same handrail. The top of the rounded projection on the side is well-lit from above, making it look closer to the same plane as the top than it actually is, while its actual orientation is much closer to square-on to the camera, meaning it takes up more space in the image. If you cover up the right-hand half of the right-hand image - i.e. the bottom part of the handrail closest to the camera - then the parts higher up present a more realistic idea of the actual shape.
spb
Nordic Pine
 
Posts: 569
Joined: 27 Sep 2020, 20:25
Location: Cambridge
Name: Stephen

Re: Staircase upgrade

Postby RogerS » 22 Feb 2021, 17:59

Excellent..many thanks Stephen for confirming my gut feel.
If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door.
User avatar
RogerS
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 13283
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Nearly finished. OK OK...call me Pinocchio.
Name:

Re: Staircase upgrade

Postby PAC1 » 22 Feb 2021, 19:00

Have a look at Whitehill cutters they will give you some ideas for proportions and maybe even have a standard cutter
PAC1
Sapling
 
Posts: 429
Joined: 26 Nov 2020, 09:52
Name: Peter

Re: Staircase upgrade

Postby Trevanion » 22 Feb 2021, 21:24

I've got a copy of "Mouldings and Turned Woodwork of the 16th, 17th, and 18th centuries" by Tunstall Small & Christopher Woodbridge, which is usually a pretty good reference for this kind of thing as it's a collection of 1:1 size sections and details, including handrails.

Although none look like your selected handrail (although they are similar in design), I could take a couple of pictures of the hand rail pages if you want for reference?
Image
User avatar
Trevanion
Old Oak
 
Posts: 2162
Joined: 27 Apr 2019, 19:04
Location: Pembrokeshire
Name:

Re: Staircase upgrade

Postby RogerS » 22 Feb 2021, 21:54

Trevanion wrote:I've got a copy of "Mouldings and Turned Woodwork of the 16th, 17th, and 18th centuries" by Tunstall Small & Christopher Woodbridge, which is usually a pretty good reference for this kind of thing as it's a collection of 1:1 size sections and details, including handrails.

Although none look like your selected handrail (although they are similar in design), I could take a couple of pictures of the hand rail pages if you want for reference?


Oooh...yes, please, Dan.
If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door.
User avatar
RogerS
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 13283
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Nearly finished. OK OK...call me Pinocchio.
Name:

Re: Staircase upgrade

Postby Trevanion » 22 Feb 2021, 23:21

Image

Image

Image

For Scale, No 6 on Sheet 10 is 110mm tall and 55mm wide halved, so it's a 110mm square handrail. If you want measurements of anything in particular, let me know.
Image
User avatar
Trevanion
Old Oak
 
Posts: 2162
Joined: 27 Apr 2019, 19:04
Location: Pembrokeshire
Name:

Re: Staircase upgrade

Postby AndyT » 22 Feb 2021, 23:24

That's a useful book - if only there was a free pdf available!

https://archive.org/details/mouldingsoftudor00smaluoft
--------------
Andy
User avatar
AndyT
Old Oak
 
Posts: 2364
Joined: 23 Nov 2020, 19:45
Location: Bristol
Name: Andy

Re: Staircase upgrade

Postby Trevanion » 22 Feb 2021, 23:32

AndyT wrote:That's a useful book - if only there was a free pdf available!

https://archive.org/details/mouldingsoftudor00smaluoft


I didn't realise it was that old! Mine must be a fairly recent re-print then, but mine does include the Wren and Georgian period work, not just the Tudor :D
Image
User avatar
Trevanion
Old Oak
 
Posts: 2162
Joined: 27 Apr 2019, 19:04
Location: Pembrokeshire
Name:

Re: Staircase upgrade

Postby RogerS » 23 Feb 2021, 11:03

Thanks Dan.

Project now officially on hold as I have no carving tools and everyone is out of stock of what I need. Covid? Brexit ? Both ? Technical term- cock.
If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door.
User avatar
RogerS
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 13283
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Nearly finished. OK OK...call me Pinocchio.
Name:

Re: Staircase upgrade

Postby Cabinetman » 23 Feb 2021, 11:17

No your wrong Roger, it’s not Covid or Brexit it’s the Mike G effect, he takes up carving and the whole world wants to get in on it ha ha
But actually, just short of 1000 people have looked at that carved bookcase, and how many have been inspired, versus how many sets of wood carving chisels there are likely to be for sale in the country, interesting thought that it could’ve had some effect. Ian
Cabinetman
Old Oak
 
Posts: 3195
Joined: 11 Oct 2020, 07:32
Location: Lincolnshire Wolds + Pennsylvania
Name: Ian

Re: Staircase upgrade

Postby AndyT » 23 Feb 2021, 14:22

Have you tried Toolnut? Their website does say "huge range of carving tools in stock".

https://www.toolnut.co.uk/
--------------
Andy
User avatar
AndyT
Old Oak
 
Posts: 2364
Joined: 23 Nov 2020, 19:45
Location: Bristol
Name: Andy

Re: Staircase upgrade

Postby RogerS » 23 Feb 2021, 15:23

AndyT wrote:Have you tried Toolnut? Their website does say "huge range of carving tools in stock".

https://www.toolnut.co.uk/


Thanks for that, Andy. Not heard of them before. Will have a look.

