It is currently 20 Nov 2019, 11:36

How to lay a path... Help required

Hang up your Chisels and Plane blades and take a load off with a recently turned goblet of your favourite poison, in the lounge of our Gentlemen's (and ladies) Club.

How to lay a path... Help required

Postby TrimTheKing » 07 Nov 2019, 13:08

Good afternoon all

I've got a week off this week to get on with various DIY jobs around our money pit of a house and one of the jobs SWMBO wants doing (albeit not this week) is to finish the front of the workshop with the path.

I have stone, sand and cement left over from the workshop build, and all the lovely York stone slabs that we pulled up from beneath the old shed and decking. These stones vary in size, shape and MASSIVELY in thickness, ranging from 1.5" through to some at around 5" thick!

I was planning to start with suitably sized slabs in front of the doorway and work my way out from there, probably just placing the slabs so they make a nice looking path but that isn't necessarily straight edged along both edges, so long as it's straight around the workshop to form some flower beds (might even vary these edges for a bit of visual interest), then join up with the main patio and a little bit of stone at the end of the bridge over the pond.

Hope that makes sense, if not I've done a little hand sketch below to show what I mean but effectively I'm saving myself a bit of time by not having to make loads of cuts (and wasting material) while still having a path that looks good.

fullsizeoutput_f5c5.jpeg
(179.01 KiB)


Here's my question, I don't really want to have to dig out a massive area in one hit and was planning, as mentioned, on starting at the doors and working outwards, so how am I best to lay this?

I was thinking just pick some suitable sized slabs for the door steps, work out the thickness of each, dig down that depth+sand(or sand/cement mix)+stone then bed them in a couple at a time. Reason being I might not have enough to finish it in one hit, and don't fancy the idea of spending loads of time laying them out, if I can avoid it, or it's just a bad idea not to...

Does that sound okay"? If not, how would I be better doing it? How much sand? How much stone? How to bed them in (dry sand/cement mix? If so what ratio?, full cement mix over sand, over stone? If so how much of each?

I might be making this a bit harder than it should be but if anyone can point me in the right direction, or to a good online resource, that would be much appreciated.

IMG_0629.JPG
Path area
(760.07 KiB)


IMG_0628.JPG
Workshop doors.
(571.49 KiB)
Cheers
Mark
TrimTheKing
Site Admin
 
Posts: 4361
Joined: 16 Jun 2014, 13:27
Location: Grappenhall, Cheshire
Name: Mark

Re: How to lay a path... Help required

Postby Mike G » 07 Nov 2019, 13:21

Yep, crack on. That's fine. They don't actually need bedding on sand/ cement. If you aren't in horrible puddly clay then you could put down some ballast, or some Type 1 (or is it Type 2........I always get those wrong) , or sharp sand,over a Terram-type membrane, and bed them well into that. The downside of that is that pointing with sand will mean stuff grows between the flags. That's OK if it's stuff you want to grow there, not so good if it's nettles, dandelions and docks. Doing it in bits will be fine, too, but I would definitely set up some level-reference pegs along the route first so that you don't have to make any big adjustments in the last little section you put down.
User avatar
Mike G
Old Oak
 
Posts: 4276
Joined: 30 Jul 2014, 22:36
Location: Somewhat less of a hovel
Name:

Re: How to lay a path... Help required

Postby TrimTheKing » 07 Nov 2019, 13:48

Perfect, thanks Mike.

Levels was something I thought about but wasn't sure on how to deal. Pegs sounds like the way to go.

The ground is clay below about 12" of topsoil and we do get a lot of the wet stuff so I might just chuck a bit of cement in with the sand anyway s the sand doesn't get washed away over time, unless I really don't need to...?

I'll get to it, as soon as it stops properly raining! I don't mind a bit but this is biblical at the moment so for now I'll carry on with indoor jobs.
Cheers
Mark
TrimTheKing
Site Admin
 
Posts: 4361
Joined: 16 Jun 2014, 13:27
Location: Grappenhall, Cheshire
Name: Mark

Re: How to lay a path... Help required

Postby Doug » 07 Nov 2019, 14:41

Personally I like a layer of mot type 2 plated down over a weed membrane then the stone laid on a bed of mortar equal parts building sand & sharp sand which makes laying stone that’s not a uniformed thickness easier.

I’d always get the stone down covering the whole area to be paved as it gives a decent surface to work from & keeps the site clean, this is a recent one

5B9C4A65-EA22-473F-A61A-01C1EF760228.jpeg
(100.49 KiB)


50BCB8BD-94FD-473D-B867-A2BCF7874799.jpeg
(140.26 KiB)


They’re put down solid bed so no voids under the stone.
Doug
Nordic Pine
 
Posts: 971
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 22:22
Location: Location Location
Name:

Re: How to lay a path... Help required

Postby RogerS » 07 Nov 2019, 15:14

I agree, Doug. Trouble is that Marks stones are very variable in thickness. If it was me I'd take a look at the very thick stones and take a view as to whether or not they could be split with a bolster chisel. It will depend on the type of stone though as to how clean the split is or even if they are splittable. Perhaps worth trying on one to see what happens.

