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The builder's are coming - floorboard laying

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Re: The builder's are coming ....

Postby Andyp » 21 Mar 2017, 10:59

Must be short of work :D
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Re: The builder's are coming ....

Postby RogerS » 21 Mar 2017, 11:31

Andyp wrote:Must be short of work :D


That was my initial thought as well but as it happened he's got 11 guys working for him and one job finished. So the gaffer plus one came yesterday to start. Today we have Plus One and another lad.

Busy day though as the surveyor is here scoping out the water table work with a couple of specialists companies.
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Re: The builder's are coming ....

Postby RogerS » 22 Mar 2017, 16:39

Close of play..Monday. Not bad for a couple of guys. Kitchen starting to be cleared out, walls removed.

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Close of play..Tuesday. All the joists up, keeping the sink going a while longer. The old arch was flattened at the top..they got it wrong and so the new arch in the old place will be a proper arch shape. New arch starting to go in to form the corridor to the downstairs WC and utility....too many doors opening off from the downstairs hall. The new arch will be slightly narrower and shorter otherwise it will look too much like the side of a railway tunnel!

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The damp patch on the floor is where one of the guys sawed through a central heating pipe :o

When they started investigating where the new arch is going, we were all rather bemused as to why there is a double skin with an empty void. I'm thinking that the RH side forms a very convenient alcove to put my gun cabinet.
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Not only that, further on up above is a hefty steel lintel and a third skin on top of it.

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Meanwhile Yours Truly has been taking apart the downstairs windows to get the measurements for the sashes and rather intrigued to find the back of this stone mullion machined by the look of things to form the correct angle to take the window frames.

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Have to confess it's rather good having men in although the urge to pick up a hammer is irresistible at times. Of course i have to from time to time to work out how the house has been put together so I can work out the best way for pipes the-routing-thereof.

One downside of this project, and I don't know if Mike had the same problem, but waking up at, say, 3am for a trip to the loo, you only have to have a momentary house thought and, Bang !!!, that's that...you might as well get up. Notepads by the side of the bed don't really help.
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Re: The builder's are coming ....

Postby RogerS » 22 Mar 2017, 18:20

Forgot to add that the gaffer called me last night to explain the plan for the next couple of days as he wasn't on site Tuesday. :eusa-clap:

Close of play...Wednesday

Moved upstairs to tackle a couple of rooms, removing one stud wall between two bedrooms to be reinstated as a larger bedroom and ensuite to another bedroom.

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Found an original Georgian fire surround behind the stud. Not too sure what to do about it as it has been vandalised by previous owners/builders by bricking up the hole and drilling into the stone surround.

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Suggestions welcome.

Recovered the studding from the partition that was knocked down. Same size as the joists in the kitchen and so can be reused where necessary in the kitchen. Waste not....

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Evidence of a fire in the past

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And these holes were used to support joists in the original Georgian house. Pretty sizable.

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And here is todays' conundrum. The studs have been built on top of the chipboard floor but I want to replace the chipboard floor with proper oak floorboards. I don't want to put the oak floorboards directly on top of the chipboard because (a) the original builder has already cocked up the height levels in this room and there is a step up into the room at the door threshold. Adding 20mm of oak can only make it worse. (b) no idea what lies beneath the chipboard...probably no wires..they seem to run round the perimeter but could be some CH pipes.

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Any ideas ?

Electrician coming in a couple of days time to chase the wall for the kitchen units, lay cable for the island unit and some SWA for feeding outside. I could do a lot of checking as to what you can/can't do but it really is so much easier getting a professional in. Especially at the day rates they charge up here.
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Re: The builder's are coming ....

Postby TrimTheKing » 22 Mar 2017, 19:04

Cut vertically down the face of the floor plates, through the chipboard, with a fein or similar (I think you have one...). That way you can pull out the chipboard and lay the replacement up to it.

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Re: The builder's are coming ....

Postby Robert » 22 Mar 2017, 22:30

Maybe cut with a depth set circular saw a couple of inches away from the studding so you can get the bulk of the boards up. Then you can see what is underneath and know if you need to be careful when close cutting afterwards.
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Re: The builder's are coming ....

Postby Mike G » 23 Mar 2017, 10:22

Great stage of the project, where an awful lot of change happens in very short order.

In no particular order:

- I'd not attempt to cut into the chipboard hard up against the studwork until you have sight of what lies underneath. This means removing all the whole boards you can from the floor, and if they're nailed down, you'll just have to bust them up prising them out. Getting a start is the hard part.

- My view of the fire is to forget it. It's not special, and you'll lose more heat through the chimney and the loss of insulation than you'll gain from the fire. When you re-board those studs, don't forget to use foil-backed P/b.

-Have you done a proper drawing? The mystery of the double blockwork and the RSJ would be immediately solved if you could see it on an accurate drawing.

-Where is that fire damage? It seems bizarre that it would be between an external wall and the dry lining.
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Re: The builder's are coming ....

Postby RogerS » 23 Mar 2017, 12:19

Thanks chaps. I wondered about using the Fein where Mark suggested but, like Robert, would be more comfortable knowing what's underneath. After all it could be the chipboard holding the studding up!

Mike, I agree about the fireplace.

No drawing and nor is there likely to be, TBH, since much is hidden behind studwork and plasterboard. We've had both the surveyor and the builder looking at it.
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Re: The builder's are coming ....

Postby Mike G » 23 Mar 2017, 16:41

How about just drawing that small part of it? Measure from a common known point upstairs and downstairs, and that way you'll know just exactly what sits on top of the steel and the "extra" blockwork.
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Re: The builder's are coming ....

