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The builder's are coming - floorboard laying

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Re: The builder's are coming - Utterly demoralised

Postby RogerS » 03 Dec 2017, 11:28

Robert wrote:We are all guessing and wishing we could help so you have some moral support even if it is not any real help :)

My 2p is to make a drawing of the pipe system. It might help you (and us) diagnose what is happening.


I've tried making a drawing of the pipework this morning but a lot of it is now hidden. I think, as I mentioned to Mike, that his son has not put in a closed loop.
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Re: The builder's are coming - Who's the Daddy ?

Postby RogerS » 03 Dec 2017, 13:03

Yee har ! :eusa-dance: :eusa-dance:

Who's the Daddy ? When in doubt, apply 2 Bar of garden hose to remove a massive airlock. We have the beginnings of heat :D
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Re: The builder's are coming - Utterly demoralised

Postby 9fingers » 03 Dec 2017, 13:09

I wonder if there are some tests you can do say with compressed air to indicate where dead legs are to help prove your thesis?
Maybe your up stairs rads are effectively not connected to the circuit.

Pushing air into an upstairs rad should make this obvious, If air escapes into the header tank then it is connected but possibly airlocked, If the pressure keeps rising then the upstairs is a disconnected loop and if the pressure does not build at all and does not exit to the tank then it is an open circuit but not connected.

Obviously keep the pressure to a maximum of say 15psi -1bar to avoid damage.

You might also find what is going on by connecting modest (via a pressure regulator) water pressure back through a drain cock to persuade water into the upper circuit.

As Robert said I'm sure we are all rooting for you and want to try and help, trouble is you are so bl00dy far away.

Good Luck
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Re: The builder's are coming - Who's the Daddy ?

Postby 9fingers » 03 Dec 2017, 13:11

Posts crossed!

Glad you are making some progress Roger!

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Re: The builder's are coming - Who's the Daddy ?

Postby Doug » 03 Dec 2017, 14:14

It’s uaually air Rog.
If you have to drain down again I’d suggest before re-filling the system you turn off all rad valves, then turn on the water, on each rad open one valve & bleed the rad until water is drawn through the valve, shut the valve & do the same on the other valve, then re-open the first valve.

If you do this with each rad you will have drawn water through both flow & return pipes to every rad & so reduce greatly the likelihood of an air lock.
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Re: The builder's are coming - Who's the Daddy ?

Postby Andyp » 03 Dec 2017, 14:19

RogerS wrote:Yee har ! :eusa-dance: :eusa-dance:

Who's the Daddy ? When in doubt, apply 2 Bar of garden hose to remove a massive airlock. We have the beginnings of heat :D


Good news Roger. I said you luck will change. :text-bravo:
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Re: The builder's are coming - Who's the Daddy ?

Postby Coley » 03 Dec 2017, 14:54

This is slightly off topic, but I know someone who drained their radiator system to do some work on the rads. They refilled the system but had a few issues so had to call out the plumber. Turns out they refilled it from the wrong point and the boiler had no water inside where it was meant to. The plumber said it was lucky it didn't wreck it completely by over heating. Glad you're making progress. Its never nice when things don't go to plan.

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Re: The builder's are coming - Who's the Daddy ?

Postby RogerS » 03 Dec 2017, 15:09

Andyp wrote:
RogerS wrote:Yee har ! :eusa-dance: :eusa-dance:

Who's the Daddy ? When in doubt, apply 2 Bar of garden hose to remove a massive airlock. We have the beginnings of heat :D


Good news Roger. I said you luck will change. :text-bravo:


Sorry, Andy....I spoke too soon. CH still not circulating. Given up.
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Re: The builder's are coming - Who's the Daddy ?

Postby Andyp » 03 Dec 2017, 16:22

Sorry about that Rog. Have you plenty of logs for the fire?
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Re: The builder's are coming - Who's the Daddy ?

Postby Deejay » 03 Dec 2017, 18:27

Evening all

Bob - You might also find what is going on by connecting modest (via a pressure regulator) water pressure back through a drain cock to persuade water into the upper circuit.

In my first house I had one (downstairs fed from above) rad that I could only ever fill from the MT cock, i.e. backwards.

Roger - It might take more than one attempt, and subsequent bleeds as the air comes out of the water.

Does the boiler heat your DHW?

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Re: The builder's are coming - Who's the Daddy ?

Postby RogerS » 03 Dec 2017, 19:43

I have full radiators now. Just that there is no circulation via the pump. It seems to be running. But nothing coming up from the heat store.

