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My minibus/camper/works van project.

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My minibus/camper/works van project.

Postby Pinch » 02 Nov 2014, 15:37

I bought this 11 year old minibus 15 months ago and I paid £4,300 for it. The asking price was £4,500. These buses hold their value really well and I could probably get my money back if I sold it. But, I'm not selling it - she's a project. In the last year or so, the bus has proved to be completely reliable, good running costs and she recently flew through her first MOT in my ownership with just two advisories; (1) the n/s inner rear tyre is approaching the legal limit and (2) I had too many bits hanging from the rear view mirror.

The original plan was to remove all the rear seats and convert it into a camper (with no cupboards) and also use it to deliver whatever I make in the shop. Within the first week of buying the bus, I removed all the rear seats (excluding the bench seat directly behind the cab) and sold them on eBay for £300. I also made a partition behind the rear bench seat and loosely fitted some carpet with underlay. And that was it - I've done nothing to it since.

A year on and I need a project to focus on which is for me, so I've decided to make a start - sticking to the original plan. The work is going to include wood panelling to the rear walls below the glass, window linings (possibly), a gate to separate the crew cab from the van and work to the cabin as well.

The cabin:

I'm going to remove the double passenger seat and replace this with a single seat which I've hopefully sourced on eBay - will get confirmation tomorrow. If this goes well, I shall cover the cabin seats with some very nice heavy duty leatherette covers which I've also sourced on eBay. These are quite expensive but they look the dog's danglies. While the seats are out, I shall clean and re polish the floor. In between the front seats, I'm going to make a caddy box which will also be integral to a low level partition between the cabin and crew cabin behind. I shall also be making a bulkhead (shelf) above, which will house a couple of down lights and a neat little locking compartment. This will also act as a shelf accessed from the crew cabin - handy for blankets etc.

Here are a couple of pictures of the bus I took a few months ago. The bus is sign written now.
Image

Image

Report back soon.

Cheers,
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Re: My minibus/camper/works van project.

Postby Andyp » 02 Nov 2014, 18:56

Blimey Paul, for a camper van that is enormous. There is room for an un-suite in there. :D
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Re: My minibus/camper/works van project.

Postby Wizard9999 » 02 Nov 2014, 23:16

Looking forward to this project, but different to the norm.

Andyp wrote:Blimey Paul, for a camper van that is enormous. There is room for an un-suite in there. :D


:text-+1: what model of transit minibus is it, a long wheel base version?

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Re: My minibus/camper/works van project.

Postby Pinch » 05 Nov 2014, 08:07

Andyp wrote:Blimey Paul, for a camper van that is enormous. There is room for an un-suite in there. :D


Aye... she's a biggen. :D But, I would have liked bigger. I was considering the Mercedes 709D before the Transit, but the Mercs have much higher running costs.

This old bus is great for delivering most of what I make, the crew cab is very handy and Mrs P, the hounds and me can comfortably sit in the back with a brew in the countryside taking in the view - lovely. 8-)
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Re: My minibus/camper/works van project.

Postby Pinch » 05 Nov 2014, 08:11

Wizard9999 wrote:Looking forward to this project, but different to the norm.

Andyp wrote:Blimey Paul, for a camper van that is enormous. There is room for an un-suite in there. :D


:text-+1: what model of transit minibus is it, a long wheel base version?

Terry


Cheers Terry, I did similar to my previous minibus and the outcome was very good.

Yes, it's the long wheel base, twin wheeler T350 Transit - 2.4d turbo. There aren't many around and they hold their value. I had to travel up to Yorkshire to buy this one.
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Re: My minibus/camper/works van project.

Postby Pinch » 05 Nov 2014, 21:03

I thought I'd post some current pictures of the inside.

Here, I'm at the back of the bus looking towards the front (bit obvious I suppose) and you can see the partition I fitted last year. This was a temporary fix, but I might leave it in and clad over it with something more suitable. The gap is where I shall make some sort of gate separating the van from the crew cabin and as mentioned earlier, I shall panel the walls below the glass with possible linings.
Image

Now approaching the crew cabin...
Image

I'm not sure what I'm going to do with these seats yet. A possible shaggy throw over.
Image

Image

I now have my eye on a pair of gorgeous black leather Range Rover seats to replace all these front seats. Not sure how they will fit, but certainly doable. Above will be the shelf/baulkhead storage and between the new seats will be a tasteful caddy box with a low level partition running the width of the cabin. There's a channel in the floor which is perfect for an 18/19mm board of some type.
Image

Looking back over the front seats. Hmmm... not a good colour match, but this was a temporary fix - I have a plan.
Image

And the cab. I'm going to make a neat unit over the dash to replace the plastic thingy there at the moment. The sat nav will then be integral.
Image

Report back soon.