Regardless, I'd be driven by the thicknesses rather than the overall size. Sort into groups of same thickness then excavate an area corresponding to the thickest group, lay as per Mike's suggestion then move onto the next thickness. Otherwise you'll be tearing your hair out excavating a little bit to that depth to match that stone, another little bit to a different depth to match this stone.
Fewer Smart things. More smart people.
User avatar
RogerS
Sequoia
 
Posts: 6394
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Nearly finished. OK OK...call me Pinocchio.
Name:

Re: How to lay a path... Help required

Postby Doug » 07 Nov 2019, 16:14

I realise that Rog but I’d still & have laid stone of varying thickness the same as I’ve said just making up the thickness with mortar, it might take more mortar but starting on a flat surface is key for me. Start with the thickest pieces on a thin bed then make up the thickness of rest with mortar.
Also the strength of the thinner pieces is reinforced with the thicker bed.
Doug
Nordic Pine
 
Posts: 971
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 22:22
Location: Location Location
Name:

Re: How to lay a path... Help required

Postby RogerS » 07 Nov 2019, 18:06

Doug wrote:I realise that Rog but I’d still & have laid stone of varying thickness the same as I’ve said just making up the thickness with mortar, it might take more mortar but starting on a flat surface is key for me. Start with the thickest pieces on a thin bed then make up the thickness of rest with mortar.
Also the strength of the thinner pieces is reinforced with the thicker bed.


I take your point, Doug but surely it will depend on just how many stones he has at 5". Because that's a s***load of concrete to fill in to bring that flat surface up to the level needed to bed a stone 1.5" thick.

Or maybe I've been watching too many dry stone wallers :lol:

Untitled.png
(621.67 KiB)
Fewer Smart things. More smart people.
User avatar
RogerS
Sequoia
 
Posts: 6394
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Nearly finished. OK OK...call me Pinocchio.
Name:

Re: How to lay a path... Help required

Postby Doug » 07 Nov 2019, 18:41

Yebbut I’d cut the 5” thick ones to get 3 out of those.
Doug
Nordic Pine
 
Posts: 971
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 22:22
Location: Location Location
Name:

Re: How to lay a path... Help required

Postby RogerS » 07 Nov 2019, 18:42

Doug wrote:Yebbut I’d cut the 5” thick ones to get 3 out of those.


s'wot I said as well :lol:
Fewer Smart things. More smart people.
User avatar
RogerS
Sequoia
 
Posts: 6394
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Nearly finished. OK OK...call me Pinocchio.
Name:

Re: How to lay a path... Help required

Postby TrimTheKing » 07 Nov 2019, 18:50

Cheers chaps. What would I cut them with? The thickest one is approximately 30” x 18” and weighs a bloody ton!

Thy are also natural edges not square so at best I would have two usable faces and not 3.

Take the point about using them per thickness to make the digging easier though, thanks.
Cheers
Mark
TrimTheKing
Site Admin
 
Posts: 4361
Joined: 16 Jun 2014, 13:27
Location: Grappenhall, Cheshire
Name: Mark

Re: How to lay a path... Help required

Postby SamQ aka Ah! Q! » 07 Nov 2019, 22:11

Gawd, I thought my windows were boggin'...Roger has made me feel SO much better... :eusa-whistle:

Sam
SamQ aka Ah! Q!
New Shoots
 
Posts: 156
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 23:06
Name:

Re: How to lay a path... Help required

Postby RogerS » 07 Nov 2019, 22:27

TrimTheKing wrote:Cheers chaps. What would I cut them with? The thickest one is approximately 30” x 18” and weighs a bloody ton!

Thy are also natural edges not square so at best I would have two usable faces and not 3.

Take the point about using them per thickness to make the digging easier though, thanks.


Depends on what the stone is. Some stone will split with a simple bolster chisel and a bit of muscle. Ah...OK...see where you're coming from :lol:
Fewer Smart things. More smart people.
User avatar
RogerS
Sequoia
 
Posts: 6394
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Nearly finished. OK OK...call me Pinocchio.
Name:

Re: How to lay a path... Help required

Postby RogerS » 07 Nov 2019, 22:30

SamQ aka Ah! Q! wrote:Gawd, I thought my windows were boggin'...Roger has made me feel SO much better... :eusa-whistle:

Sam


Sorry, Sam....would it help if I showed the third one ? :D

Image
Fewer Smart things. More smart people.
User avatar
RogerS
Sequoia
 
Posts: 6394
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Nearly finished. OK OK...call me Pinocchio.
Name:

Re: How to lay a path... Help required

Postby TrimTheKing » 08 Nov 2019, 00:59

RogerS wrote:
TrimTheKing wrote:Cheers chaps. What would I cut them with? The thickest one is approximately 30” x 18” and weighs a bloody ton!