You've also jogged my memory to give G&S Timber a visit as they also seem to have a good range and more importantly I can look and touch if they have stuff in stock.
If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door.
User avatar
RogerS
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 13283
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Nearly finished. OK OK...call me Pinocchio.
Name:

Re: Staircase upgrade - conundrum

Postby RogerS » 24 Feb 2021, 18:02

I can't get my head around the problem at the bottom tread. It's to do with the level change required. At the quarter turn (photo below) it's not an issue as the handrail can sweep down and then gracefully curve into the line of the straight part for the bottom flight. It will feel right and more importantly, look right.
Image

But that won't work at the bottom, I don't think. The line of the stringer will continue all the way past the edge of the tread before the base rail would reach the level of the bottom tread.
Image

So I have to transition somehow from the slope on the stringer to the horizontal of the volute. It's a big jump.
Image

Even allowing for one more spindle, it's still a large jump.

Image

The only thing I can think of is to 'spindle down' the stringer as far as aesthetically it makes sense and then add extensions to the spindle bottoms on that support the volute so that they are level with the last spindle on the stringer.

Any other suggestions very gratefully received.

TIA
If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door.
User avatar
RogerS
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 13283
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Nearly finished. OK OK...call me Pinocchio.
Name:

Re: Staircase upgrade - conundrum

Postby Mike G » 24 Feb 2021, 18:48

Commercial spindles are always supplied over length, Roger. Have you measured yours? It may well be that you have to cut quite a bit off the ones which sit on the string, leaving you enough length of those sitting on the bottom step.
User avatar
Mike G
Sequoia
 
Posts: 9833
Joined: 30 Jul 2014, 22:36
Location: Suffolk
Name:

Re: Staircase upgrade - conundrum

Postby Trevanion » 24 Feb 2021, 19:37

You need to keep your volute spindles as long as possible to suit, perhaps even having longer ones made if they're still too short. As Mike said, you're typically cutting about 4" off the length of each spindle anyway on the stringer to get your 900mm height measurement at the top of the handrail.

Example image stolen off google:

Image
Image
User avatar
Trevanion
Old Oak
 
Posts: 2162
Joined: 27 Apr 2019, 19:04
Location: Pembrokeshire
Name:

Re: Staircase upgrade - conundrum

Postby RogerS » 24 Feb 2021, 19:44

Thanks chaps! Problem solved. I thought the spindles were a bit long at 900mm !
If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door.
User avatar
RogerS
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 13283
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Nearly finished. OK OK...call me Pinocchio.
Name:

Re: Staircase upgrade - conundrum

Postby HOJ » 24 Feb 2021, 19:49

Another example, not stolen off the internet!

Volute.jpg
(85.52 KiB)
HOJ
Sapling
 
Posts: 262
Joined: 26 Nov 2020, 09:59
Location: South Norfolk
Name: Paul

Re: Staircase upgrade - conundrum

Postby Trevanion » 24 Feb 2021, 20:00

HOJ wrote:Another example, not stolen off the internet!


It's more straightforward when the staircase is a cut-string staircase like yours, rather than an enclosed one with trenched strings that makes for a little more of a drop on the first tread with the gap of the now missing newel, as well as having never being designed for this kind of setup in the first place :lol:
Image
User avatar
Trevanion
Old Oak
 
Posts: 2162
Joined: 27 Apr 2019, 19:04
Location: Pembrokeshire
Name:

Re: Staircase upgrade - conundrum

Postby Andyp » 24 Feb 2021, 20:38

HOJ wrote:Another example, not stolen off the internet!

Volute.jpg


I am in awe of this stuff. Way beyond me.
Can I ask though why one of those spindles is so different to the rest?
I do not think therefore I do not am.

cheers
Andy
User avatar
Andyp
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 11712
Joined: 22 Jul 2014, 07:05
Location: 14860 Normandy, France
Name: Andy

Re: Staircase upgrade - conundrum

Postby HOJ » 25 Feb 2021, 08:40

Trevanion wrote:It's more straightforward when the staircase is a cut-string staircase like yours,
Agreed, just wanted to show off :eusa-whistle:

Andyp wrote: Can I ask though why one of those spindles is so different to the rest?
The odd one is a newel post which in this case gives the handrail more structure especially as there is a tendency to use it as leverage to take the first steps.
HOJ
Sapling
 
Posts: 262
Joined: 26 Nov 2020, 09:59
Location: South Norfolk
Name: Paul

Re: Staircase upgrade - conundrum

Postby Andyp » 25 Feb 2021, 10:28

Does that mean it is fixed differently to the rest?
I do not think therefore I do not am.

cheers
Andy
User avatar
Andyp
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 11712
Joined: 22 Jul 2014, 07:05
Location: 14860 Normandy, France
Name: Andy

PreviousNext

Return to Projects & WIP

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests