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Filling and finishing Oak

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Filling and finishing Oak

Postby legoman0 » 06 Feb 2019, 19:17

Hello again, just after some advice if you don't mind?

My dad has had 7 oak veneer doors fitted, 2 to solid oak frames the other 5 to existing painted softwood frames. Also had architraves and skirting boards fitted at his home.

The first 2 doors, frames, arch and skirting were fitted in the living room by joiner no 1 before Christmas. The frames were fixed with screws with the heads rebated below the wood surface but left like that. I thought they should be plugged with some oak from the off cuts?

The architraves and skirting were fixed with a nail gun and have 10's if not 100's of little indents where the nails are.

This part is my fault - As the doors have been up unfinished for a while there's greasy hand marks on them (probably from my youngest! :oops: )

The remaining 5 doors have been fitted by another joiner using the same technique again - leaving lots of little 'holes'

So my questions are,
What is the best filler to use on untreated oak to sort out the nail gun indents.
Is it possible to plug the screw holes in-situ?
What should I use to get rid of the greasy hand marks? Is it even possible?

And finally once all the above is recitified, can Osmo door oil be used on the veneered doors (Howdens Genoa if it matters) and will the filler cause any problems.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

(Mods - This is the 2nd time I've tried to post this so if another question along the same lines pops up please delete either)

Mark
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Re: Filling and finishing Oak

Postby TrimTheKing » 06 Feb 2019, 19:25

Hi Mark

To make sure you’re not a spammer the forum requires your first three posts to be approved by a Mod so as soon as you’ve made three they will pop up immediately then.
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Re: Filling and finishing Oak

Postby Andyp » 06 Feb 2019, 19:29

Hi Mark and welcome to the forum. The other post has been deleted.

How deep are the recessed screws? A tapered plug cutter, which will need a bench drill, will make tight fitting plugs which can then be sawn nearly flush and sanded for a neat finish.

The nails holes I guess should be filled with a suitable filler but I have no experience on that so I will let others chop in.
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Re: Filling and finishing Oak

Postby legoman0 » 06 Feb 2019, 19:33

Yeah thanks, I realised once I sent the 2nd message. It said on screen it would need approved, just didnt see it 1st time :)

I'd say screws are about 5mm from surface. They could be made deeper as its a rebated frame 32mm thick.

Plug cutter - https://www.toolstation.com/titanium-pl ... set/p72650 something like that?

Thanks
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Re: Filling and finishing Oak

Postby Mike G » 06 Feb 2019, 19:42

legoman0 wrote:.......Is it possible to plug the screw holes in-situ?.......


Very difficult, but not impossible. The first step will be to remove the screw, necessarily, because the second step is to drill a suitable sized hole to take a plug, and that won't be possible with the screw in position. The real difficulty is that with a hole already made by the screw head (or countersink), it is incredibly difficult to start a new larger hole absolutely perfectly, without the bit wandering around and making a mess.

If you can achieve a round hole, somehow, then plugging (after replacing the screw) and finishing are relatively straightforward.
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Re: Filling and finishing Oak

Postby Andyp » 06 Feb 2019, 19:43

legoman0 wrote:
I'd say screws are about 5mm from surface. They could be made deeper as its a rebated frame 32mm thick.

Plug cutter - https://www.toolstation.com/titanium-pl ... set/p72650 something like that?

Thanks


No. Tapered like this will give you a tight fit, but needs to be matched to the hole size.
https://www.axminster.co.uk/veritas-tap ... rs-ax22401

I a bit concerned if 5mm is deep enough for such a plug.
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Re: Filling and finishing Oak

Postby Mike G » 06 Feb 2019, 19:52

Andyp wrote:.......I a bit concerned if 5mm is deep enough for such a plug.


It isn't. Nothing like. The screws will have to come out (not all at once!!), and be re-drilled to a greater depth. I'd want 12 to 15mm before I started feeling comfortable with my plugs, and others might require even more depth.
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Re: Filling and finishing Oak

Postby legoman0 » 06 Feb 2019, 20:00

Thanks, there's an Axminster in North Shields 5mins down the road. I'll pop down and get one.