There is a major impact on this..especially if the plumber has cocked up. The potential access to the pipes to fix whatever is under the en-suite floor. Which means it can't be tiled - in case. So no washing facilities. OR bog. Could divert my energies into the bathroom or other en-suite (there's posh!) but if my tiler isn't coming back before Christmas...............

Have reached a decision though. Unless he comes back to me tomorrow then I'll tell him to shove it. Too many dependencies and frankly, my head is spinning.
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Re: The builder's are coming - Who's the Daddy ?

Postby Coley » 04 Dec 2017, 09:15

Have you made contact with the plumber yet ?

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Re: The builder's are coming - Who's the Daddy ?

Postby RogerS » 04 Dec 2017, 09:20

Coley wrote:Have you made contact with the plumber yet ?

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Sent some texts over the weekend but no reply...which I guess is fair enough...waiting to see what today brings.
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Re: The builder's are coming - Who's the Daddy ?

Postby RogerS » 04 Dec 2017, 12:42

Spoke to the plumber this morning on the phone. We ran through all the obvious but drew a blank. He's hopefully coming out later today.

But then I decided to double check the pump isolating valves and found that the top one had a 'false' open position. It had the initial tightness as you undid it, then it went loose and then after a couple of turns tightened up leaving you to think that it was fully open. It wasn't !

So now got circulation but I still want him to come out as I don't think that the pump is man enough for the house At maximum setting I'm losing nearly 25 degrees C between leaving the heat store ad arriving at the pump before it gets to be sent anywhere useful. All the pipes between heat store and pump are well lagged..and no different to how the CH system was when we first arrived...indeed, I found quite a few lengths that had no insulation on them and/or replaced the original with more modern stuff.
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Re: The builder's are coming - Who's the Daddy ?

Postby Deejay » 04 Dec 2017, 13:18

Afternoon Roger

Deep joy. Is everything now bled?

Cheers

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Re: The builder's are coming - Who's the Daddy ?

Postby RogerS » 04 Dec 2017, 17:34

Deejay wrote:Afternoon Roger

Deep joy. Is everything now bled?

Cheers

Dave


Hi Dave

Yup..apart from one downstairs that refuses to heat up. Must be another airlock. I have an adapter - courtesy of Bob (9fingers) that lets me connect a mains hose pipe into where the bleed screw goes so I can force in water under pressure but the bleed vale sizes are different. need to make an adapter up...rummage in the plumbing bits box.

Apart from that we are a toasty 17 degrees upstairs :D :eusa-dance:
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Re: The builder's are coming - Mmmmm,,,,toastie

Postby Andyp » 04 Dec 2017, 17:56

So was it just airloacks then Roger? What did the plumber have to say?

Pleased you got it sorted.
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Re: The builder's are coming - Mmmmm,,,,toastie

Postby RogerS » 04 Dec 2017, 18:08

Andyp wrote:So was it just airloacks then Roger? What did the plumber have to say?

Pleased you got it sorted.


Some was an airlock. Also compared to my last place the feed pipe is a measly 15mm and so a slower fill than 22mm. And getting the air out of the system helped.

The plumber went through the things that I'd already checked...albeit getting caught by that isolation valve.

Need to go round bleeding the rads ... a couple are angled the wrong way but the fixings don't allow for any fine adjustment. And there is that one last one that needs the hose-pipe treatment but I need some adapters.

Next up is to give the tiler the heave-ho since he's not come back to me and he does have 'form' in this area. I have to have pegs in the ground. My builders coming round tonight to bring me some freshly shot ducks and pheasants. Will ask him if the first tiler we used is back on the scene. Other than that, I was Googling water lubricated electric tile cutters for 800mm tiles and see Scheppach do one. Should be able to get PayPal 0% credit so may end up doing it myself. I can do it. I hate it but I do make a decent fist of it. Once it's done eBay it.
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Re: The builder's are coming - Mmmmm,,,,toastie

Postby will1983 » 15 Dec 2017, 10:46

I bought the Wickes own brand water supressed tile saw when I did our bathroom, got it on offer at about £30 then sold it on FB once I'd finished for £25. Not bad for £5 and served me well for the couple of dozen tiles I needed cutting.

If you go for one similar I'll give you one tip, do all your cutting outside and stand to the side as it throws an almighty amount of dusty water at you which when dried makes you look like Casper the ghost!
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Re: The builder's are coming - Mmmmm,,,,toastie

Postby Rod » 15 Dec 2017, 19:46

I bought mine from Toolstation which was a cheaper version of a professional one made by the same people.
Worked really well especially award cuts, for longer straight cuts I used a large score and snap cutter.

