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Fire Surround

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Fire Surround

Postby Pinch » 13 Feb 2015, 19:57

Hi All,

I haven't got this job yet. I'm still in the early stages of design and I haven't worked out any prices, although I have a few figures rolling around in my head. I've prepared two designs so far and all going well, I should have the third finished tomorrow. I shall then present them to the client.

The job is to design and make a new wooden fire surround for an old large farmhouse. It will be going into the sitting room which is only used occasionally. The earliest part of the house dates back to the 1600's and the client likes traditional/classical. No woods have been decided on yet either, but I think it's going to be either oak or mahogany. I shall try and push for walnut with maple, but to be frank, I really want this job, so if the client wants oak, I'm cool with that.

Anyway, the surround will be approximately 2.0M long, 1.3M high and the mantle depth will be roughly 300mm.

Here's scheme no. 1 in oak (possibly) with heavy scrolled pillars and maple spheres.

Image

Image

Image

Scheme no. 2 has tight barley twist columns and a line of spheres across the mantle.

Image

Image

Image

Scheme no. 3 is more elegant with a bow front and splayed pillars - possibly with projecting scrolls or even gargoyles!! :shock: I'll post this design up tomorrow.

Any input will be welcome or if anyone wants to have a stab at a price, please share.

Cheers,
8-)
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Re: Fire Surround

Postby Halo Jones » 13 Feb 2015, 22:26

Those are very dramatic/forceful/statement surrounds (and nice drawings).

I like both of them but it is very difficult to decide which is most appropriate without seeing the rest of the room.

H.
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Re: Fire Surround

Postby Pinch » 14 Feb 2015, 18:22

Thanks H. Yes, they are a bit - I like dramatic :D

The house is a bit mish-mash showing various eras including Georgian, Victorian and sort of modern. I guess pictures of the room would be useful, I'm working from the client's brief and my mind as I didn't take any photos of the room.
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Re: Fire Surround

Postby Pinch » 14 Feb 2015, 18:27

I've prepared another couple of designs and brought them together as orthographic projections. I shall present these to the clients with no costings at this stage, just to get an idea of their likes/dislikes.

In ortho projection, here are my four designs...

Image

Image

Image

Image

My favourites are 1 & 2.

Cheers,
8-)
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Re: Fire Surround

Postby Rod » 14 Feb 2015, 18:45

Yes I agree - plenty for your client to choose from

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Re: Fire Surround

Postby Mike G » 14 Feb 2015, 19:07

I really, really hope you get this job, and I really, really hope that they don't choose the barley twist design.

Great drawings! :eusa-clap:
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Re: Fire Surround

Postby TrimTheKing » 14 Feb 2015, 19:42

Number 2 all the way for me :)

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Re: Fire Surround

Postby Andyp » 14 Feb 2015, 20:07

Hi Paul, no 1 for me. Scrolls just look right on a fireplace. Barley twist is over the top but I would love to see you make it. No 3 looks too plain unless there is some nice grain and or contrasting woods on show. No 4 also too plain for me.

As for pricing all I can say is it will be way outta my league.

Good luck and I hope you get the job
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cheers
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Re: Fire Surround

Postby tracerman » 14 Feb 2015, 22:01

Crikey Paul . I agree with the others , I should avoid the barleytwists unless you are trying to emulate Elizabethan chimneypots ( that's wot springs to mind anyway .....) .

Perhaps if the customer really likes the barleytwists you could try to price yourself out of it . If you underprice it you will get the job . Whereas if you overprice it and they insist at least you are getting good money .

Sorry , just my twopence worth .

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Re: Fire Surround

Postby TrimTheKing » 14 Feb 2015, 22:06

tracerman wrote:I should avoid the barleytwists


It'll just be me then… :?

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Re: Fire Surround

Postby Pinch » 15 Feb 2015, 15:04

Rod wrote:Yes I agree - plenty for your client to choose from

Rod


Indeed. I hope they go for at least one of them :)
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Re: Fire Surround

Postby Pinch » 15 Feb 2015, 15:09

Mike G wrote:I really, really hope you get this job, and I really, really hope that they don't choose the barley twist design.

Great drawings! :eusa-clap:


Cheers Mike. Hmmm, so you don't like the barley twist jobbie. I must admit, the last barley twist I made was roughly 20 years ago which was a lump of 150mm dia cherry for a column pedestal of a cabinet.
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Re: Fire Surround

Postby Pinch » 15 Feb 2015, 15:10

TrimTheKing wrote:Number 2 all the way for me :)

Cheers
Mark


:text-bravo: :text-goodpost:
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Re: Fire Surround

Postby Pinch » 15 Feb 2015, 15:17

Andyp wrote:Hi Paul, no 1 for me. Scrolls just look right on a fireplace. Barley twist is over the top but I would love to see you make it. No 3 looks too plain unless there is some nice grain and or contrasting woods on show. No 4 also too plain for me.

As for pricing all I can say is it will be way outta my league.