Thy are also natural edges not square so at best I would have two usable faces and not 3.

Take the point about using them per thickness to make the digging easier though, thanks.


Depends on what the stone is. Some stone will split with a simple bolster chisel and a bit of muscle. Ah...OK...see where you're coming from :lol:


Haha. They’re York stone which I think is a kind of sandstone, which is splittable by stonemasons but I’m not sure I’d like to risk totalling one...
Cheers
Mark
TrimTheKing
Site Admin
 
Posts: 4361
Joined: 16 Jun 2014, 13:27
Location: Grappenhall, Cheshire
Name: Mark

Re: How to lay a path... Help required

Postby RogerS » 08 Nov 2019, 07:18

What are you ? Man or mouse ?

It's easy....even I can do it.



Lateral thinking...any stone yard near you - large or small...for some beer money, they'd either do it by hand or on their machine.
Fewer Smart things. More smart people.
User avatar
RogerS
Sequoia
 
Posts: 6394
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Nearly finished. OK OK...call me Pinocchio.
Name:

Re: How to lay a path... Help required

Postby TrimTheKing » 08 Nov 2019, 11:11

Haha. Something I would definitely try but not right now.

I’ll have a look at stone yards, that’s a good idea. Will probably just crack on as I am though and organise them into like depths and go from there.

I’ll let you know when I start...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Cheers
Mark
TrimTheKing
Site Admin
 
Posts: 4361
Joined: 16 Jun 2014, 13:27
Location: Grappenhall, Cheshire
Name: Mark

Re: How to lay a path... Help required

Postby SamQ aka Ah! Q! » 08 Nov 2019, 19:45

Cross thread conversation, part two, "Sorry Trim!"...

Roger, I have just completed some aggressive wall sanding. Believe me, when I used the garden blower to evacuate the worst of the dust out through the patio doors, it left my entire bungalow's windows in Ess Hiach One Tee order...

So, I majored in hypocrisy, yes, but I was also indoctrinated, many years ago, in the blunt art of 'slagging', by some of the most perceptive, quick-witted individuals on the planet...Derrymen. Said bad habits die hard, but I try to puckish and naughty, rather than ascerbic and provocative as they were.

Your view looks smashing. Mine is presently filled by this autumn's first strutting, noisy, puffed-up-on- testosterone pheasant...daft feathered twerp.

Sam
SamQ aka Ah! Q!
New Shoots
 
Posts: 156
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 23:06
Name:

Re: How to lay a path... Help required

Postby RogerS » 08 Nov 2019, 20:19

SamQ aka Ah! Q! wrote:....
Your view looks smashing. Mine is presently filled by this autumn's first strutting, noisy, puffed-up-on- testosterone pheasant...daft feathered twerp.

Sam


Thanks Sam. We also have our tame resident pheasants and I am embargoed from adding them to the freezer ! I can live with that as my builder dropped round six wild duck, four pheasant and four partridge from his shoot and more to come !

Mind you, the Sika deer's days are numbered :twisted:
Fewer Smart things. More smart people.
User avatar
RogerS
Sequoia
 
Posts: 6394
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Nearly finished. OK OK...call me Pinocchio.
Name:

Re: How to lay a path... Help required

Postby oddsocks » 15 Nov 2019, 01:00

Mark, this probably isnt directly relevant to your path, but I have recently done a 50 sqm patio (partly why I've not been on this site recently!) using 'patio packs' of sandstone in 4 sizes. I found lots of advice from http://www.pavingexpert.com/ and paid to have a random paving plan done (approx £70) as my layout is an odd shape and i had a set amount of each size. http://www.pavingexpert.com/random02.htm

I thought I could design the layout myself - but that was probably the best value £70 of the project (that includes a 30p /sq m uplift for project packs as the computer algorithm need human intervention). you cna specify all the slab sizes, qty and gaps.

Dave
User avatar
oddsocks
New Shoots
 
Posts: 107
Joined: 04 May 2015, 13:29
Location: Haverhill Suffolk
Name: Dave

Re: How to lay a path... Help required

Postby TrimTheKing » 15 Nov 2019, 10:38

oddsocks wrote:Mark, this probably isnt directly relevant to your path, but I have recently done a 50 sqm patio (partly why I've not been on this site recently!) using 'patio packs' of sandstone in 4 sizes. I found lots of advice from http://www.pavingexpert.com/ and paid to have a random paving plan done (approx £70) as my layout is an odd shape and i had a set amount of each size. http://www.pavingexpert.com/random02.htm

I thought I could design the layout myself - but that was probably the best value £70 of the project (that includes a 30p /sq m uplift for project packs as the computer algorithm need human intervention). you cna specify all the slab sizes, qty and gaps.

Dave


Thanks Dave
Cheers
Mark
TrimTheKing
Site Admin
 
Posts: 4361
Joined: 16 Jun 2014, 13:27
Location: Grappenhall, Cheshire
Name: Mark


Return to The Woodmangler's Retreat

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron