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Was Sam Maloof finish - now added Mike's Magic Mix

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Was Sam Maloof finish - now added Mike's Magic Mix

Postby Phil » 06 May 2017, 07:25

I have copied this from Bob's post.

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2613


That mixture has been long known as an "oil/varnish" mixture. It was probably first publicized in the 1960's when Watco came out with their then "magic" finish. Here is something I found that sort of summarizes the whole "Maloof Finish" issue.

The Sam Maloof Finish Recipe

The Sam Maloof finish consists of two finishes: A varnish/oil mixure followed by an oil/varnish/beeswax mixture. The first mixture is applied until you are satisfied with the build-up. Then you apply the second finish, which does require some elbow grease! You can purchase the finish pre-mixed from Rockler, or you can mix your own. I provide two Mixture 1 recipes. Mixture 1 Version 1 is the traditional Sam Maloof finish. It takes a while to dry--leave at least 24 hours between coats. Mixture 1 Version 2 is an oft-used finish that provides a little better penetration, is easier to apply, and dries faster.

Mixture 1 Recipe (Version 1)
Mix equal parts of the following:
- Boiled Linseed Oil
- Raw Tung oil (not Waterlox, Dalys, or other tung oils containing resin additives)
- Semi-Gloss urethane varnish

Mixture 1 Recipe (Version 2)
Mix equal parts of the following:
- Thinner. Use paint thinner, mineral spirits, or naphtha. Feel free to use a bit less thinner and more varnish or oil. The thinner is present to help the finish penetrate the pores of the wood, rather than lay on the surface.
- Varnish. Virtually any quality varnish will do. I prefer a standard oil varnish rather than a fast drying varnish.
- Oil. Use either boiled linseed oil or raw tung oil. Again, do not use Waterlox, Daly's, or other tung oils that have added resins.

Mixture 2 Recipe
Mix 2 handfuls of shredded beeswax to equal parts of boiled linseed oil and raw tung oil. Heat the mixture in a double-boiler on an electric hotplate just until the wax melts. Due to the volatile nature of the ingredients, brew your mixture outdoors. When cooled, the mixture should have the consistency of heavy cream.

General Application
Apply three to four coats of Mixture 1. Let oil sit on surface for 5-10 minutes. Optionally, sand mixture into wood using 400-600 grit wet and dry sandpaper. Remove excess oil with a clean cloth/paper towel. Allow at least 24 hours drying time between each coat. Apply two to three coats of Mixture 2. Rub Mixture 2 into the surface vigorously.
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Re: Sam Maloof finish

Postby TrimTheKing » 08 May 2017, 10:53

Thanks Phil. I've made this a sticky as it seems like it could be a popular one going forwards.

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Re: Sam Maloof finish

Postby 9fingers » 08 May 2017, 14:06

TrimTheKing wrote:Thanks Phil. I've made this a sticky as it seems like it could be a popular one going forwards.

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Maybe you need to dilute it a bit more Mark? :lol: :lol:

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Re: Sam Maloof finish

Postby TrimTheKing » 08 May 2017, 14:06

Badoom tschhhhh!

:text-bravo:

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Re: Sam Maloof finish

Postby PAC1 » 01 Jan 2021, 16:44

You can make a similar thing with Boiled Linseed Oil and Yacht Varnish plus turpentine. I used to use this a lot for carvings but really well thinned down. I got the recipe from my college lecturer who got it from some old bloke he knew so that puts it 70+ years old.
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Re: Sam Maloof finish

Postby Mike G » 01 Jan 2021, 19:46

Yeah, the part one is also known as wiping varnish, and many of us here have used it for years. It's in all the old books, too, so it's just a bit annoying that Maloof's name has somehow become attached to something which is very traditional. His 2nd part gives me the heebie jeebies. All that build-up on the surface, and all pretty vulnerable to spillages and heat.
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Mike's Magical Mix

Postby RogerS » 11 Feb 2022, 12:04

I've searched the forum but failed to get the definitive recipe?

Osmo what ?

Liberon Finishing Oil aka varnish (referred as such in one thread)

White spirit - that one's easy

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Re: Mike's Magical Mix

Postby Dr.Al » 11 Feb 2022, 12:21

RogerS wrote:I've searched the forum but failed to get the definitive recipe?

Osmo what ?

Liberon Finishing Oil aka varnish (referred as such in one thread)

White spirit - that one's easy

TIA


I'm sure Mike will be along shortly with a more definitive answer, but what I remember the instructions saying was to use equal parts of:

  • White spirit
  • Varnish (any spirit based one will do - choose one that is one step glossier than the finish you're after, so gloss for satin or satin for matt)
  • Oil of your choice

I use white spirit, Ronseal Ultra Tough Satincoat Polyurethane Clear and Pure Tung Oil, all mixed up in an old 2 litre white spirit bottle.
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Re: Mike's Magical Mix

Postby Dr.Al » 11 Feb 2022, 12:23

I found the original post where Mike told me about it:

I think the simplest finish to get right is a wiping varnish. Mix 1/3rd spirit-based varnish, 1/3rd white spirit, one third oil (Tung Oil or Finishing Oil or Danish Oil or Linseed Oil.....in that order of preference). Slap it on with a brush, then wipe it off after 10 minutes max (it mustn't go tacky). Leave for 24 hours, then do the merest wipe-over with a very fine worn old piece of sandpaper, barely touching the surface. Repeat the brushing on/ wiping off. Do this once a day every day for 4 or 5 days or more, and you can build up a really nice finish.

The beauty of it is that you can do this without the spectacular levels of cleanliness required for other finishes, and it produces a robust stain-resistant, water resistant finish which is ideal for a table. Oil and wax finishes are not robust enough for a table as they can be ruined by a cup of tea or a glass of wine.
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Re: Mike's Magical Mix

Postby Woodbloke » 11 Feb 2022, 13:17

RogerS wrote:I've searched the forum but failed to get the definitive recipe?

Osmo what ?

Liberon Finishing Oil aka varnish (referred as such in one thread)

White spirit - that one's easy

TIA

One part Osmo PolyX, one part Liberon Finishing oil, one part white spirit. Decant into a suitable container, stir thoroughly and slosh it on all over with a clean white cloth (not coloured or the dye may run), de-nibble 'twixt coats (three is usually enough) and then I finish with a slathering of decent quality wax - Rob
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Re: Mike's Magical Mix

Postby RogerS » 11 Feb 2022, 14:14

Thanks chaps although slightly bemused as Rob mentions Osmo Polyx but Dr Al mentions Ronseal Polyurethane.

And spirit-based varnish....but Osmo POlyx is an oil, surely ?

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Re: Mike's Magical Mix

Postby Woodbloke » 11 Feb 2022, 14:36

RogerS wrote:Thanks chaps although slightly bemused as Rob mentions Osmo Polyx but Dr Al mentions Ronseal Polyurethane.

And spirit-based varnish....but Osmo POlyx is an oil, surely ?

:eusa-think:

Whatever gloop you've got on yer shelf Rog, but not water based acrylic varnish. I use Osmo as I've got a new tin of the stuff and I haven't used poly for yonks; at least two decades and I don't intend to buy a new pot just for MMM :D

IMG_6492.jpeg
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The Osmo seems to work fine though; I've just put the first coat on some drawer fronts - Rob
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Re: Mike's Magical Mix

Postby Dr.Al » 11 Feb 2022, 15:06

RogerS wrote:Thanks chaps although slightly bemused as Rob mentions Osmo Polyx but Dr Al mentions Ronseal Polyurethane.

And spirit-based varnish....but Osmo POlyx is an oil, surely ?

:eusa-think:


Dunno about anything osmo: I just followed Mike's instructions. In a later post (same thread as I linked above) he said that any varnish is fine as long as it tells you to clean the brushes with white spirit, not water.