Any idea about filler? My concern is it standing out like a sore thumb
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Re: Filling and finishing Oak

Postby Mike G » 06 Feb 2019, 20:07

Get a 2 part wood filler with a medium or dark oak colour. Try it on some scrap, including sanding it down. If it isn't brown enough, you can tint the colour with artists oil paints.
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Re: Filling and finishing Oak

Postby legoman0 » 06 Feb 2019, 20:11

Cheers, will that be OK with the Osmo door oil? Its clear matt.
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Re: Filling and finishing Oak

Postby Mike G » 06 Feb 2019, 21:09

Yep.
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Re: Filling and finishing Oak

Postby RogerS » 06 Feb 2019, 22:44

My concern would be when removing the existing screws that the wood splits out as they come out. So you'll probably need to fill a little round the plug.

Are the dents too deep to sand out ? The other thing you could try is wet the dent well then with the tip of an iron warm up the dent. With a bit of luck the dent will pop back out.
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Re: Filling and finishing Oak

Postby Coley » 07 Feb 2019, 05:45

Teak exterior brummers was the best colour match I found for oak pin holes. I bought every tin they sold years ago and found that was the best color match after being oiled or stained.

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Re: Filling and finishing Oak

Postby Mike Jordan » 07 Feb 2019, 09:37

As suggested the only difficult part of plugging the screw holes is locating the drill used to counterbore the hole after removing the screw. I suggest that you drill through a piece of scrap material and then position this over the existing countersink hole to steady your drill. A short pattern Forster bit would be ideal for the job. A 10mm deep hole is about right for ease of working If you don't have a drill press or mortiser to make the plugs, just post the number you need and size. I make 12 mm plugs quite frequently and carry a small stock in various timbers.i also have 10mm & 15mm cutters.
I also suggest that "joiner" number three should be a proper one rather than another idiot!
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Re: Filling and finishing Oak

Postby RogerS » 07 Feb 2019, 10:54

Mike Jordan wrote:As suggested the only difficult part of plugging the screw holes is locating the drill used to counterbore the hole after removing the screw....
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Why not use one of these ? Self-centering.

step drill.png
(357.1 KiB)
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Re: Filling and finishing Oak

Postby Mike Jordan » 07 Feb 2019, 11:24

I thought those were intended for metal sheet cutting. I don't think they will compare to the sharp edged hole made by a Forster bit, the main drawback seems to be that it won't drill a parallel hole 10 mm deep but I must agree that it's self centring.
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Re: Filling and finishing Oak

Postby RogerS » 07 Feb 2019, 11:39

Mike Jordan wrote:I thought those were intended for metal sheet cutting. I don't think they will compare to the sharp edged hole made by a Forster bit, the main drawback seems to be that it won't drill a parallel hole 10 mm deep but I must agree that it's self centring.


No, they work extremely well in wood. In this case, I'd use it to initially drill the hole of the size I need centred in the wood. Then use a Forstner to finish off - an easy task as the pilot hole for it has been started and in the right place.
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Re: Filling and finishing Oak

Postby Mike G » 07 Feb 2019, 12:32

How deep is each step, Roger? If it is only one or 2mm then that will only lead to cock-ups. If it is 5 or 6, then it's got a chance. Remember this is going to be used whilst kneeling on the floor using a hand-held drill horizontally. Mike Jordan's suggestion is the way I'd be going, although holding the guide block in place won't be easy.
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Re: Filling and finishing Oak

Postby RogerS » 07 Feb 2019, 12:51

Mike G wrote:How deep is each step, Roger? If it is only one or 2mm then that will only lead to cock-ups. If it is 5 or 6, then it's got a chance. Remember this is going to be used whilst kneeling on the floor using a hand-held drill horizontally. Mike Jordan's suggestion is the way I'd be going, although holding the guide block in place won't be easy.


I think it will be much easier than trying to control a Forstner bit chuntering around trying to find a centre since the Forstner requires something for that central tang to bite into. Which is absent.
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Re: Filling and finishing Oak

Postby stu » 07 Feb 2019, 16:56

Yeah, best way to do this is with a guide block as mentioned above. Once the forstner has been started you don't need to worry about the lack of centre. If you are struggling to hold the block on the oiled oak, a bit of fine sandpaper glued to the back of the block (rough side facing the lining!) will help stop it from slipping around, and with a light touch you 'should' get perfect holes every time!
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