Cheers,
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Re: My minibus/camper/works van project.

Postby Pinch » 09 Nov 2014, 21:11

:D :D I've just bought a pair of gorgeous black leather Range Rover P38 seats off eBay.

I never bid until the end of an auction (5-4 seconds to go) and as usual, I was a 'sniper bidder' again and got the pair for £155.00 including delivery - fab result.

I will now look into making a sub frame for the seat's bases to fit to in order to achieve the correct heights, hole positions etc. I'm open to any advice you guys might have. I suppose it would be illegal to make them out of wood? :o So I'm thinking a steel box section welded where needed. I would then clad these with ply and a black carpet covering. The seats are electric too, so will be looking for advice on this bit as well please 8-)

Very exciting indeed :D
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Re: My minibus/camper/works van project.

Postby 9fingers » 10 Nov 2014, 23:42

It might be worth checking with your insurers what their view would be of non standard seats being fitted.
The integrity of seats is a safety issue and there are huge forces on seats in the event of a crash.
Mounting and operation of pretensioners needs to be considered, maybe airbags too.

It was many years ago but when I put extra seating in the back of a Merc 709D, I had to get the design approved by some agency or other - sorry I can't recall which.

Insurance was not an issue as I then worked for a huge company who carried their own insurance risk for all their vehicles.

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Re: My minibus/camper/works van project.

Postby Pinch » 12 Nov 2014, 20:36

9fingers wrote:It might be worth checking with your insurers what their view would be of non standard seats being fitted.
The integrity of seats is a safety issue and there are huge forces on seats in the event of a crash.
Mounting and operation of pretensioners needs to be considered, maybe airbags too.

It was many years ago but when I put extra seating in the back of a Merc 709D, I had to get the design approved by some agency or other - sorry I can't recall which.

Insurance was not an issue as I then worked for a huge company who carried their own insurance risk for all their vehicles.

Bob


Cheers Bob - yep, I'm on the case. I shall get the work approved before I clad over everything. A Merc 709D - this is what I was going to buy before the Transit. Fabulous vehicle. 8-)
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Re: My minibus/camper/works van project.

Postby Pinch » 12 Nov 2014, 20:47

A quick update:

My new (to me) seats arrived today and I'm very pleased with them. For 16 years old, they're pretty mint condition. A pal on the farm has also given me an old Transit front seat base which I've already adapted. I say adapted... I mean I've removed the parts I don't need for the conversion. I've now worked out a material list and will hopefully start removing/installing over the coming weekend.

Here are the seats. Fully electric, no holes or rips and very little wear.
Image

The base my mate kindly gave to me.
Image

A quick sketch illustrating how it's all going together. I can't really see any other way, but if anyone does, please share.
Image

I also received the wiring loom for the seats and apart from the obvious connections for both seats, I don't where to put the two end connection - help please.

Image

Any idea where these two go?
Image

Cheers for now,
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Re: My minibus/camper/works van project.

Postby Rod » 12 Nov 2014, 21:03

Plug into a Rover wiring loom?
Sorry.

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Re: My minibus/camper/works van project.

Postby 9fingers » 12 Nov 2014, 21:16

After having had a lot of trouble with my ford SRS (safety restraint system) I would say make sure the pre-tensioners from the range rover are compatible with your Ford. There should be two wires for each seat and the SRS computer continually monitors the health of the pre-tensioners. If your donor range rover has been crashed, then the pre-tensioners could have been triggered which means they are a write off.
If you connect pre-tensioners to a good SRS, this will be recorded and the warning lamp will stay on even if the pre-tensioners are replaced. I found information very hard to get about my Ford (10 year old Cmax) but everything points to needing the SRS to be replaced once it thinks there has been a crash.
My Ford pre-tensioners measure about 2 ohms when in an untriggered state. The SRS will be looking for this resistance and checking that it is neither short or open circuit. The suggestion I found was that the SRS will tolerate a few instances of open circuit before locking up in a fault condition - which is what I had.
Unfortunately there is more folk lore than facts available online.

I would advise getting expert help to avoid very expensive mistakes.

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Re: My minibus/camper/works van project.

Postby RogerS » 12 Nov 2014, 22:27

I'm not 100% sure about that, Bob. On my Discovery I am getting the SRS light coming on intermittently and which I am pretty sure is only down to an intermittent o/c in one of the pre-tensioners. I've been in no accident. Which implies no memory as you are suggesting.
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Re: My minibus/camper/works van project.