The Ronseal stuff was available in my local hardware store, so I went with that.

The side table and my dining-table-cum-home-office-desk both had 4 or 5 coats of Mike's Magic Mix & they've both had loads of things like coffee, tea, wine & various food-stuffs spilled on them (and wiped up fairly quickly) with no obvious ill effects so far.
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Re: Mike's Magical Mix

Postby Woodbloke » 11 Feb 2022, 15:36

Dr.Al wrote:
....he said that any varnish is fine as long as it tells you to clean the brushes with white spirit, not water.



Osmo brushes also need to be cleaned in white spirit - Rob
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Re: Mike's Magical Mix

Postby NickM » 11 Feb 2022, 15:45

If I recall correctly, I think Mike is using Osmo as the oil component (rather than the varnish). He bought a tin to see what the fuss is about, didn't like it much and so is using it up as an ingredient in his home-brew.
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Re: Mike's Magical Mix

Postby AndyT » 11 Feb 2022, 16:06

The bit that strikes me as odd in Mike's list is including Finishing Oil and Danish Oil alongside linseed and Tung.

Manufacturers' naming of their products is a confusing minefield, but as far as I know:

- linseed oil is a plain oil, so does belong in that category
- tung oil should be a plain oil but some manufacturers put that name on a mixture
- Danish Oil is already a mixture, of oil and varnish and a solvent
- the stuff that Rustins sell as 'Finishing oil' is just Danish oil by another name.

I'm not saying that any of these mixtures won't work - and I know that the various brands of Danish oil have different proportions of ingredients.

I sometimes think it would be useful to have a UK equivalent to Bob Flexner's guides for US products but covering brands sold here. I'm not aware of one.
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Re: Mike's Magical Mix

Postby Lons » 11 Feb 2022, 16:19

Does it have to be white spirit or ok to use Turps substitute which is slightly oily?
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Re: Mike's Magical Mix

Postby Lurker » 11 Feb 2022, 16:19

Once we have a definite answer can it be made into a sticky?
Ditto a cleaning solution.

I keep thinking that I will remember the formulas and then when I need them start to dither.
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Re: Mike's Magical Mix

Postby Phil Pascoe » 11 Feb 2022, 16:56

Lons wrote:Does it have to be white spirit or ok to use Turps substitute which is slightly oily?


I don't use turps sub for anything. I read an article by R. Rustin decades ago in which he said to always use white spirit as it is made to BS 245 and there is no standard for turps sub. - it can be anything the manufacturer chooses, so can upset the finish you're diluting. I queried one supplier about their w.s. not having a BS number and was told that anything sold as w.s. legally has to comply with the standard. (Why they didn't mark it thus, who knows?)
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Re: Mike's Magical Mix

Postby Phil Pascoe » 11 Feb 2022, 17:00

AndyT wrote:- Danish Oil is already a mixture, of oil and varnish and a solvent
- the stuff that Rustins sell as 'Finishing oil' is just Danish oil by another name.

I asked a major manufacturer (I forget now which) the difference and was told that the only difference is the resins used - Danish is more water resistant. Interestingly, they said Danish was suitable for all hardwoods ....... except oak. i tried to get more info. but it wasn't forthcoming.
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Re: Mike's Magical Mix

Postby Dr.Al » 11 Feb 2022, 17:12

AndyT wrote:The bit that strikes me as odd in Mike's list is including Finishing Oil and Danish Oil alongside linseed and Tung.

Manufacturers' naming of their products is a confusing minefield, but as far as I know:

- linseed oil is a plain oil, so does belong in that category
- tung oil should be a plain oil but some manufacturers put that name on a mixture
- Danish Oil is already a mixture, of oil and varnish and a solvent
- the stuff that Rustins sell as 'Finishing oil' is just Danish oil by another name.

I'm not saying that any of these mixtures won't work - and I know that the various brands of Danish oil have different proportions of ingredients.

I sometimes think it would be useful to have a UK equivalent to Bob Flexner's guides for US products but covering brands sold here. I'm not aware of one.