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Re: The builder's are coming - Mmmmm,,,,toastie

Postby RogerS » 16 Dec 2017, 11:50

Thanks for the suggestions, guys, but fortunately the original tiler is back in the frame and what a difference. Discovered more crap tiling that the original 'I've tiled for Hilton hotels' tiler did. Bit hacked off with my builder TBH as it's known that the original tiler (who is a very good plasterer) had been kicked off some tiling jobs in the past. But we are were we are. Just hope LOML won't notice them.

So where are we ? Up the proverbial without a paddle. Next Thursday the first tranche of removal items from the rental to the house takes place. Then on Dec 28th we move the rest to the house and we are committed.

Do I have any painted rooms ? Nope.

Do I have a functioning bathroom or en-suite ? Nope

Do I have a functioning kitchen ? Nope

Is the house finally clean of builders dust and detritus ? Nope


So....no pressure then :o
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Re: The builder's are coming - Mmmmm,,,,toastie

Postby Rod » 16 Dec 2017, 15:24

Portaloo and a Primus stove?
Amazing what you can achieve in 11 days!
Hope all now goes well

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Re: The builder's are coming - Mmmmm,,,,toastie

Postby Malc2098 » 16 Dec 2017, 21:56

Microwave, gas camping ring, kettle, toaster and mini oven all on the sideboard was how we cooked when we had no kitchen for several weeks.

It's amazing what you can rustle up!
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Re: The builder's are coming - Mmmmm,,,,toastie

Postby RogerS » 21 Dec 2017, 22:50

Curate's egg week so far.

Tuesday was the high spot. Got a couple of guys back to do some self-levelling in one of the rooms, help me move some stuff but more importantly finish connecting one of the en-suites to the waste system. Given that he spends most of his time doing this (waste pipes) and that it took him all day, I'm glad I got him in as it would have taken me at least two..maybe three..days.

The tiler carried on. He's OK..much better than the last bloke who I now realise has made a God-Almighty Horlicks. LOML wanted a fore-shortened wall making the recess for the shower. Fore-shortened as in no fixing at the top into the ceiling joists. When I made it and added the Tilebacker board it was vertical. But then the plastering team (also known as Tiler No 1) got involved and added the plasterboard on the other side. They didn't check for vertical. I should have. It isn't . So Tiler 1 did his thing and made a * job. Especially on the two recess walls. Result ? Top is now too narrow for the shower screen. All I can do is introduce a long spacer about 2mm over current gap width and gradually push back the top. Hoping that the tiles don't crack or fall off.

Meanwhile Tiler 2 has been doing the utility and now realise that even he has cod's it up as the washing machine rocks like buggery because the floor tiles are not that level. He moved on upstairs to do the bathroom and managed to use an entire bag of adhesive on just two effing tiles rather than ask me if I could put in some Tilebacker board to pad out the gap. And we've now run out of adhesive. Again.

His aesthetics are, well, I now realise non-existent. And then this lunchtime he tells me that he's been asked to go into where he works in the evening cleaning delivery vans for a few hours on minimum wage, to go in at 1pm as they need a lot of vans moving. A job that he is jacking in in a couple of weeks time. So he is swapping the equivalent of a guaranteed 20 hours of van washing for one days tiling to do a few hours at minimum wage.

Did he offer any apology ? Nope. So I've mulled this over and when he comes to collect his money for the three days he's worked this week I will take great pleasure in telling him to pack up his tools and go for a job involving sex and travel.

I've had it with the 'trades'. They can go take their collective fingers and swivel.
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Re: The builder's are coming - When will something go right

Postby RogerS » 23 Dec 2017, 15:57

So...SNAFU

WC...cistern leaking. Needs water sucked out and removing and reseating.

Washbasin - inoperable as this numpty ordered free flow wastes.

Shower - inoperable - see other thread.

Kitchen sink - inoperable wastes due to funny continental pipe fitting. Nothing I have here stands any chance of fitting. It's not 32mm or 1.25 or 40mm or any other combination. Now if the EU actually did something useful for once they would have a standard pipe size across the EU.

At least this time, it's taken much longer for me in terms of elapsed time compared to the last renovation to reach the point where, on arrival, I just sat in the car for an hour before summoning up the mental energy to go in.
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