Postby 9fingers » 12 Nov 2014, 22:39

RogerS wrote:I'm not 100% sure about that, Bob. On my Discovery I am getting the SRS light coming on intermittently and which I am pretty sure is only down to an intermittent o/c in one of the pre-tensioners. I've been in no accident. Which implies no memory as you are suggesting.


The rumour was that the Ford SRS would tolerate about a 100 such intermittencies and then lock up as "full" furthermore the fraud dealers could not reset this count and a new SRS would be needed.
My SRS has locked up and I have had to insert some devious circuitry between the SRS and the dash computer to "deal" with the warning lamp otherwise it is an MOT failure.

Talking to my MOT tester, he can see a lot more future vehicles going to the scrapper for problems like this where the availability of new modules will dry up or be too expensive.
Fraud for example require a large number of parts to be programmed onto the car and only fraud dealers can do this. I'm sure it is the same with other brands too.

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Re: My minibus/camper/works van project.

Postby RogerS » 12 Nov 2014, 22:51

Thanks for that heads up, Bob. I did wonder about the MOT. Wonder if there is a separate fuse to the warning light? ;)

Oh balls....just did a quick look at the workshop manual and mine also has a memory. Must find out where the feed is to the SRS light.
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Re: My minibus/camper/works van project.

Postby 9fingers » 12 Nov 2014, 23:14

RogerS wrote:Thanks for that heads up, Bob. I did wonder about the MOT. Wonder if there is a separate fuse to the warning light? ;)

Oh balls....just did a quick look at the workshop manual and mine also has a memory. Must find out where the feed is to the SRS light.


I'm afraid such simple attempts to bodge it will fail. My dashboard computer actually tests for the presence of the warning leds and sounds a continuous buzzer if the leds is open circuit. I think the only thing that is not tested is the light is actually emitted!! These things are just far too clever these days.

The mot test requires that the lamp must light during the lamp test sequence and then not come on at all during the rest of the test. I note that my tester runs the engine through out the test and is in and out of the cab and so will see any warnings that come on.

I would fix the intermittentcy in the pre-tensioner wiring PDQ. This was the problem with mine. The pre-tensioner warning kept coming on even from new. It went back under warranty several times until fraud refused to look at it again. The MOT test did not check lamps back then so I gave in and did not pursue it.

AFAIK when the MOT test changed it was the first time that new requirements were applied retrospectively to older cars. But I got no sympathy with Fraud who just wanted loads-a-money to replace the SRS.
Basically these units are high priced as normally their replacement is usually part of a big insurance claim and insurers pay up or write off the vehicle.

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Re: My minibus/camper/works van project.

Postby Pinch » 13 Nov 2014, 08:13

Rod wrote:Plug into a Rover wiring loom?
Sorry.

Rod


Very good Sir - very good. :D
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Re: My minibus/camper/works van project.

Postby Pinch » 13 Nov 2014, 08:17

Bob and Roger, my head hurts now :?

I think I'll have to get a vehicle sparky on board.

My old bus doesn't have a computer, so am I right in saying the green connector will be for the computer and the small black one will be the feed in. The other is obviously the earth - isn't it? :|
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Re: My minibus/camper/works van project.

Postby 9fingers » 13 Nov 2014, 09:50

Are you sure there is no computer? even my 20year old car has several minor microprocessor modules.

Anyway getting expert advice seems a good idea. Connectors will depend on what features the seats have and where the controls were/are. Likely to be a lot more complex than you seem to realise especially if the donor car had things like driver setting memory etc.
You possibly have adjustments for fore and aft, seat height, lumbar support, heating maybe and detectors for seat occupancy. You van might not need all these and you might not need them either but you will need to sort the wood from the trees :lol:

A good start would be the wiring diagram for the donor vehicle which should give pin assignments for the connectors.

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Re: My minibus/camper/works van project.

Postby Wizard9999 » 13 Nov 2014, 10:29

9fingers wrote:You possibly have adjustments for fore and aft, seat height, lumbar support, heating maybe and detectors for seat occupancy.


I'm not well up on model numbers, etc. but if the seats came from a Range Rover of the same model as my SWMBO's the driver's one will have two seat memories which are linked to the two different keys that went with the car (my key puts seat in position I need, SWMBO's key would move it to her preferred position). The seat also has two different adjustments for the back, basically top half and bottom half of seat back adjust independently, the head rest is another separate electric adjustment, and front and back of seat can be raised / lowered independently as well. If I recall rightly, though I have never used it, I think in addition to lumbar support it also has a massage function.