The Tung Oil I use is called "Pure Tung Oil" and I made sure it had "Pure" in the name so it wasn't a mixture of things.

I don't really know anything about Finishing Oil, but I agree with you on Danish Oil. I've bought two different Danish oils. One came from the local hardware shop and was fairly low viscosity and went on in a similar manner to Mike's Magic Mix (slop it on any which way, leave it 10 minutes, wipe it off with whatever, don't worry about streaks etc) and I use that when I've run out of pre-mixed MMM and can't be bothered to mix some more up. It seems fine for "light duty" applications from what I can tell (I've used it on boxes, bookmarks and some home-made tools so far). The other Danish Oil I bought (which I ordered online and came in a much posher bottle :lol: ) is thick and gloopy and horrible to apply. I haven't decided yet whether to bin it or use it as an ingredient in MMM.
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Re: Mike's Magical Mix

Postby Lurker » 11 Feb 2022, 17:13

Phil Pascoe wrote:I queried one supplier about their w.s. not having a BS number and was told that anything sold as w.s. legally has to comply with the standard. (Why they didn't mark it thus, who knows?)


Probably they also sold it to monsewer Macrons compatriots who would instantly assume that it was quasi effective.
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Re: Mike's Magical Mix

Postby AndyT » 11 Feb 2022, 17:35

This is the sort of research-based blog post from Bob Flexner that I was thinking of, showing how muddled the marketplace is, in the States at least

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodw ... -refresher

It might be helpful.
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Re: Mike's Magical Mix

Postby Mike G » 11 Feb 2022, 18:53

AndyT wrote:The bit that strikes me as odd in Mike's list is including Finishing Oil and Danish Oil alongside linseed and Tung.

Manufacturers' naming of their products is a confusing minefield, but as far as I know:

- linseed oil is a plain oil, so does belong in that category
- tung oil should be a plain oil but some manufacturers put that name on a mixture
- Danish Oil is already a mixture, of oil and varnish and a solvent
- the stuff that Rustins sell as 'Finishing oil' is just Danish oil by another name.

I'm not saying that any of these mixtures won't work - and I know that the various brands of Danish oil have different proportions of ingredients.....


Essentially, the point that emerges from this correct set of observations is that the mix and associated technique works really well no matter that the ratios vary. Danish oils, and Finishing oil, as I understand it, are mainly oils but with some added varnish. So using them in a 1:1:1 mix with thinner and varnish might give a 0.8 :1.3 :0.9 mix of oil, varnish and thinner in the final MMM mix, to pick numbers out of thin air. It still works.

My guess at what is going on is that the initial coats will see the thinned oil being absorbed into the wood, and most of the stuff you wipe off will be thinned varnish. The wood will take up what oil it can in those inital coats, and when it can take no more, the subsequent layers will see more oil wiped off than varnish. When it comes to layers 5/ 6/ 7 etc, I don't think the oil is doing anything at all, and I have regularly just used varnish & thinner at this stage (50/50 ish mix) if I had run out of the original mix. I never make any attempt to mix the stuff accurately, other than some felt tip lines on an old jar. I honestly reckon this would work if you used 0.5: 2: 0.5, so long as the 2 was never varnish.
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Re: Mike's Magical Mix

Postby Mike G » 11 Feb 2022, 18:59

Lons wrote:Does it have to be white spirit or ok to use Turps substitute which is slightly oily?


So long as it thins the oil and varnish, it's fine. I think my general point here, as shown by Rob's variation on the mix, is that ratios and ingredients are not terribly important so long as they are all dissolved by the solvent. The key to success is the technique and the timing rather than the mixture......slap it on and wipe it off before it goes tacky, and critically, leave it somewhere warmish for 24 hours before doing the denibbing and the next coat.

As an aside, it's sometimes difficult on bigger pieces to start wiping before the first stuff you slathered on is tacky. No matter. Wet your cloth down in your solvent, and wipe away.
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