Good luck and I hope you get the job


Hi Andy and cheers matey. I've received quite a bit of feedback and No. 1 seems to be the favourite. I agree, scrolls look so cool on fire surround. I think the price is going to pitch somewhere between 4-10k depending on which one they go for - if they go for one at all of course :|
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Re: Fire Surround

Postby Pinch » 15 Feb 2015, 15:32

tracerman wrote:Crikey Paul . I agree with the others , I should avoid the barleytwists unless you are trying to emulate Elizabethan chimneypots ( that's wot springs to mind anyway .....) .

Perhaps if the customer really likes the barleytwists you could try to price yourself out of it . If you underprice it you will get the job . Whereas if you overprice it and they insist at least you are getting good money .

Sorry , just my twopence worth .

Steve


Cheers Steve. Ah, yes, the other era I was thinking of was Elizabethan (good chap!), although slightly too early for this house, but there are hints of Elizabethan internally and externally. I like Elizabethan chimney pots. 8-)

My biggest downfall is pricing work and these surrounds will be a bit tricky (except No. 3 and possibly 4) to price. Material costing of course is straight forward, it's the labour I always struggle with and I'm never greedy. I normally allow 'x' amount of hours at my hourly rate plus a little margin and more than not, I exceed the hours I've allowed. But, my hourly rate covers my overheads quite comfortably and I'm pretty happy to earn a living. Also, an 8 hour day for me can sometimes be spread over 2 days - it's just the way I work. I'm a bit scatty and I easily drift. :D
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Re: Fire Surround

Postby Pinch » 15 Feb 2015, 15:40

TrimTheKing wrote:
tracerman wrote:I should avoid the barleytwists


It'll just be me then… :?

Mark


Me too 8-)

Deep down, I hope they go for No. 2. I think it will look the most striking.
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Re: Fire Surround

Postby tracerman » 15 Feb 2015, 22:01

Paul - from your reply I can tell that you are already aware of your shortcomings . This is a good thing . I was self employed for 12 years and I wish I could go back and start again knowing what I know now . I once read an " old Russian proverb " there are two fools in every market , one asks too little , the other asks too much . Striking the balance is the tricky bit . I also drifted , meandered and procrastinated . Too many cups of tea , too much pondering . When pricing up the materials make sure you include the likely offcuts as well , not just what goes into the finished job , so you know that pile of offcuts has been paid for by the customers . plus the VAT of course , and a percentage on top to cover the cost of sitting down and working it all out , and time if you are collecting the materials , and when helpful souls chip in with advice , try to remember what they mean as well as wot they say . Know the very first thing you are going to do when you arrive in the morning ( apart from putting the kettle on of course ...) . " what you don't do in the morning , you're not going to do ". As we all know ( or will know ) the pricing of each job is crucial and I hope you get a good result on this one .

Watching with interest .

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Re: Fire Surround

Postby Pinch » 16 Feb 2015, 20:59

tracerman wrote:Paul - from your reply I can tell that you are already aware of your shortcomings . This is a good thing . I was self employed for 12 years and I wish I could go back and start again knowing what I know now . I once read an " old Russian proverb " there are two fools in every market , one asks too little , the other asks too much . Striking the balance is the tricky bit . I also drifted , meandered and procrastinated . Too many cups of tea , too much pondering . When pricing up the materials make sure you include the likely offcuts as well , not just what goes into the finished job , so you know that pile of offcuts has been paid for by the customers . plus the VAT of course , and a percentage on top to cover the cost of sitting down and working it all out , and time if you are collecting the materials , and when helpful souls chip in with advice , try to remember what they mean as well as wot they say . Know the very first thing you are going to do when you arrive in the morning ( apart from putting the kettle on of course ...) . " what you don't do in the morning , you're not going to do ". As we all know ( or will know ) the pricing of each job is crucial and I hope you get a good result on this one .

Watching with interest .

Steve


:obscene-drinkingcheers: Steve, you're absolutely right.

I've been attending leads and pricing work for almost 30 years, but it's only been in the last few years I've learned my focussing ability and consistency has dropped quite a few levels. I almost burnt myself out several years ago and this resulted in being medically signed off for over a year - I've never been quite the same since. But, I'm totally okay with this now and have accepted my aptitude is far from what it once was. This includes not able to focus for long periods of time and then of course, drifting in my head. I'm still very methodical (possibly too much so - bordering OCD) and organised in the workshop, but also, my vision isn't what it used to be either - comes to us all I guess, which frustrates me at times. Like you write "awareness of our shortcomings" is being true to ourselves and with self awareness comes acceptance and a kind of peace. I consider myself fortunate in lots of ways and although I experience some real * days, I would never want to give up my work and work for someone else. I think I have the best of both worlds; I'm always ticking over with work (I don't advertise) and my clients are generally very patient with me. My driving force has never been money, it's always been creativity. 8-)
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Re: Fire Surround

Postby Pinch » 14 Mar 2015, 12:16

Just thought I'd update the progress of this lead/job. I met up with the client last week and his favourite is surround no. 1, but he doesn't want to do anything until later in the year. A bit annoying but I don't think the drawing work has been a waste of time.
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Re: Fire Surround

Postby Rod » 14 Mar 2015, 19:25

That's a bit annoying.

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Re: Fire Surround

Postby Andyp » 14 Mar 2015, 20:27

Nice to do that I/he made the right choice :D
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