I have no idea what happens if you don't connect up all of the funtions as electrics are not my thing. But, with the complexity of the functionality of these seats I can see it being a significant challenge if you want to retain all functionality.

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Re: My minibus/camper/works van project.

Postby Pinch » 14 Nov 2014, 09:18

9fingers wrote:Are you sure there is no computer? even my 20year old car has several minor microprocessor modules.

Anyway getting expert advice seems a good idea. Connectors will depend on what features the seats have and where the controls were/are. Likely to be a lot more complex than you seem to realise especially if the donor car had things like driver setting memory etc.
You possibly have adjustments for fore and aft, seat height, lumbar support, heating maybe and detectors for seat occupancy. You van might not need all these and you might not need them either but you will need to sort the wood from the trees :lol:

A good start would be the wiring diagram for the donor vehicle which should give pin assignments for the connectors.

Bob


I don't know what a 'minor microprocessor module' is but maybe the bus does have one or two.

Thinking about it, since owning the bus and initially adjusting the driver's seat to suit me, I've never adjusted it again. When I get the new seat installed, if needed, can I (for now) attach the earth cable and then independently contact a live feed to each connector just so I can move the seat to wherever it needs to be? It might be that when I get the seat installed, the position suits as it is. I know this isn't ideal long term, but it would certainly suffice until I get the wiring properly connected.

The new seats have all the up/down etc adjustments and they're heated, plus the memory as well. I owned a few Range Rovers years ago and these seats are clearly from the Vogue - leather with all the electrical adjustments.

Hmmm, wood from the trees - give me wood any day 8-)
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Re: My minibus/camper/works van project.

Postby Pinch » 14 Nov 2014, 09:24

Wizard9999 wrote:
9fingers wrote:You possibly have adjustments for fore and aft, seat height, lumbar support, heating maybe and detectors for seat occupancy.


I'm not well up on model numbers, etc. but if the seats came from a Range Rover of the same model as my SWMBO's the driver's one will have two seat memories which are linked to the two different keys that went with the car (my key puts seat in position I need, SWMBO's key would move it to her preferred position). The seat also has two different adjustments for the back, basically top half and bottom half of seat back adjust independently, the head rest is another separate electric adjustment, and front and back of seat can be raised / lowered independently as well. If I recall rightly, though I have never used it, I think in addition to lumbar support it also has a massage function.

I have no idea what happens if you don't connect up all of the funtions as electrics are not my thing. But, with the complexity of the functionality of these seats I can see it being a significant challenge if you want to retain all functionality.

Terry.


Electrics aren't my thing either :|

These seats are from a P38 1998 model. They have two memory buttons and the other adjusting buttons, although I'm not sure about the headrests or indeed, the massage function - that would be very lovely :D Your wife's Range Rover sounds like a later model.
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Re: My minibus/camper/works van project.

Postby Pinch » 15 Nov 2014, 19:51

Cor blimey - the driver's seat took a bit of thinking :| Mind you, I did have a couple of beers last night :o

Right then... the driver's seat is securely fitted and it's very comfortable. I almost nodded off driving home :shock:

Although I will be removing the seat again when the electrics are up and running.

Here's the seat base - old seat removed.
Image

I've fixed these two box sections using the existing bolts and holes.
Image

I then placed the other two box sections in their correct places. It was this which took a bit of working out. I noted some dimensions of the old seat in relation to the steering wheel, floor etc before I removed it, and worked to get the new seat pretty much in a similar position, only slightly higher.
Image

I bolted this together on the bench and then bolted it back onto the base.
Image

Image

Image

And then with a bit of fettling, I bolted the seat in place, with pleasing results.
Image

Image

Image

There are still bits to cut off and although I've raised the back using heavy duty washers, this might be temporary as the seat can't be electrically operated yet, so I don't know what movements I have at the moment. But the seat's position as it is fitted is almost perfect for me.

All good stuff.

The woody work is coming of course; phase 1 will cover the seat bases.

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Re: My minibus/camper/works van project.

Postby Andyp » 15 Nov 2014, 20:14

Comfy, Don't know how I have ever managed without a seat that does all that. :D
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Re: My minibus/camper/works van project.

Postby Pinch » 16 Nov 2014, 11:19

Andyp wrote:Comfy, Don't know how I have ever managed without a seat that does all that. :D


Cor, luxury indeed. How the other half lives eh. :D
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