Postby Deejay » 23 Mar 2017, 16:59

If the joists run at ninety degrees to the stud wall, cut out about a foot square on the corner of a board.
Get a decent torch and shine it between the joists onto the wall. A mirror held at 45 degrees will show what's under there.

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Re: The builder's are coming ....

Postby RogerS » 23 Mar 2017, 17:17

Mike G wrote:How about just drawing that small part of it? Measure from a common known point upstairs and downstairs, and that way you'll know just exactly what sits on top of the steel and the "extra" blockwork.


That's a good idea.

This picture might go someway to explaining it as the opening with the oak beams (rh bottom) is the part of the wall in question.

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Re: The builder's are coming ....

Postby Mike G » 23 Mar 2017, 17:56

So it is an opening through the original external wall of the house into a newer outshot? That external wall being a rubble stone wall?
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Re: The builder's are coming ....

Postby RogerS » 23 Mar 2017, 18:01

Mike G wrote:So it is an opening through the original external wall of the house into a newer outshot? That external wall being a rubble stone wall?


The opening was part of the old house. They then at some point in the past (1979 I believe) added a kitchen extension as part of the refurbishment/rebuild. I'm thinking that they saw that great big hole and said 'We need to do something about that".
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Re: The builder's are coming ....

Postby RogerS » 23 Mar 2017, 18:24

More revelations. An old window from the original building

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and also much better access to where all the mains wiring is going. I also think that given the depth away from the wall, I might be able to fit my ceiling heat recycling pipe in.

And at the West wall, another 12 " of hidden space which is great because I can move the toilet back and also pick up the pipes easily for the hot/cold to feed the new kitchen sink.
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Upstairs I have always wondered why the floor levels were all to cock and I now see why.

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That steel goes all the way to the South wall and sits on a bressumer over the bay window. (It's top of picture underneath the thin packer). They messed up the levels or the front of the house has dropped and tipped the end up :o Whatever, I have to accept it.

You can also see one of the original very thick internal walls, running N-S in the picture, which unfortunately sits exactly where I was hoping to hide one of those under-unit heaters that Doug recommended.

I have a sense that the other joists haven't been laid that well. But at least they run the right way to take the recycled boards from the kitchen.

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Re: The builder's are coming ....

Postby Mike G » 23 Mar 2017, 19:19

Is that micro-bore heating pipe?

You're quickly going to run into the "where do I stop?" question on this project.
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Re: The builder's are coming ....

Postby RogerS » 23 Mar 2017, 19:24

LOL...no, I know where that point is.

No, normal 15mm pipe.
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Re: The builder's are coming ....

Postby Mike G » 23 Mar 2017, 19:49

Phew.....
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Re: The builder's are coming ....

Postby RogerS » 25 Mar 2017, 07:26

Any suggestions as to best way to cut the Kingspan to fit between the joists? The boards are starting out at 1.2m x 2.4m. I thought about getting a bandsaw but the throat would need to be 14-15" which pushes up the price too much to justify. Having said that I know of an old used one with a 17" throat.

Festool TS55 and track overlaid on a sheet of Kingspan doesn't give enough depth of cut (c. 100mm max) ?

Or accept a bit of wastage, cut the larger sheet into standard widths that just cover the vertical studs, hold in place and cut with a hand saw down the joist?

Speed of work is of the essence.
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Re: The builder's are coming ....

Postby Mike G » 25 Mar 2017, 08:15

Old handsaw, or a £5 jack saw from your local builder's merchant. You'll also learn the skill of marking parallel to an edge using a retractable tape measure. There really is no other way.
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Re: The builder's are coming ....

Postby Andyp » 25 Mar 2017, 10:00

If you really did not want to do it by hand then a sabre saw would give you the depth of cut. Not sure how easy to cut in a straight line though.
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Re: The builder's are coming ....

Postby RogerS » 25 Mar 2017, 10:28

I'm not doing it :D Just want to find a way to speed up thems' what are doing it.

My reasoning behind splitting the boards down to 'nearly there' sizing is because 1.2m x 2.4m boards are so unmanageable and needs two people.
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Re: The builder's are coming ....

Postby RogerS » 25 Mar 2017, 14:44

Mike G wrote:.....
-Where is that fire damage? It seems bizarre that it would be between an external wall and the dry lining.


Mike, I omitted to answer this one. Apparently the flue from the log burner used to go up inside one of the house flues. In those days (2000 maybe?), there were no liners, I believe, or if there were they didn't bother. The chimney caught fire and I am guessing that there must have been a hole in the flue that let flames out to ignite the studding. Having said that I cannot find any obvious sign of a hole.

With regard to taking up the chipboard I have it sussed. Festool TS55 and track set to just above final depth. I will be unlucky if they have chiselled out the chipboard to accommodate a pipe or wire and looking at all the existing uncovered joists, they have followed best practice. Then gently cut the last 0.5mm with the Fein wide blade. Lift up board. Job done.
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The builder's are coming ....

Postby Rod » 25 Mar 2017, 14:55

I watched a new very large building being built whilst I was in hospital where they clad the outside with Kingspan. (New Cancer Research Centre)
They just used a handsaw - went through it like butter.

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Re: The builder's are coming ....

Postby RogerS » 28 Mar 2017, 16:15

:( No-one from the builders have been here since Thursday. Friday was planned for but then he had a minor accident at the weekend. Hopefully here tomorrow while we are off looking at tiles and granite worktops. Well, LOML is looking at tiles and granite worktops, I'm just standing there pretending to look interested. ;)
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Re: The builder's are coming ....

Postby Rod » 28 Mar 2017, 17:31

That's the way, go with the flow!

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